Tenginima
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Posts posted by Tenginima
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On 9/14/2021 at 7:54 PM, Frosi said:While I can understand the frustration, it is not like this change is only for the worse. Yes, there will be awful matchmaking moments but I wouldn't say its nearly as bad as some people are trying to make it out to be, yes you will sometimes face incredibly talented players but at the same time you can also have those players on your team, sometimes it'll be one-sided in your favor and sometimes in the enemies, its not perfect by any means but its far from unplayable and more often than not you will still play against the same players you would've faced on silver districts, just because they're gold, doesn't mean they're good.
On top of that, no threat segregation also means there are 3 to 4 districts to play on at peak times, if one district is stacked with good players, you can now opt into a different district instead to avoid situations in which you feel like you are outclassed more often than not, this also means that there is usually two Financials and one Waterfront districts which allows players to freely level their characters without feeling stuck because people refuse to play Waterfront, this for example is one of the few reasons I've been playing as of late, since it lets me level some of my other characters without having to constantly check https://will.io/apb/ in hopes that a Waterfront district is populated.
Jericho has also seen a decent increase in player numbers (although still fairly low) which means that the change is doing what it was intended to do, while it causes some minor issues on Citadel, those issues have workarounds that work at just about any time of day other than the early mornings.
In the end, I feel like a lot of people have had their mentality crushed by this change, a lot of players assume every gold they see is one of those golds that wouldn't be the ones they would've seen on Bronze districts and must therefore be gods at the game, this is wrong and almost every single Gold I've gotten as random team mates would've been better suited as a Silver player if Threat was better at judging player skill instead of arbitrary inflation to their MMR by doing objectives or collecting all sorts of passive Score gains which are no indication of player skill let alone how well they're doing.
Ofc Frosi of all people lowkey supports this decision, just so that he can go up against people he can actually fight.
Matches are hilariously boring now, it's so bad I just have my brain turned off half of the time and the other half when you actually fight decent players im ethier to high or bored to give a shit anymore.
And fyi why are LO even listening to your balancing suggestions, even all the apes left in this game with half a brain realises that the shit you spout is some serious asscrack shit. It's people like you that make these insane counterintuitive nerfs and balance changes that only bog down the meta into the most boring shit i've seen in for ever.-
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Todesklinge might aswell be in charge of balancing at this point, legit would make this game more interesting
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Le fucking mao
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Thing is with LO's weapon balancing is that they think making guns clunky and or useless in their non intended roles = balance.
i'll give a few examples. Mostly based on AR's.
All AR's except the misery atm have no ability to jumpshot whatsoever, yet the strong people in the game can still outperform and do pretty much just as well as they did before the nerf, only difference is that now they're just more clunky and unfun to use. APB is a game about mobility, LO should capitalize on that. Like take the FAR and NTEC, both guns still dominate, if you're like me you're still killing OCA's and shit 9/10 times as long as you got a decent position, we still get similar scores and still play relatively the same, only difference is that we use our secondaries a bit more in those situations where we would've jumped with an AR instead.
Basically, nerf to jumpshoting was to ensure that you wouldn't win in CQC battles, which was a flawed argument to begin with, as jumping made you an easy tracable target, and if you lose at that range where said tactic is even somewhat effective with a cqc gun then you're the one that is garbage. However, with this nerf now being here for quite a while, the result is basically the same as before, it's just that instead of winning those obscure 1 out of 50 engagement where you jump, you either lose it or win it with your secondary, basically a 50/50.
My point? The nerf didn't really change anything fundamentally, as the people who lose CQC against non CQC based weaponry still lose, whether you can jumpshot or not, so the nerf just made the guns more clunky. Lmao even the SHAW with HS3 can jumpshot, and that's a fucking machinegun, same with the NSSW.OBIR nerf just made the gun clunky and made the OBEYA into the de-facto rifle, reverse QSing was strong, but def not op as it was only viable with the FBW and really was only strong if you had a corner.... and corners make every gun good.
The result of that nerf just made the OBIR clunky, and somewhat unusable CQC but not in a fun or intuitive way.
snubnose nerf, where they nerf the worst secondary in the game or "change it" because it was abused with literally 1 weapon in the game that had a chance of success of like 1% lmao because of the wonky hitreg. So instead of you know, nerfing the JG with literally 1 damage, which would ruin the combo they change the snub *clap clap clap*.removing rayscaling without realising that some guns where only good because of it, basically having no hindsight whatsoever for those guns, ahem showstopper ahem, so now the nfas, shredder and showstopper, both regular and legendary is completely fucking useless, but with rayscaling was super OP (except for the shredder. so instead of being like "guys maybe we should give the nfas soime love after the removal of rayscaling" they just go "fuck it!" and takes it away with nothing else, making the gun just awful. ffs they should give it a faster firrate or atleast a bit more range, like 3m or 5.
