Shotgun Balance Details

[Running Eagle 16]

14 hours ago, SkittyM said:

That's a rather odd statement since the current B testing going on in Jericho denotes that the CSG is top dog.

Multiple instances of JG with IR3 test-firing on CSG with IR3 on both stationary and moving targets (for stationary, distance was first 10m and then 14m which is CSG/TAS intended optimal play range without IR, and maxes out on JG's literal effective range WITH IR3, while the moving target testing varied between a reasonable 8-17m) ended with JG winning 8/10 engagements, with 5 tests done for stationary, 5 for moving, and the CSG NOT ONCE having been capable of a 2 pump kill, one 3 pump kill during the winning 10 meter stationary test, and a ridiculous 5 pump kill on the winning  'movement' test which was also on the lower end of the approximated distance.  During the movement testing, it took 5 pumps (and lost the other 4 engagements) very clearly due to missed pellets despite having patiently lined up and fired on center mass, as 50% of the pellets (at the very least) were visibly not landing.

 

And that can be attributed to netcode, accuracy loss from movement, whatever.  Plenty of reasonable excuses why it was user error, net error, reg error, etc.

 

I'd like to hear viable explanations as to why the CSG/TAS lost 4/5 stationary engagements and could not land 100% of its pellets on a target 10m away where both combatants ensured that crosshairs lay on center mass prior to combat starting... if you mean to tell me that it is not intended to be a 2 pump kill at 10m then I do not understand its purpose comparatively between the JG or Shredder.  And the worst part is, the 1 win the CSG enjoyed during the stationary testing, seemed to be attributed to the fact that the JG user clicked too quickly on their fourth pump causing it to not shoot, which most definitely would've ended me, as after the 3rd pump I was a TG-8 dart from death thanks to the JG's pellets spread and damage-per-pellet being spaced out so that an approximate 25% of pellets missed per pump....but again...the CSG was missing 0 of 21 pellets and didn't kill until the third pump, at what realistically ought to be considered the CSG/TAS' intended niche range.

 

There is something to be said for the fact that both pump shotguns are intended to fill a very similar niche and comparing them against each other, and not against other cqc weapons is perhaps nitpicky due to them both being solid options vs. short range carbines, oscar, and (all but one) SMG if you are closer than 10m.  But even then, the JG was clearly the more consistent, reliable choice, and IDK any player including myself that would sacrifice reliability/consistency for the very mild potential to have a somewhat better damage output at ranges where the CSG's 21 pellets have a considerable potential to miss 50% despite being within the 'effective range' of the gun without IR3.

 

I believe the damage values need reversing, or the pellet count needs reversing.

 

It stands to reason, to me, that the more pellets a shotgun puts out, the more damage it ought to be doing.  JG's approximate 85x12 (hard capped at 775) damage output from a single pump compared to CSG's 40x21 (hard capped at 620) output from VERY comparable ranges thanks to the CSG's inability to land 100% of pellets at it's unmodded maxed effective range, is really bonkers.  CSG needs to be brought in-line to be CONSISTENT and RELIABLE of its own stat-based accord, not counting the user's input, OR the JG needs to be adjusted so that it is just as fickle and temperamental as the CSG dependent on the user's everything including internet and framerate.

 

tl;dr neither gun is bad but one is clearly consistently better than the other vs. each other and the same one is consistently more reliable vs nonshotguns at the same effective ranges the inferior one is meant to excel in.

 

But if you can make the CSG 2 pump with equal consistency as, and at greater range than the JG, either beyond their effective range with IR3 or within the effective range without IR3, I would really appreciate a class on how to make it happen, cap'n.  No sarcasm, I really mean that.  Because if it is simply something I'm doing wrong by trying to play the guns to their stats and intention, I would really really like to know, eing that I have 3 seperate versions of the CSG/TAS that more or less collect dust because of its consistent inability to achieve 2 shot kills outside of a JG's unmodded range.  I mean sure I can make it 2 pump within 7 meters, but why would I choose a CSG over a JG if I'm going to be restricted to that distance anyway...

 

Sorry for the novella.  Game mechanics are fascinating to me and I care a lot about APB's future.  Weapon balance seems to be a polarizing subject and is equally as likely to put the game to death if done wrong (unsatisfactorily to the community), as it is to revive it with gusto if done correctly (makes err'body happy.).

[Iazer 204]

13 hours ago, SkittyM said:

Really the only thing i have to disagree with.  The SG-21 'Strife' is NOT meant to be a competitive weapon.  Its a clunky high risk/reward shotgun that's rather fun to use when you learn to not care.

 

The Test A SG-21 is worse than the B variant since A only does 750 something per shot.  Though what you mean about range, the SG-21 originally had damage so high it beat even the CSG at 20m.  In actual combat however the CSG wins only because it can shoot so fast.

Fair enough I just wish this shotgun would be more mainstream cause I doesn't feel like it exists atm

[SkittyM 287]

6 hours ago, Iazer said:

Fair enough I just wish this shotgun would be more mainstream cause I doesn't feel like it exists atm

I think that's due to pellet scaling making the gun less reliable so less people want to use it.  It and the CSG are the only shotguns that shoot 21 pellets and the SG-21 is rather slow so it really fell off once LO took over.  I do remember shortly after it came out and people understood it, it gained some traction for being an entertaining gun to use.

 

Also because pop is still slowly dwindling down.