Changes to EOL Launchers to make them fit their roles better.

[Ketog 1032]

Hello everyone , thank you for giving me your time to read this post .

 

So before talking about stats , every person that touched an EOL noticed something about them , their gameplay is unique and not comparable to any other weapons in APB , they are explosives , but with a faster gameplay added to them .

 

I myself use the "Kickback" varient of EOL a lot and i think it's a great gun , but there's something that bothers me about EOLs , it's that only kickback is able to to fullfill what it was made for , EOL "Deep Impact" Feels okay but is still lacking power in multiple aspects (will go into more details after...), the EOL "Hammer" is by far the worse EOL of all three , it fails at doing everything that it was supposed to do and at the moment , almost any player would agree that kickback is just a better hammer .

 

So here i will be proposing some changes to the EOL Series to make each varient much better at what it was designed for :

 

Changes to all varients of EOL's :

 

-Make all varients two slotted

First of all , one of the things that bothers me , not only kickback is the most powerfull version of the EOL at the moment , but it's also the only one that has two modifications slots avaliable, eols already have modding limitations due to them being launchers thus unnafected by most mods and also have a preset red mod on them , having only a single modification slot on Hammer and Deep impact havely restrains people to make the weapon fit their needs or likings .

 

-Increase their stored ammo by 35-50%

EOLs being faster paced explosive weapons will burn ammo much faster than classical explosives , i'd suggest increasing their stored ammo by 35 to 50% (Effect equivalent to bandolier 2 or 3) to make them stand longer in fights without having to live near an ammo box , an OPGL as an exemple , has the same ammount of ammo but is a much slower weapon thus will be able to stand for longer than EOLs .

 

Here's what the values would look like :

[Link to the spreadsheet]

 

EOL "The Hammer"

This varient of EOL is equipped with the "Percussion 40mm Grenade" stating the following : "Adaptations to fire percussion style grenades that arm after a very short duration in the air. These do medium damage over an short blast radius."

 

I want you guys to keep an eye on the underlined part of that text  , the reason people doesn't like the Hammer varient of EOL is because it doesn't fire the grenades people expect it to , the mod itself actually contradicts it's own effect , why does percussion grenades arm after a short duration in the air ? doesn't percussion grenades you throw by hand are live as soon as they leave the hand ? , so why can "percussion" grenades bounce using the hammer ?

 

Here's the change im suggesting for the Hammer varient  of EOLs to make it do the role it's supposed to :

 

-Make the grenades live as soon as they leave the barrel

-Increase the flight speed of the grenades by 20%

Those changes will make the hammer act similar to the "Egg launcher" that was avaliable when the "drug mule" dynamic event was still ingame , not as strong of course but a similar gameplay , and make the gun act like people expect it to , but those changes also raises more concerns as the weapon would suddentely become much easier to use and make it too strong which is why i would also do this :

 

-Reduce the maximum damage radius to 150cm (compared to 225 currently)

The current version of the hammer has a blast radius of 550cm , and deals full damage (535) in a 225cm radius , wich would make it way too easy to use with actual percussion grenades , this change would make it so that user actually needs to aim and track his opponent and not just spam grenades as much as he can until something dies.

 

All those changes to the hammer would make it an actual percussion launcher that is much more usable for anti personnel purposes .

 

EOL "Deep Impact"

This varient of EOL is equipped with the "Concussion 40mm Grenades" stating the following "Adaptations to fire concussion style grenades that arm after a medium duration in the air. These bounce very little and do extreme damage to targets caught in their small blast radius, especially vehicles."

 

As the description says , this varient of EOL is strong against vehicles but can also deal heavy damage to players by sacrificing speed .

 

Im a huge fan of the grenade not bouncing wich makes placement of the grenade much easier considering you only have a single grenade in the magazine , the problem in that weapon is it's just not a threat to most vehicle users , currently the Deep imact only deals 1,108.8 Hard damage wich sounds like a lot , but is actually quite low , most medium cars in APB have more than 1100 health , at the moment deep impact is a true threat only to light vehicles (wich are mostly fast thus harder to hit) so here's my suggestion :

 

-Increase deep impact's hard damage to 1,227.6

Why such an odd number you might ask , well that number is the same as a weapon that every driver would fear ! the OSMAW , so yes , im proposing to make  deep imact's hard damage equal to the OSMAW so people would truely fear that weapon when they are driving a vehicle .