Need I continue?
This is the nr1 with LO, they have a good heart but listen to the wrong inferior players and do not understand subtlety. "OCA is op" ok well just nerf 1 thing maybe firerate "NO we're nerfing 3+ things!" oh ok... what about the misery? "GIVE IT 4 BUFFS AND CALL IT A DAY" so it's now a 5 shot laser beam that does 240 damage with barely any recoil? "YES" oh ok... hey the fang is kinda op what about that? "REMOVE ITS RANGE, MAKE IT A 9STK AND MAKE IT BLOOM LIKE CRAZY"..... why not just, do one of those?instead of changing 1 stat, and in a small margin, they do these sweeping changes, these massive changes that just makes guns extremely good or just kinda worthless, misery was good before it's latest buff, it had very high recoil but very and I mean VERY strong TTK potential for long range, it was high risk high reward and high skill, but now, with the recoil buff, it's just a fucking laser beam, and instead of realising that people didn't use it cause it's an obscure armas gun and not very easily excess able by most players (ticket grinding even at 255 is very long for a perm weapon, especially one with such a high skill ceiling) and now it's just kinda op, and still no one uses it.
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LO's heart is in the right place, but they fundamentally do not understand APB nor it's balancing and gunplay. They also seem to think Balance = fun, which really isn't the case, especially since APB is such an RNG based game to begin with. Which is a bit funny considering APB has one of the lowest and highest skill ceilings of any game i've played, as the difference between a 3k hour player and a 100 hour player is massive, but 2 3k hour players against eachother and it becomes clear how how much RNG places the win in ethier person's perspective.
Here's a good example, the removal of jumpshooting from all but 1 AR that is actually viable, namely the misery. What did this really accomplish? Do we see les AR's or are they less effective? Not really, sure they're a bit worse in cqc, however even with jumpshooting you would do better in 8/10 situations with just using your secondary, there's a reason why the 45 and fbw was so favored with the ntec / far.
People said jumpshooting was to strong cqc, but this logic is so flawed for the simple reason that if you jump, your trajectory is completely predictable, you're putting yourself in a situation where you are a far easier target, then if you were to just dodge with a secondary. And for anyone that had a cqc gun and lost to someone with a 100% predictable and easily trackable jump, should just stop playing the game, especially since you could jumpshot during the PMG's prime days, and tbf, if you lost with any meta CQC gun against a jumping ntec or far, you shouldn't even be allowed to complain about said balance in the first place.
People used to make the claim that it made them too strong in cqc, yet I just don't see it, personally it was never an issue for me to beat, and it was very predictable when people would do it and that leaves us at fun vs balance.
Is there an argument to be made that it was a bit unbalanced as AR's wasn't intended to be used that way? Sure, atleast in the sense that it wasn't intentional, however the point still stands that in no circumstance, if you are skilled, should you get beaten over and over by jumping AR's, especially when you have a CQC based gun. And to that argument, there are many guns that are used in ways they aren't supposed to, yet they are still not OP. The SHAW can jumpshot better then an ntec, yet I don't hear people cry about it when you jump around corners despite the fact that it's technically not intended to be that way.
So what happened when every AR lost their ability to jump? They are so much more boring to use, and tbh not even that much worse, they're just streamlined in their roles more, but gameplay wise they are just simply more boring. APB is a game about mobility, that's why so many stationary guns are usually pretty bad in comparison with mobile ones, and since the game is about mobility, we should treat it as such.
Also I find it ironic that everyone bitched about the NTEC, especially with its jumping, but now since every AR other then the misery has gotten that treatment we're basically in a situation where the ntec is yet again, king over all AR's, as now none can jumpshot except one, and even before that was the case the ntec was still king. Hell even the vobra got a jumpshot nerf, the cobra... one of the worst guns in the game, a fun gun sure, but really? its ability to jump was op? ok then...But this is sadly what happens when idiots get to vote on how the game should be balanced, This is why the game should be balanced around the top players, not the other way around, as with most of our suggestions, it keeps balance and fun in mind.
Also if you're really that alien against jumpshooting, just go thru with one of the suggestions I heard once, make so that in order to jump with AR's, Rifles etc while adsing, must use HS3 otherwise they won't get a jump modifier while adsing. I would be fine with this as HS3 is the mainstray anyway. -
I am the cringelord
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4 hours ago, Hexerin said:I told you people that the rayscaling revert would cause these issues, but ya'll just downvoted me to oblivion.
You get what you deserve, and I have no sympathy to spare for your tears now.
Rayscaling was incredibly broken however, as yes while it made shotguns somewhat more reliable, it made them way too forgiving, as any half-assed Removed inappropriate language ~@mayii scrub could hit 30% of their pellets on you and do close to 50% and more health damage, meaning that it made aiming very trivial. Also it made the Thunder and NFAS with IR3 hilariously broken.
