Abduct / Devote

No, you're just really awkwardly selectively blind whenever I've made a point. Flaws and I showed great examples. You wanted us to first come to a Ntec based thread to debate this, you can't refute our points and you instead make inconsistent points/excuses for how it was "broken." Meanwhile, we HAVE shown how it was fine, but yeah you're just in your own lil world. It's ok, I know you're really bad at reading what we said and understanding anything. But honestly? I'm kind of tired of repeating the same thing over and over again. Again, you have a lot of faith in LO to know all about the game when vets have been playing for years and years, before they even came along. Get your head out of your anus and think for once in your life. Stop being silly. This argument will go nowhere because you refuse to acknowledge actual points/facts. Flaws and I have pointed stuff out on numerous occasions and you still haven't shown us jack to prove your points except falling back to "WELL LO SAID THIS SO MUST BE RIGHT." Yep, that's definitely how the world works.

I rest my case lol. You're really unaware of how weapon balance should work, as clearly proven by this and many other threads. Good day

Less than you'd think, more than you'd like. That's how the situation has always been.

You see how you still haven't given him proof? Because you're full of it. You're not a teacher because you're too incompetent to google something for us and post the results.

No, you prove it here by posting. You don't tell someone to google something. You need to specify what you're talking about and post it here. The google excuse is outdated. I'd love to see how you argue this point. You seem to be able to post that it's cheating but can't back it up

Borus if you couldn't see what our issues were after 5 pages of this, you're never going to see it. You're never going to understand anything, because you will just deny anything. You don't want the Ntec to be in a usual state, because you just hate the gun, plain and simple. Don't lie anymore on this thread, you're really just so bad at it. Get the "stats" thing outa here, you still won't prove jack about anything. You say Flaws can't provide sufficient proof? Dude he's taking pictures, talking data. You bring in zero substance, and are actually useless towards this conversation. Basically just proving our points all along. The whiners who didn't like dying to it just wanted it nerfed to the ground. I'm glad you, and the other pleasant ones I've had time to adjust and mingle with are so. damn. pathetic.

"A straw man (or strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man"." Oh, so what you've been doing all this time? Maybe relook at what you have been posting to us, and rethink the logic pattern here. "And you just admitted your bias, "it was our favorite gun and it felt good". Yes, people never want their favorite weapons nerfed, it's understandable. Especially when they believe the ENTIRE game should be BUILT around that specific weapon." - your words. Take a good look at what he had been posting about. You couldn't refute it properly, and attacked the "favorite gun" with this type of argument. Nice job. And you wonder why we think you're a joke.

I called you what you are. You can't bother because you don't know how to argue your points, since it's gonna be the same thing I've been reading from 2 others. Good job admitting you can't prove your own talking points. Also I didn't call you ignorant til the second half of my post, it wasn't right away. Guess dyslexic too.

You mean what the FAR can do? Y'know the jump shot around corners? That's not even exclusive to the NTEC. This is an ARCADE shooter, btw. That means stuff like trick shots/cool stuff is like... desirable? So jump shotting is one of those flair things. But even if you argue it should not be a thing, if that's the case then they would need to nerf that on EVERY gun that can do it reliably now. Really stupid way to balance, basing off of whining like this. Btw your bloom argument shows how ignorant you are, I guess I'm wasting my time trying to explain anything to you. It's an endless cycle of people who have no clue what they're talking about discussing balance changes. Great....

"I'm not grasping at straws" "You mean the Scoped NTEC?" Bro. That's the definition. Keep it up man.

Ok so he takes pictures of his data that he gained on his own, and you post words of what you supposedly did. Ok. So desperate that you grasp for straws here.

Thanks Amayii, not sure how the topic strayed that far.... I think flaws pointed out perfectly a lot of issues with all his proof posted, but I haven't seen something proving the other sides argument so I'll take that as a win.

I just wanna point out that the holy trinity status didn't mean they were broken op. You seem think think they were, but the Ntec was actually... not. It wasn't my goto in every situation. I always preferred OCA (yeah I get that user preference is a thing here, so that doesn't mean too much) for cqc or a shotgun, and for long range HVR was usually the best bet as much as I hated it. If any weapon was picked as a crutch, it was HVR. I do agree that there was a holy trinity going on, don't get me wrong on that point. I do think Ntec was in it, I just don't agree that it was OP in that status. It wasn't a must pick or lose.