 

Another thing that i noticed using Deep impact is that the windup is a bit longer (0.73) , wich makes the weapon really feel slow as it already has a longer reload time , currently the deep impact feels like an slower version of the hand concussion grenades, which it should , but i think it is slightly too slow .

 

-Lower the windup to 0.63 seconds

The deep impact is a weapon that is very hard to use for anti personel purposes , so it should at least be a bit more forgiving at being anti vehicle , lowering the windup of deep impact would make leading grenades on vehicles slightly easier , as the windup is already a handicap to hit a moving vehicle .

 

-Lower arming time of the grenade so it becomes armed after 20-22 meters

Currently the mod description of deep impact states a meduim arming time , while it's clearly much longer than the kickback/hammer varient , im suggesting this change to be able to use the deep impact at longer ranges a bit easier to destroy moving vehicles while keeping the arming time long enough to not be an issue in anti personel combat . right now the grenade will become armed only after flying about 25 meters making vehicle targeting very hard as you have to take into acount the windup , and the travel time already , this is a very slight change but that would make deep impact a bit more convinient to use.

 

 

EOL "Kickback"

Well , i got nothing to say for this one , as it's literally the only EOL that does it's job in a decent way.

 

 

So this is it , those are the changes im proposing to make the EOL series a bit more intresting and unique to play , in my opinion those guns are very special , but they needed a bit more tweaking to fulfill their roles better .

Do not hesitate to share you opinion , i honestly first thought about adding more magazine size to the weapons , but it would need much more tweaking if so or end up way too strong so i ditched that idea.

 

Oh yeah also fix this :

the name of the mod is missing an "s" after "Grenade" , both kickback and deep impact have it in the end

Edited January 28, 2020 by Ketog

[Latsha 71]

Seems like something that has to be done, I mean the gun is unused by anyone really and whoever owns one is probably looking to trade it up for something. Good suggestion Egghead 

[vsb 6171]

not sure if i like the stored ammo increase, since with extra open slots bandolier is an option if a player feels they need more ammo

 

my quick and dirty fix would just have all the EOL variants explode on contact, thereby making them all slightly faster paced and giving the legendary line a more unique gimmick

 

other than that, a standardized amount of open slots (2) and a standardized windup (.67s) are all that’s needed imo 

 

i do like the increased concussion hard damage tho ngl

 

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by BXNNXD
typo

[Kewlin 692]

Overall good suggestions, with two caveats.

 

I'm, not sure they need more stored ammo, but I guess I'd try it out.

 

I'm not sure I want the projectile speed increased on the Hammer, unless we went with VSB's suggestion of making them all explode on impact. Yes, increased projectile speed increases range, which makes it seem like a straight buff at first, but it also makes it harder to hit high-ground. One of the major purposes of a grenade is reaching difficult to reach locations, and we already see that not being able to bounce makes reaching high ground difficult, and having a higher arc will make it even more difficult. Think of the buildings north of New Cross under the highway, for example; it would be extremely hard to land a percussion grenade with a flatter arc on top of those buildings, if it was even possible at all.

 

As I see it, the EOLs already can shoot SUPER far, especially if you increased the fuze timer to 8192s like with percussion grenades, so I don't think that increasing the projectile speed would have a major beneficial effect, except maybe making it a little easier to track vehicles (but the EOLs are barely anti-vehicle anyways.)

[Zolerox 564]

7 hours ago, Ketog said:

 

-Make the grenades live as soon as they leave the barrel

-Increase the flight speed of the grenades by 20%

Those changes will make the hammer act similar to the "Egg launcher" that was available when the butcher mini game was still in game , not as strong of course but a similar game play , and make the gun act like people expect it to , but those changes also raises more concerns as for the weapon would suddenly become much easier to use and make it too strong which is why i would also do this :

Hey My name's zolerox I also accept Zole dole and Big Mama.

 

I get a google alert anytime someone mentions the following : "egg launcher" "OCA nano 'gold' "

"the butcher" "hot cross gun" "drug mule" "Dynamic events" "Easter 2014" "Matt Scott's beard"

 

so first of all nice thread i agreed with most of it

(ammo increase no it needs to have less ammo giving bandoleer a place to live).

 

So here's what i'm here to clear up,

the "egg launcher" was not a weapon during "the butcher" dynamic event the weapon in question was introduced during "Easter 2014" in a event called "Hot Cross Gun" and along side "dynamic events" with "drug mule" of course and sadly all this was sadly and sadly was sadly shut sadly down sadly because as sad as it was (ok only I cared but still)  Removed due to "Fps issues during missions".