It also was more of a band-aid solution to a deep serrated wound that is bleeding bad, hitreg should be a more important area of change and after that we can start looking at actually changing shotguns.
Also spelled Removed inappropriate language ~@mayii the way I did cause the fuking word censorship is stupid-
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9 hours ago, n0vaxp2 said:But if the mods are supposed to be like sidegrades (i.e. the benefits and downsides of the mod equal out) then not using a green mod at all should be just as viable as using one, right? Yet that's not what we see in game. Buffing the other green mods to be as competitive as Clotting Agent would arguably be even worse because then there's absolutely no reason to not use a green mod, further screwing over new players. These mods should provide a change in play style, not be an overall upgrade.
Because that's impossible to achieve more or less, asymmetric game design is a lot harder than symmetrical game design. If you have mods that are supposed to have up and down sides, no matter how you twist and turn it, there will always be a "better" alternative. This is why CA3 is the strongest compared to other green mods, cause it fits in APB's game mechanics way better than anything else currently.
And to be fair, they should just make CA3 the default green mod at this point, basically giving the CA3 stat modifiers as the default values.
I have heard people say that if you do this then things like flack jacket will be OP cause you get the reduced explosion damage modifier + the health regen of CA3, tho this is not how it would work in practice, as all they would have to do is make it so that flack jacket adds the same health modifying values as the current no green mod setup, aka default health regen.
So it would work exactly the same as it does now as if you made the change.
Also APB should be balanced around CA3, not the other way around, as the game becomes way too sluggish without it.
Also they should just remove Kevlar at this point, I don't see how they could buff it without making it either OP or just even more niche. Currently it's just an annoyance, it handicaps its user, and annoys enemy players, as you aren't really harder to kill, just slightly slower, which means that at MOST you save yourself 1 death from player 1, but you're now 85 and is gonna get killed anyway. So at most, kev3 gives the user like, 1 "free" kill in very very specific situations lol. -
32 minutes ago, 404 said:every smg sucks compared to the pmg, but i consider the pmg to be out of balance
i imagine the buffed norsemen guns slotting in as longer ranged capable smgs like the curse or the c2, except where those guns are limited by the requirement to tap/burst fire the norsemen can make use of the large mag and accuracy to consistently ballpark a (slightly higher) min ttk
Sure its a good idea, tho Curse currently is more consistent then the PMG and OCA, altough its ttk is slighlty to high to be quite the machine that the PMG is (atleast in missions)
However Curse is hilariously looked down upon, it is by far one of the strongest SMG's in the game for consistent damage over time, and one of the few guns in the game where you can put CJ3 on it without ruining it, and actually benefiting from it. -
39 minutes ago, Nanometic said:It's 11 stk in live as of right now, not 10.
reducing it's current bloom so you can actually use CJ would be nice.
Maybe a little faster fire rate, making its ttk more competitive, doing this would also speeding up it's 'buff' effects.
It doesn't need drastic changes, a minor buff would be fine, be it to the fire rate or damage or even a bigger mag so it can actually make use of it's mods besides the last half of the mag only utilizing it.
Ah thought it was 10 stk my bad, wouldn't they still be vastly underpowered against OCA's but specifically PMG's and Manics tho? Even with such a buff?
9 minutes ago, 404 said:i'd like to see it be a more accurate smg with a large magazine but higher ttk/stk rather than another knockoff oca rng-fest
something like the nano is to the fbw, except for primary weapons
I mean I kinda of agree, but due to the current meta, even with that change they would still probably be very bad against other SMG's, also why isn't ODIN as standalone weapon? I still wanna buy it lol
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Eh maybe, i'd still wanna try tho, dont you think a .75 ttk would be to high?
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Aight as the title says, I was thinking a lot about the Norsemen and what could be done with them, and one of the ideas that came to mind, which i'm not sure if it would break the guns or not, is still something I would like to share.
So I will break it up in 3 buff suggestions, each heavier then the other one, to see what would fit.
First change is simple, a damage buff to make it a 9 STK gun instead of a 10 STK. Personally I don't think this fixes the issue with the Norsemen but I do believe a damage buff would do wonders with them.
Second and this is the more significant one, how about we make the inherent weapon mods of all the Norsemen (the runes I can't recall their name) in the weapon stats themselves, rather then being mods. So for instance, the ODIN would have all the different Norsemen mods, but it would be part of the gun itself while also being a 3 slot weapon.
Yes that means that you can put CJ3 on the accuracy buff, Magpull on the Mag reload buff and so on.
Third buff change, 1 less STK + the previous change, meaning a 9stk 3slot Norsemen series.