"I never did this I never did this" You preached it all the time, and asked for it, lol. Was I name calling you here? No, I was staying on topic and actually posting well. So take your obsession with the victim role out of here. You and Runner both expose yourselves every post on how you're wrong/hypocritical. I Used ntec without HB, never with. QS? I've done it, I never claimed to not though. You're the one who acted "holier than thou" on that spectrum. You claim you're casual yes? or you gonna backtrack that one too? If you are casual, you should not have any say in the competitive aspects of the game like weapon balancing. Period. You supposedly don't care at that point, so that argument already sailed as soon as you admitted to being casual. Bye ~

You claim to be sportsmanlike and a casual, yet abuse the things that are most broken. Your go to was HVR, not Ntec. The only time I saw you use ntec was with hb2. Weird? You're a hypocrite, through and through. I do think you're in the wrong here, because you're actually such a joke. Borus, regardless if it was nerfed or buffed, you still were basing that off of something you claimed to have knowledge of, and to why you should have a say in gun balance, yet had no clue in fact about the very thing you were discussing a nerf on. @fortune runner, I'm not gonna bother quoting all that man you sure had fun slice and splicing everything. You know that post where you claimed that wasn't your opinion, then instantly said "I'm not saying to?" Yeah you proved it was your opinion lol, either that or you did one hell of a typo :). You sure love all these stats and all that, but you NEVER back up any of that. None of you seemed to have shown me huh. I don't need to assume anything when you expose yourself every time. I think you mentioned I love going after you, man you and borus sure love this "oh yeah im the bad guy..." kind of thing. You're always trying to deflect from everything, and all criticism with more and more bullsh*t. Kinda weird how you guys love playing the victim! And yes borus, I was consistently on forums through 2016/2017. Pretty active until then! You're actually pretty hilarious grasping for straws at this point.

No, take your own advice. You didn't even read. You are also twisting things in your own head, lol. I actually ignored you earlier and you brought something stupid up. I'm going to call you out on it, sorry not sorry. How about you actually read what I post instead of nitpick to attempt to fit your own agenda? "Disclaimer : not my opinion just what others have said in the past on the forums" but also you same post "that doesn't mean I want to change." I thought this was not your opinion but yet you're treating it like your opinion. Weird...? Now stop being useless here thanks. I've discussed my issues with the Ntec and what's wrong, I don't think people who supposedly don't care about winning or losing should have a say thanks.

Reread what I said. Look show stupid this post sounds. "I don't care that it's not your opinion, trust me I read that you claim it isn't." Hello? "People have their own styles get over it. Not everyone has to be you rofl" That doesn't/shouldn't determine a gun's fate yo. What. So if someone's style is sucking patootie with one that's the solution? just change it so they'll be better? No, you learn to get better with a gun. That's called progression. Get that through your head. I already acknowledged that you SAID that wasn't your opinion, but you clearly didn't read what I posted saying that. Why are you taking offense to it? This is why I call you on your bull dude. Again, the Ntec was not designed to be the star or similar, it was designed to be it's own gun. There is zero reason to change it to be more like the star, jesus christ. And Borus, you quite literally mentioned that as why it should have been nerfed and why you were glad it was, the CQC aspect lol. Why do you guys backtrack randomly?

Hello?!?!? THIS. THIS. This is why we can't have nice things There's a large fking difference between a reskin gun designed to be one, and turning one INTO A RESKIN. I don't care that it's not your opinion, trust me I read that you claim it isn't. But this is wrong and the most incorrect way to "balance" things. The Ntec is not the STAR, nor should it be! Legit that mindset is why I claim what I do. This is one of the biggest things I am advocating against. Get that shiz outa here. The fact that you post a disclaimer to say it isn't your opinion, just to throw out something this utterly foolish, appalls me. Holy hell m8s.

Yeah that's the thing Borus. You're allowed to have an opinion, but you shouldn't be balancing the game. If you're not one of the dedicated better players that actually knows what they're doing, I don't want you to "balance." If the nerf meta you guys so love was the right call, there wouldn't be more threads about nerfs all the time. There always is though, weird how that works! It's like I was right the whole time when I brought this up before. What if I told you that proper weapon balance isn't something you know how to do, and gets harder to do the more guns you add to the game! Shocker! If most players are enjoying it why is this game population not rising/sustaining? I see 1 playable district when I get on NA, at any time (missions). Yeah, really doing well :). I see a bronze district filled and a silver district constantly fluctuating on both sides, because we have: cheater paranoia all the time, and people don't like losing. Truly, look at any game where there's a shred of competition and has 2 sides. Why is there a thread about so many gun nerfs now? because when you nerf something, you indirectly buff another. It's ok though, since that doesn't matter to YOU. But YOU and people with that mindset drive this game to a progressively bad state. That's my issue with you. Not that you know jack about gun balance, you truly don't as you abused the most broken aspects of anything you touched. Think you mentioned something about sportsmanship, but you fail to practice what you preach. Just a last statement to your final point, you say that you enjoy elitist attitudes because in "most games I've played they get consistently proven wrong." Weird that you're coincidentally wrong on many talking points you stated to me. One such example is the ATAC thread where you claimed they buffed the ATAC a month after release, but you didn't even know if that was true or not, just "thought" that was right. The reason most vets quit wasn't because of cheaters, sorry cheating is a minority of the issue. Always has been whether you want to believe it or not. When any gun gets nerfed or changed, it affects other guns too, which is why the NTEC became "too good" in your eyes. It got nerfed more than once at this point, and if you ask me the only change that should have happened was the HB2 one, because that was crutch and I know you abused that one Weapon nerfing is not always bad, but there are always repercussions, and the state of forums seems to agree with me. Also just saying, you twisted the whole point of my message, to fit your quote agenda, nothing unusual from the likes of you or people like-minded. You're always trying to downplay stuff you do and virtue signal on stuff like what I say. Biggest issues for new players: dethreaters. Not cheaters, not "weapon balancing." Weapon balancing is not what a new player should be discussing, nor a super casual one either. If you're truly that casual, why do you care?

