balance balance

[XYXYXYXYX 33]

So I've been pondering for quite a bit of time now how would LO be able to bring up the current weapons that sit in the 'useless' to 'meh' tiers in comparison to the top dogs of each role, particularly the bloated assault rifle role. We have about 11 assault rifles, now not all of them need changes imo. I'd say the FAR and ATAC along with the two legendary AR's sit in a pretty good place in comparison to the N-TEC which should also stay as is as well. But even still with those 5 perhaps not needing changes they still have to buff the other 6 in a way that still keeps them unique to the rest and from themselves.

 

For example right now we have 2 assault rifles that have pretty similar handling,ISSR-A and the Misery. Those guns have basically the same behavior when ADS,  '2 round bursts after about 25m" hip accuracy for both is bad to terrible. The only big difference between the two is mag size and damage, ISSR-A (4 stk) vs the 5 of the misery. I'd say both of these need buffs but say if the goal of LO when rebalance time eventually comes around is to keep weapon behavior mostly the same we'll be with two guns that are very samey and when you have guns so alike typically one will out shadow the other without very careful balancing. But luckily? in their current state they're both out shadowed by pretty much every other AR aside from the COBR-A. But if I was forced to choose between the ISSR-A and misery as is with their current stats I'd go with the ISSR.

 

This issue also continues into the ACES-R and ATAC before the buff and then eventual nerf that the ATAC got(which still didn't place it back to the way it was..), it sort of lost reliability after 40ish meters which is when the aces rifle starts struggling pretty hard but now I'd say the atac reaches out into 50 meters pretty comfortably which creates a big problem imo for the ACES-R. It ruined that close balance the two guns had previously. They both reached out to 40m and then started struggling, the big difference back then was that you traded two things between the guns. ATAC - Full Auto out to 40 and more kill potential per mag vs ACES-R having to burst fire and less kills per mag but in return it got way better hipfire. The ACES-R was also hurt more more by the massive buff of the OCA than the ATAC. The better hipfire of aces-r was to be able to be more mobile for certain ranges and to be able to take on smgs if you played it smart but right now with the OCA being able to drop its ttk below 0.60? with cj3 it makes it near impossible to take on against anyone decent using it.

 

There's a few more conflicts like this but not all roles are I guess busted in regards to balance like this. Most would be simple changes or not needing changes at all. Rifles, lmg's, secondaries, and shotties are pretty well balanced only complaints would be that the shaw has way too much horizontal recoil and the coroner is just terrible all around basically. smg's would just need the oca ttk raised back up to 0.70 or possibly 0.68/9 and tommy gun needs that awful recoil toned down a little, my arm legit ends up hurting from all the pulling down on my mouse that I have to do but maybe that's a me problem I dunno. Norsemen guns and the smg from the revelations pack are weird and I don't know what could be done for them if even anything at all while still keeping their current behavior. The aces smg maybe could be looked at, it feels like it's worse at being an smg than compared to the assault rifle version...

 

As for snipers the role is a bit busted like the assault rifles, the only ones that I'd say are in a good spot right now is the hvr 243, dmr av, iss-b dog ear, and the hvr 762 which needs that damage toned down just a little like I'd even be happy with it dropping from 850 to 800 just so I can eat an extra n-tec round before ded. But for the rest they need buffs I'd say. The dmr SD version is meh and could at least have its recoil toned down to make it better at killing people so it'd have that at least over the av, the oblivion could maybe be made full auto just to have another full auto sniper with the IRS which could perhaps have its run speed buffed to be a more mobile dmr av. Anyways that's all just my opinion and I wanna see what others think that could be done for weapons if anything at all for some or all even.

[magik 184]

Balance is on a back burner until the new Engine is finished.

 

There's already a bunch of Weapon Balance threads... I'd say add it to the pile, but at least yours is more descriptive. But not anything new from what's already been proposed.

 

A lot of the guns are pretty well balanced. There's just a few outliers that are gods in their category, and they basically render the meta of the game stagnant. (I'm looking at you HVR and N-TEC... damn Russians) A nerf to the HVR is wanted by a majority. However, what that nerf should be has been debatable. I think changing the damage from 850 to 750 or 775 would be significantly better. Changing the time to switch the weapons out was a bad idea, because it didn't fix the main issue (quick switching)

 

N-TEC is just god... enough said there.

