RespectThis

If you think its heavily used you're beyond delusional. Its amazing how you can lie to yourself so blatantly. You're really so biased against the ntec its crazy to me. You're hurting this community more than anything. You need to really come to terms with that. Why do you see more obeyas, obirs, etc. now? Hmm what could it be? Oh right the ntec has been gutted. Shocker how that works. You think thats healthy for the game? No. The ntec is not the cancer of this game as people such as you and the op like to make it out to be. Its the clown car of balance changes to weapons. On top of that if you truly think there are more obeyas and obirs now compared to pmgs and shotguns you must be playing another game or something. The amount of people who used obir prior to any ntec change was very small. Just because of an ntec change isn't going to increase it by this margin you seem to be proposing.

Posting on a guest account about a gun thats already been beaten into the ground? Seems like a troll post to me. On the off chance this isn't a troll thread the ntec should be reverted pre-Rp weapon balancing.

To bad the biggest downside of the ACEs variants is the stk is extremely high.

You really are dense aren't you? If you've ever truly read anything i've said you'd understand that changing how a gun functions mechanically so far into its life span is a horrible idea. Why is that? Because the gun has already been given an identity. Ntec designed to be a tap fire mid/longish range AR. Now has an extreme amount of bloom when playing the gun how it should be played? Hvr doing less damage when the crosshairs are further apart? Why? Just lower the damage and not change the core mechanics of the gun. Also in regards to the pmg its been fine. Everyone just complains about it now because all the other "op" weapons have been "justifiably" nerfed. When in reality the pmg isn't really that op. Annoying? Yes. Op? Far from it.

As i have said many times before. They should just revert a handful of the weapons back to pre RP last breath nerfs and work from there. Adding stupid mechanics to guns hurts this game more than anything. And the lack of any sort of weapon trinity/jenga tower hurts this game even more. The "fun" mechanic of the hvr now with you doing more damage when your cross hair closes is just stupid. No one wants that. Why change how a gun functions 9 years into its life span? Same with the ntec. Both RP and LO are rather lost it would seem when it comes to making things "balanced", "adjusted", or "fun".

Imagine making multiple threads (not specifically this op) about nerfing this and that. Nerfing everything doesn't solve anything. As i said in another thread when you break the weapon balance of the game things are going to be all over the place. Thats the ONLY reason the pmg seems like its broken is because everything is in such disarray from what it use to be.

Frags have never been an issue. They have been the same for the past 9 years. Why is this all of a sudden an issue? Maybe because of the nerf to yolos people are switching over to normal frags? Don't call for a nerf to it just because you're frustrated over it. Yes nades can be annoying but they are by no means broken. Pretty much what cookie said here ^ The only thing that is frustrating to me in the category of nades are percs. That includes before and after the yolo nerf which i though was also a poor change (they should have just lowered the nade count to 2).

Just because it can doesn't mean it can do it effectively. Alot of people have tried and failed to use it in cqc on a daily basis. Either A. The player using the Ntec has learned how to use the weapon in cqc situations and how to gain an advantage over a cqc player. B. The person using cqc is poor at using the oca/pmg. If the players are on the same skill level then the Oca/pmg is going to win. The Oca and the PMG are modified to excel in these ranges where as the ntec isn't. Like i said there is as difference between the ntec can kill as fast and does kill as fast. Just because it can doesn't make it an issue.

Thats not even close to why. You really can't read the room.

Obviously it has to have backing. My point is that alot of these average and new players give alot of the same complaints which lead to this backing. These players are also dethreaters... Do i think the average player ruins the game? No. Do I think them constantly arguing nerf this nerf that because x,y,z is ruining the game? Yes. Like the frag blast radius being to high? Why is that all of a sudden a problem? It has been the same for literally 9 years. Now more people are calling for the pmg to be nerfed because the ntec and other weapons has been slapped around so much. Why do you assume that it will increase other players enjoy-ability even if its at the cost of some vets enjoy-ability. You realize a majority of APB is holding on due to vets NOT new players. Look at Flaws. He's been around for quite sometime and he's getting fed up as well. Its not that we don't like change. Its when the changes are unreasonable because the average player dislikes it. APB isn't your normal everyday fps shooter. The playstyle is different. I don't think people really grasp that idea either. Or the fact that people are just better than they are. I don't like that fact that you QS and used HB. I think it makes you an absolute hypocrite and discredits your backing of sportmanlike gameplay. The fact that you felt that you NEEDED to do it is rather smh.

