Fr0g and .45

[Noob_Guardian 418]

Fr0g Series - Buff damage to a 205-210 per shot - Currently 200

 

.45 Reduce damage to 215 per shot or/and increase ttk to .85-1s. - Currently 225 and .8

 

Right now the fr0g is a very niche weapon which can be great sub 10m and turns into a psuedo fbw up to 20, and due to CA and even a slight moment of cover it often takes an extra shot to kill. This is due to the Fr0g having exactly 200 hp damage.

I feel it should get a minor buff to its damage to alleviate CA3 slightly in cqc, but not gain near as much overdamage as the .45 has. It would likely end up giving it another 1-2m possibly of range from the increased damage, though i don't see this necessarily as bad or a potential to worry that it would become too imbalanced. (Though i'm okay with testing to ensure it isn't too powerful)

 

Whereas the .45 which has much more range and a little more damage does not have this issue what so ever, it has the same TTK and much more range. It's not nearly as spammable as the fr0g due to 7 shots vs 10, however i feel it's a bit too effective due to its ttk, overdamage, and range combined. At least from my years of maining it and and from being on the receiving end. I always end up switching back to this from anything else I use because how it makes enemies much easier to handle. Overall I feel it's a tad "too" strong in comparison to most other pistols at the moment, except for the fr0g which is severely limited to cqc engagements and has issues with CA and an enemy being even 1m out of range.

 

There's no other pistol like it which can reach to 40m effectively and still end up doing so well in cqc against the more F2P counterpart pistols, while still going toe to toe with most cqc weapons. All of the other f2p pistols that can reach 30m have ~1.05ttk in comparison to the .8. While I feel that due to the amount of shots and the low room for error, a somewhat lower TTK than 1.05 is fine for the .45,  especially since you generally have to fire slower to hit at range, I feel that .8 may be a bit too low due to its cqc effectiveness.

 

I wouldn't say increase its TTK to that of the FBW or higher because I feel that would overnerf it, (though speaking in lines of TTK's and range, doing so may push it to a psuedo balanced state, but it would need a mag buff, and in general if a pistol can't effectively toe to toe against the FBW, it's considered trash if most of its range is within the FBW range). However a slight increase to the TTK between .8 and 1s to make it a little less forgiving in cqc, I feel may not be too harsh on it.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[Guest Zilsux]

You are right, The Fr0g should get a buff. a slight one to bring it up to the game. I had to play 4 days in a row Fr0g only and it was the weirdest experience Iv'e had with a pistol.

 

 

The .45 stuff tho... meh.

The .45 kills in 5 hits with a clip of 7 bullets. With this gun missing a shot is a sin. It does have a good ttk but at the cost of the player having to be skilled. (And have good RGN with all these latency spikes and weird hit-box behaviors)

 

Also as infuriating the Fr0g is, I've been able to 1v3 and 1v2 with it without much panic. The .45 tho, as soon as 2 people come around the corner, unless their aim is wack, you will have to hit all those shots dead on and be lucky enough your life will be spared while reloading the remaining 3 shots.

 

If anything the .45 could be greatly nerfed by removing one more bullet from its clip or by decreasing reload speed as killing more than 1 player at a time would prove to be even more of a challenge.

 

 In my opinion tho, .45 It's balanced enough, Fr0g needs love.

[Noob_Guardian 418]

15 hours ago, Zilsux said:

You are right, The Fr0g should get a buff. a slight one to bring it up to the game. I had to play 4 days in a row Fr0g only and it was the weirdest experience Iv'e had with a pistol.

 

 

The .45 stuff tho... meh.

The .45 kills in 5 hits with a clip of 7 bullets. With this gun missing a shot is a sin. It does have a good ttk but at the cost of the player having to be skilled. (And have good RGN with all these latency spikes and weird hit-box behaviors)

 

Also as infuriating the Fr0g is, I've been able to 1v3 and 1v2 with it without much panic. The .45 tho, as soon as 2 people come around the corner, unless their aim is wack, you will have to hit all those shots dead on and be lucky enough your life will be spared while reloading the remaining 3 shots.

 

If anything the .45 could be greatly nerfed by removing one more bullet from its clip or by decreasing reload speed as killing more than 1 player at a time would prove to be even more of a challenge.

 

 In my opinion tho, .45 It's balanced enough, Fr0g needs love.

To be fair though, .45 seems to be more of a weird hybrid finisher. Like, its extremely good at just annihilating 1 enemy especially if tagged, and its low mag seems to suggest this but if you have cover, it's not too hard to take out two or even 3 people coming at you because of its ttk and range for a pistol. It's a psuedo primary in the secondary slot, and generally weapons that do that, such as the prenerf RFP, and prenerf FBW, got nerfed for that reason.

 

Granted, fr0g permits multiple kills in a mag, and can do similar as the .45, its severely limited in range capabilities.

 

I've consistently near teamwiped just with the .45 while getting rushed from several sides. Where with any pistol or weapon I would be using at the time except maybe the fr0g (depending on ranges), it would have meant death. The only thing that makes the .45 resemble anything balanced is 7 shot mag, however it's not very hard to consistently 1 mag enemies if you aren't spraying and because of its damage, you don't have to worry about CA compared to the fr0g where even a fraction of a second (.3s?) and its an added shot. Yes the player has to be "skilled" 5 hit but most players using it now ARE skilled vets, and it's not hard to do so. You start spraying the .45 real fast and enemies immediately run for cover or die, even if you miss and have to reload they're generally so tagged that finishing them isn't an issue.

 

Saying that hitbox behavior and latency should factor in isn't much of an arguement because the majority of the time, they aren't an issue, and i tend to reg better with the .45 than I do primaries while lagging. (really though it makes no sense)

 

I do own both the fr0g and .45, and I generally feel that the .45 is just a tad too powerful. Maybe you're right and reducing its mag to 6 or reload time may be better, as it would solidify itself as a finisher, or a hard to use psuedo primary with no leeway for error. Though I feel that making CA have a little more effect on it, or making it so it cannot spray near as fast may be a slightly better option.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[Rehtaelle 18]

I still personally don't see all that much value in taking the .45 over the ACT44. Not that's *worse* or anything, but the similarities are so tight, especially under the notion that they're both great finisher weapons. (This opinion brought to you by an N-HVR main)