 

They were first added  15th April 2014

Forum link

 

 

Removed from missions "fps issues" 21st April 2015

Hell on earth link

 

And last seen "used" in Christmas beacon event district. 12th December 2016

Butcher reduced to a ice launcher link

 

I remember doing a daily event (using the tracker before it was deprecated) winning a weapon skin selector Just so i could get the Easter egg skin so i could imitate the Egg launcher from the "hot cross gun" event the butcher's origin. 

 

[Kewlin 692]

16 minutes ago, Zolerox said:

so first of all nice thread i agreed with most of it

(ammo increase no it needs to have less ammo giving bandoleer a place to live).

 

Except that the issue with that is bandolier has more of an effect the more reserve ammo a gun has.

[Zolerox 564]

4 hours ago, Kewlin said:

 

Except that the issue with that is bandolier has more of an effect the more reserve ammo a gun has.

Weapons need to have downsides "Buff something you gotta nerf something else" bandolier does that job if it had more reserve ammo by default it would be a straight buff.

 

[Ketog 1032]

8 hours ago, Zolerox said:

Hey My name's zolerox I also accept Zole dole and Big Mama.

 

I get a google alert anytime someone mentions the following : "egg launcher" "OCA nano 'gold' "

"the butcher" "hot cross gun" "drug mule" "Dynamic events" "Easter 2014" "Matt Scott's beard"

 

so first of all nice thread i agreed with most of it

(ammo increase no it needs to have less ammo giving bandoleer a place to live).

 

So here's what i'm here to clear up,

the "egg launcher" was not a weapon during "the butcher" dynamic event the weapon in question was introduced during "Easter 2014" in a event called "Hot Cross Gun" and along side "dynamic events" with "drug mule" of course and sadly all this was sadly and sadly was sadly shut sadly down sadly because as sad as it was (ok only I cared but still)  Removed due to "Fps issues during missions".

 

They were first added  15th April 2014

Forum link

 

 

Removed from missions "fps issues" 21st April 2015

Hell on earth link

 

And last seen "used" in Christmas beacon event district. 12th December 2016

Butcher reduced to a ice launcher link

 

I remember doing a daily event (using the tracker before it was deprecated) winning a weapon skin selector Just so i could get the Easter egg skin so i could imitate the Egg launcher from the "hot cross gun" event the butcher's origin. 

 

Ah yeah , i honestly wasn't sure for the name of the dynamic event, ill fix that thanks

 

Also i would still be alright not giving a stored ammo buff to them , but i think that right now even  with bandolier , weapons that can fire explosives so fast , run out of ammo a bit too fast , that's why i suggested adding a bit more ammo , so then using bandolier you would have in my opinion , enough ammo to stand alone for a while . the buff that i suggested isn't to replace bandolier , it's actually to make it more effective , plus this is more of a quality of life / convenience change

 

8 hours ago, Kewlin said:

 

Except that the issue with that is bandolier has more of an effect the more reserve ammo a gun has.

Pretty much what i said above

 

3 hours ago, Zolerox said:

Weapons need to have downsides "Buff something you gotta nerf something else" bandolier does that job if it had more reserve ammo by default it would be a straight buff.

 

Yes ? , that's the point of a straight buff

 

BTW i just did a spreadsheet to see the buffed values check the main post

 

now after seeing the values again i do think that 35 is better but i also dont think 50% would be an issue as it's something that only the user sees , it would also make the ressuplying time extremely long using bandolier (maybe that's the downside you were looking for ?) .

Edited December 15, 2018 by Ketog

[Zolerox 564]

4 hours ago, Ketog said:

 

now after seeing the values again i do think that 35 is better but i also dont think 50% would be an issue as it's something that only the user sees , it would also make the ressuplying time extremely long using bandolier (maybe that's the downside you were looking for ?) .

There are tricks to resupply faster (most effective with guns that have BD3 equipped) this doesn't even consider the fact you get all your ammo back when you respawn.

 

Imagine a match of asylum where people spawn with EOL's and a lot of ammo then die and respawn with all that ammo back the spam...

 

A small increase wouldn't be too bad (20-30% seems better to me)

[Kewlin 692]

8 hours ago, Zolerox said:

A small increase wouldn't be too bad (20-30% seems better to me)

 

Yeah, gonna' agree here.