You first sentence could have been stated much better. You think new players suggesting nerfs isn't always a bad thing? Thats a terrible approach. New players shouldn't be coming into the game, crying nerf, and the company following. Why would i want little timmy who got beaten to be dictating the direction of the game. Yes i understand that the game wants new players but nerfing things because new players want it that way while the vets have to suffer? Thats just silly. And your "cluster fk" just sounds like you're saying ntec with another word. Vets get upset about useless and unnecessary changes. Why do you think I bring this up or Abduct or Flaws. You think we're doing it for kicks? I enjoy apb alot but these changes due to these average and new players ONLY hurts the game. You want the game to be sportsman like yet you abused quickswitching and heavy barrel on the ntec the two things you were against? Funny and hypocritical.

Borus please don't be that guy who's going to bring up "was the 80m nano broken". You're smart enough to distinguish the difference between strong and flat out broken. I am being honest when i say it didn't give any sort of advantage in most situations. The ntec was a strong weapon for sure but not broken or op. Also my point is proven just by looking at the front page of social district forums. "Nerf frag nade radius" or "When is the pmg getting a nerf". The majority of the people yelling "nerf" are typically average to low skill level players. They think they know what is "broken" when i reality they don't. They just get beaten by good players and just start crying nerf. Thats what happened with the ntec. Good players would beat people in cqc because they would do things to give them the advantage.

So like i said in another post. There is a huge difference between a high skill ntec users, a good ntec user, and a bad ntec user. The general consensus is a vast pool. Between high skill, average, and low skill players. A large majority being mid to low range players. You were NEVER required to run any of these weapons to win. Just because they're considered much better doesn't mean they are the be all end all. Don't say just because they're strong means they're broken.

They were the Holy Trinity because they were the strongest of their class not because they were broken....

I agree with there definitely being a huge difference between a skilled ntec player and a average one. Strange people think that anyone wielding an ntec all preform the same. Not only is the current weapon trajectory extremely poor but the "holy trinity" isn't much of a thing anymore (Pmg/Oca, Hvr, and Ntec). Which in my opinion really disrupts the balance of things. Its really more of a Jenga tower. The ntec was in the middle and kept getting pulled on and pulled on until it was pull out and everything collapsed on each other leaving weapons in disarray. The AR class is almost non-existent. Shotguns are being buffed and nerfed. Now we're at pmg and percs (woo hoo). Also can't say im surprised people still complain about it since as you said there are "those people" who will always witch hunt it until its presence is as known as the oden.

He isn't just talking about you. He talking about players like yourself. Your argument points have been very over exaggerated. Such as 70m dominating Ntec or that the ntec dominates in cqc no matter what which was NEVER the case. You're making very extreme and illogical arguments is what i believe is the point flaws is trying to get across. He, abduct, and I have put alot of time in the game to perform things like killing poeple in cqc efficiently with the ntec. You just sound upset that you lost to in in cqc because its an assault rifle and someone who put time into the ntec outplayed you.

Better watch out there bud, gonna hurt some feelings. You're 100% correct and thats also what i've tried saying time and time again. Multiple QQ posts on X weapon leads to weapon changes. Community moves to the next gun. QQ posts on X weapon. Rinse and repeat.

Im talking about after the AR buffs not before because those are current. Its not really the responsibility of the vets to teach new players how to play the game. Ya sure i dont mind helping them but its not a requirement. Even before any ntec change (hb2 one) players might have knowledge on how to use it and were still mediocre at best. Hence why people are gold, silver, etc. Not that rank really means something but you get my point. When i first started i never used the ntec. I only started using it after maining the obeya for a good chuck of obt. I wasn't that great with the ntec when i first started. But i learned from facing people. Also the reason i started using CJ3 on my ntec is because of Blackout (an older player). Half of apb is learning these things. Plus when i first grasped the understanding on how to use the gun i put it to practiced and found the most optimal way to use it. But to master it at the levels that people complain about isn't just a one day thing. To be honest at the end of the day what keeps APB afloat in my opinion is the vets. Not the newbies. Yes you can spray the atac but you get more value out of tap firing. Same goes for the Aces Rifle. you can spray it but it excels in tap-firing.

You really don't have to put ALOT more effort into them. I really think you're stretching the "effort" for them. Yes you have to play differently then the ntec obviously because they aren't the ntec. They aren't revolving around mid range combat. But they aren't so trash that you have to sweat bullets to make them work. The ntec isn't "easy" based on the vast majority of people who can't use it correctly in the past 9 years of my APB experience. Also im not dismissing other weapons because they aren't "easy". Don't assume thats the case. I even said that i still use them. I enjoy guns like the Aces Rifle and the Adder. The Aces Rifle being one of my favorite guns. These newer ARs just need more tuning. Ntec was fine before. Then new ARs are released in a disastrous state. Now the ntec is just a growing problem when it wasn't before.