[CommandantSteele 52]

5 minutes ago, Sergsininia said:

Balance is on a back burner until the new Engine is finished.

 

There's already a bunch of Weapon Balance threads... I'd say add it to the pile, but at least yours is more descriptive. But not anything new from what's already been proposed.

 

A lot of the guns are pretty well balanced. There's just a few outliers that are gods in their category, and they basically render the meta of the game stagnant. (I'm looking at you HVR and N-TEC... damn Russians) A nerf to the HVR is wanted by a majority. However, what that nerf should be has been debatable. I think changing the damage from 850 to 750 or 775 would be significantly better. Changing the time to switch the weapons out was a bad idea, because it didn't fix the main issue (quick switching)

 

N-TEC is just god... enough said there.

They need to do something to the N-TEC to make it less universal. As it stands if you get good at tapfire and can remain good at tapfire under pressure you have a weapon that can perform well in most situations and ranges. And it's not like the STAR where it's "okay" at most things that aren't sniping, the N-TEC is GOOD at most things that aren't sniping. And even then it can put pressure on snipers pretty well.

 

Something's gotta give with this thing, but I don't really know what.

[magik 184]

2 hours ago, Freewind said:

They need to do something to the N-TEC to make it less universal. As it stands if you get good at tapfire and can remain good at tapfire under pressure you have a weapon that can perform well in most situations and ranges. And it's not like the STAR where it's "okay" at most things that aren't sniping, the N-TEC is GOOD at most things that aren't sniping. And even then it can put pressure on snipers pretty well.

 

Something's gotta give with this thing, but I don't really know what.

Well, I think that either reducing the effectiveness of the gun at range would help... If you use CJ on an NTEC it's range is compromised, but the cqc is increased significantly. Like wise, same with IR, but it doesn't have as much of an effect on close range. Not that I've observed.

 

off topic...

2 hours ago, Freewind said:

Something's gotta give

 

[CommandantSteele 52]

2 minutes ago, Sergsininia said:

Well, I think that either reducing the effectiveness of the gun at range would help... If you use CJ on an NTEC it's range is compromised, but the cqc is increased significantly. Like wise, same with IR, but it doesn't have as much of an effect on close range. Not that I've observed.

 

off topic...

 

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From what I understand: Traditionally, the AK is seen as more of a closer range spray weapon that's a bit higher power vs the M16/M4A1 that's a bit lower power but more accurate at long ranges. Though this is more of Counter-Strike talking and less of APB. With how many weapons that are reskins of the N-TEC we might need to rework them to not be 1:1 reskins, which can be tricky.

 

We've kinda got a lose-lose situation on our hands. If we rework the N-TEC and it's reskins as one group you might anger a lot of people who now have a vastly different weapon, if we rework the N-TEC by itself while also reworking it's previous reskins into something more unique, we increase the "Pay 2 win!!!!!!" "ammo" for that argument since the guns are now statistically different.

 

Tough calls.

[magik 184]

1 hour ago, Freewind said:

From what I understand: Traditionally, the AK is seen as more of a closer range spray weapon that's a bit higher power vs the M16/M4A1 that's a bit lower power but more accurate at long ranges. Though this is more of Counter-Strike talking and less of APB. With how many weapons that are reskins of the N-TEC we might need to rework them to not be 1:1 reskins, which can be tricky.

 

We've kinda got a lose-lose situation on our hands. If we rework the N-TEC and it's reskins as one group you might anger a lot of people who now have a vastly different weapon, if we rework the N-TEC by itself while also reworking it's previous reskins into something more unique, we increase the "Pay 2 win!!!!!!" "ammo" for that argument since the guns are now statistically different.

 

Tough calls.