There wouldn't be a need for these "forum wars" if all the people who cry about every damn gun would shut up and learn to play against them. People who consider themselves "casual" and "don't care about winning or losing" shouldn't care about weapon balance, so I'm not sure why THAT crowd should have a say is all.

Talking to you gets nowhere because you legit don't understand anything. If you don't have anything to contribute other than personal bull, don't. Thanks!

"Past month, game with a small population." I'm sorry but you claimed that at LEAST 50% of the opp you fought over a month was using ntec. Again, I'm going to call out this bs. You're gonna have to prove that one buddy, don't try to hit reverse and back out now. There's no substance for anything you've said, you obviously didn't get my point but that's ok, I'm not truly surprised when it comes to you.

Yeah I'm going to stop your tirade for a sec with my own. You have a vendetta against the Ntec, don't pretend you didn't. I played back to back days for almost a week recently, and lo and behold the only place I could find Ntec at least being used once or twice was fight club. There's a new bloom problem with the ntec NOW, that wasn't in BEFORE. I know because it definitely didn't exist before lol. So no, you're wrong. I'm not the only one who's seen this issue, and you're really grasping for straws. You say I'VE been having the wrong idea consistently? You mentioned in another thread how the ATAC was buffed 1 month after release and you seemed to have misremembered. You're saying that the cheaters/glitches are the problem with the game with that implications, and the "tryhards." There is a huge culmination of issues with this game, and I can tell you the cheater paranoia is one of them. I'm NOT claiming there were no cheaters, just there's always a golden rule: Less than you think, more than you'd like. "Tryhards" didn't kill the game for me. Poor balancing (I'm looking at you mission districts), lack of true content and dethreating. How did dethreating affect me? Well, because people hide in lower tier districts than they should be in, in order to kill newer people or people less skilled. They don't do that to have fun, they do it to win consistently. The Ntec can be "used" but that does NOT make it fine. That is NOT a justification for the changes, and it WASN'T just the jump shotting that was nerfed, you can leave that out idrc. I'd obviously prefer a full revert but regardless, at least fix the bloom. It kills the consistency and the tap firing the gun was made to do. I don't really like giving guns new gimmicks or killing core mechanics, it's truly disgusting to me that balancing is done like that now, or at least thought of. Borus you claimed to be casual and not care about winning or losing, so tell me why on earth should anyone that admits to being like that have any say in balancing? You clearly disqualify yourself from that... I still love how you keep trying to put down Respect by saying "u just wanted ur meta gun" when all he wanted was his gun to work as intended (which was prior to the nerfs). The hb2 nerf was the only one I was ok with, because that mod was a crutch (you should know very well). Your argument is flawed when we were both very versatile with our gun choices, I used marksman the most and he just so happened to like the Ntec. Just because the gun was versatile, doesn't mean it's broken. I wonder why the HVR is so much more prevalant... oh because the nerf wasn't to the damage and its still very strong wow I want to point out that people that dethreat avoid playing people in the silver district to go and bully lower skilled/new players, just to win. They want to win so badly they'll go out of their way to do so. That's a huge reason why new players are gonna get demotivated to continue on.

Here it is again, the "salty" comment, but no substance. Not surprised coming from you. You guys wanted me to debate you in an ntec thread and you just pull BS from your butt again and again. Where are you fighting is a good start, and "at least 50%" seems very unlikely unless you're in fight club (which has ZERO basis for being a balancing stat check). I played in Financial and I can tell you out of 30 matches straight, I saw 2 ntecs, one being my own. I will say it was more common than the Norse guns, at least!

Nice statistic, prove it. Last I played on NA, no one in missions aside from me used it cept for 2 of my teammates once, and that was in over 30 missions. May 25th.