I'm aware LO didn't touch that mechanic. Its not a matter of what LO touched and didn't touch. Its the ntec in general not just what LO has done as i said in my previous post. You're also assuming the same thing as Fortune Runner where i specifically said to him "...nor do i think most players are on the forums..". I dont think that forum pop equals online pop. It still represents how some players feel. They wouldn't have to be ntec clones just because the ntec would be used as the basis for the creation of them. You take part of the ntec and focus on said part. Or see where the ntec lacks and focus more on that i.e the atac. Ya im well aware you have to be careful of intersecting of niches and what not. Unfortunately for apbs case thats pretty difficult to do. They (being LO and RP) definitely witch hunted the ntec. Just because something else got buffed doesn't negate that fact. As i also stated in my other post which is why Cookie and I both like the ntec is because it felt good to use. Why do you think people use things in games like that. Its like playing a specific character in league of legends or smash bros. Because they're fun and enjoyable. Other ARs dont have that feeling. -Misery -Adder -Aces Rifle -Star -Far -Issr-a -Old Glory All of these guns either feel clunky or they just potato. It doesn't stop me specifically from using them but others aren't going to want to access them. Not to mention you have to keep in mind alot of these weapons were locked behind a paywall for some time. Along with joker tickets not being as easily accessible after the nerf to them in FC and the weapons only being rentals. So that also accounts for alot of ntec usage. As i said if they make the guns more appealing and enjoyable to use then it would increase the AR pool. Now the ntec is hurting and people are revolving around pmg, shotguns, and percs.

You seem to make strange assumptions. -Never said nor do i think most players are on the forums let alone comment on them. I was just using it to show how people feel about weapon adjustments around the ntec. -I use the ntec to "crutch" -Think a gun being to unbalance is balanced Im not even sure what your second bullet is suppose to really mean so i'll assume you mean "thinks a gun that is versatile is balanced". There's nothing wrong with a weapon having versatility. It doesn't make it broken. By that logic the dmr is broken because it has a high rof, high damage at extreme range, and very high hard damage. Crutch features? The way the gun has been since launch aren't "features" its just the gun being the gun. How the gun plays mechanically is not a feature. What about it do i want back thats a crutch? Being rewarded for tap firing correctly? What a crutch that is. If you're atleast going to accuse me of things could you atleast try and describe what exactly you mean. You also claimed not to "be that guy" but you constantly refer to me using a crutch even though i've said multiple times its not a crutch. Oh well i guess.

Yes the bloom mechanic was the last breath from RP ~2yrs ago. That thread was in regards to it. The same thread where i also stated they should revert it back because it was a poor design choice. Funny enough nerfing ntec any further was the least voted for out of the 169 people. Regardless of that, the changes being tied together only further hurt it. In regards to another comment you made about other AR's being buffed/nerfing the ntec. As i said in the thread i linked those weapons (new assault rifles) should have had the ntec as a basis when being created. When RP implemented these weapons they did nothing. The didn't stand out. I'm sure you can agree with me when i say the only AR that really holds much of an identity apart from the ntec is the atac. Why is that? Because its unique in that it is more of a cqc AR. Unfortunately for the other ARs it just seemed more like a money grab. Cobra? Terrible. Misery? Might as well not even exist. Obviously its not LO fault for these weapons being failures but it doesn't mean they should just witch hunt after the ntec. If they want to lower the mag size a little on the ntec ok thats fine. I suppose jump shots are ok to get rid of even though i don't think they were much of a problem. The issue i have is touching the core mechanic of the ntec. At the end of the day though nerfing the ntec until its nothing doesn't do much for the game. I've been here a long time and I can say i that before the weapon changes there was ALOT weapon diversity. Sure maybe there were alot of ntecs but it doesn't mean everyone was a god with it or that it was all anyone used. There just aren't enough options for assault rifles and thats honestly why people gravitate to the Ntec. Not because its op broken. CookiePuss, im sure can relate based of his reply earlier in this thread. The ntec was just a fun gun to use. Its not a matter of it being a crutch. It just feel good to use. Other ARs just don't have that feeling. When you look at the other ARs its just like "oh another AR". I've mentioned it before in other threads but their way of nerfing the hvr was stupid. Adding mechanics to a gun that never existed before when they could just go with a simple damage nerf. Which is why the balance changes always have me worried. Ya would like scout jump shots back too but apparently it was "broken and to hard to counter" - hvr mains

Its after the third or forth shot the bloom will spike. Even when tap firing unless you "cooldown" the gun per say. Which is why I am stating it doesn't function exactly the same. You have to burst more than tap now.

Yes, i was referring to its effective range. They destroyed the bloom on it making its tap firing significantly worse. You can't honestly sit there and tell me it functioned the exact same as before in terms of tap firing when the bloom has a large jump after consecutive shots.

Absolutely not. As someone who has used the ntec for 9+ years i can tell you it doesn't function the exact same.