I think each weapon should have a unique aspect. Not p2w. You can make an N-Tec long range like I said, I use a VAS Sword for my main AR. And it's great, I prefer to use CJ. but CJ should make it slightly more detrimental to Long range engagements, for any weapon. (Yes, you too HVR)

Some mods affect guns more than others, both positive and negative. If they can make the default N-Tec more close range, and model the variants after it, then they'd be golden. Don't make them exact, but don't keep them in the niche they play. I say niche, but they're more universal...

[CommandantSteele 52]

3 minutes ago, Sergsininia said:

I think each weapon should have a unique aspect. Not p2w. You can make an N-Tec long range like I said, I use a VAS Sword for my main AR. And it's great, I prefer to use CJ. but CJ should make it slightly more detrimental to Long range engagements, for any weapon. (Yes, you too HVR)

Some mods affect guns more than others, both positive and negative. If they can make the default N-Tec more close range, and model the variants after it, then they'd be golden. Don't make them exact, but don't keep them in the niche they play. I say niche, but they're more universal...

I bounce around weapons a lot and honestly prefer not to use the N-TEC or it's reskins because I feel like they're kinda crutch-y.

 

But mods affecting the guns a bit more would be nice. Though TBH I don't have a 100% understanding of the mod mechanics (Something somewhere about CJ being good for tapfire due to bloom resetting faster? Le wut?) but I feel like it's a bit too easy to undo the drawbacks of a mod? Like with the N-TEC and IR3. If you tapfire well you don't really even care about the increased bloom or w/e it is. So you get +7m effective range for the downside of having to shoot a tiny bit slower?

 

Kinda busted.

 

I would like to see a balance pass to make various weapon classes more distinct and reign in the weapons that kinda just do whatever a bit. (Like the N-TEC)

 

Balancing shotguns to be good at, say, 10-20m? SMG's from 20-30m? AR's from 40-60? DMR's/Snipers 60-100?

 

I'd leave it up to actual developers for final numbers, but it feels like the classes of weapons have become way to blurry.

[magik 184]

2 hours ago, Freewind said:

I bounce around weapons a lot and honestly prefer not to use the N-TEC or it's reskins because I feel like they're kinda crutch-y.

 

But mods affecting the guns a bit more would be nice. Though TBH I don't have a 100% understanding of the mod mechanics (Something somewhere about CJ being good for tapfire due to bloom resetting faster? Le wut?) but I feel like it's a bit too easy to undo the drawbacks of a mod? Like with the N-TEC and IR3. If you tapfire well you don't really even care about the increased bloom or w/e it is. So you get +7m effective range for the downside of having to shoot a tiny bit slower?

 

Kinda busted.

 

I would like to see a balance pass to make various weapon classes more distinct and reign in the weapons that kinda just do whatever a bit. (Like the N-TEC)

 

Balancing shotguns to be good at, say, 10-20m? SMG's from 20-30m? AR's from 40-60? DMR's/Snipers 60-100?

 

I'd leave it up to actual developers for final numbers, but it feels like the classes of weapons have become way to blurry.

 

I think any weapon shouldn't get good for all ranges, and combats, but there should be some sort of overlap with some weapons... like the ACES SMG/Rifle. The ISSR, and Anubis have no free counterpart, and I won't knock that, but they have super high vehicle damage with no counter... and that's a problem... They fire quick, and are a lot of times better to have than a DMR...

[CommandantSteele 52]

4 minutes ago, Sergsininia said:

 

I think any weapon shouldn't get good for all ranges, and combats, but there should be some sort of overlap with some weapons... like the ACES SMG/Rifle. The ISSR, and Anubis have no free counterpart, and I won't knock that, but they have super high vehicle damage with no counter... and that's a problem... They fire quick, and are a lot of times better to have than a DMR...

Well, yeah. Rare exceptions can be fun, and some of the lack of viability can be blamed on poor skill and servers being junky, but I feel like we need to at least consider the possibility that something should be done.

[magik 184]

2 hours ago, Freewind said:

Well, yeah. Rare exceptions can be fun, and some of the lack of viability can be blamed on poor skill and servers being junky, but I feel like we need to at least consider the possibility that something should be done.

Yep something should be done! I hope the Engine doesn't take years... that'll get old real quick, lol, but I'm expecting some changes soon.