I would like to see this tried, it would def keep the Norsemen's identity and unique shtick but also (hopefully) make them somewhat competitive.
Personally I don't think this would make them OP, as even with let's say the accuracy buff mod and CJ3, CJ3 would still have its effect, just a bit mitigated and so on, cause currently the problem with the norsemen is that it takes too long for them to get going, and they are by far the worst primary in the game, a fun gun, but a terrible gun.
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Just now, 404 said:no need for anything so complicated, slapping hs3 on the fang instead of ir3 would have solved that particular fiasco
but people spazzed out about “paying money for an rfp with extended range”, so orbit didn’t do it
That works too. But as usual, the community whining about shit they don't know anything about gets the attention. It's funny tho since the RFP wasn't *that* good, even when the Fang was busted. Sure it was better then the RSA and 44 at their respective jobs whilst also being good at medium and decent at close. But that was the thing, it would still get melted on by 45's and FBW's close and close - Midrange IMO.
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6 hours ago, 404 said:i think presets are kind of a trap for new (lets pretend they exist for a second) or inexperienced players looking to spend money - the lower price and access to level 3 mods are pretty good lures but presets are usually not the optimal setup, and modification and/or weapon balance is subject to change and render presets worthless
presets also lead to stupid situations like the rfp, where people whining about "paying real money" for a preset stopped orbit from doing the easy balance move and instead they ended up nuking the rfp
It's funny cause I noticed this aswell, the RFP is absolute trash tier atm in the game, the Fang takes the cake as the worst secondary in the game by far, i'd even take a R2 or snub over this crappy gun. Case and point of not understanding how a nerf is supposed to be made, I told people that "nerf the fang, leave the stock RFP and Talon alone" and they did the opposite... turning this somewhat ok secondary (stock rfp and talon) into the worst secondary by far.
Should've nerfed the fang, and make it into an actual long range secondary, 3 burst of slow burst fire but very very accurate and like 45m effective range or so. -
As the title says, when will this be released so I can get one, don't like the TM's sound, and Entete is just shit, and stock C2 isn't super exciting.
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PMG / NTEC / FAR / AMG and FBW, Silenced if you want it to be as easy as you can get it
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10 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:OCA never needed buffed to begin with so i don't know what you're going on about. All they did was litterally revert it to prebuff ttk. That's not the issue here. // The OCA needed some type of buff, a buff in between the overbuffed OCA and the one we have today would be the best way to do it, aka the OCA after the first ttk buff (firerate) not the one after, the one after overdid it. Also the Cooling jacket nerf on the OCA is terrible, as even CJ1 ruins that gun's bloom, making that mod essentially useless. This wasn't a problem when it was buffed in both areas as you could use CJ1 or 2 (as the gun was overall slighlty more accurate, less bloom) and it already had a quicker firerate, which meant that CJ wasn't as "needed". Compare that to the PMG, up to CJ2 you will get a barely noticeable change in bloom, only CJ3 adds a significant downside. Also the PMG, like the whispers have a crouch modifier, the stock OCA doesn't, which even before the nerf to the OCA, made the PMG overall better. Was the PMG ever OP? No, it isn't what it should be however. i've never thought the PMG is op, but rather a gun that isn't fitting with its current design. I want a PMG change, not a nerf. I would go about it like this, either make the PMG shot slower or have one more STK, but make it a bit to a lot more accurate, so that it isn't the RNG cannon it currenly is. The reason why the PMG is perceived as OP is because all other competitors got nerfed, and also because when you have good RNG with the PMG you get insane TTK's at 30m+. This is a fundamental design problem with a weapon, as if a weapon is OP when RNG is good, but kind of "eh" when RNG is bad, that proves that the gun itself is in a bad spot, and needs a CHANGE, nethier nerf or buff.
Effectively, the PMG when RNG is good has a low effective TTK, what is effective ttk? it is the more reasonable TTK that you will achieve overall, basically, the AMG, NFA9 and SHAW has super low TTK's but all of these weapons (except the AMG) has a hard time reaching their minimum TTK, the SHAW because of its recoil, NFA9 because of randomness, this means that in some fights you will min TTK people in as such of a short time as almost 0.5 sec, or you will get a 1+ sec ttk. This means that these weapons are seen as kind of "eh" because of a bad effective TTK. Basically, effective TTK is the TTK that isn't necessarily low or high, but a TTK that can be consistently achieved. This is why the NTEC was perceived as OP, as it had a low effective TTK, more because of how the gun worked, not because of some misguided view of OPness.
This is why low effective TTK weapons combined with rather easy to use mechanics will always be superior to other type of guns, and in turn used as meta weapons (mostly).PMG got overbuffed in 2013 and it's been an issue since. // ^ Point debunked above.
Nerfing the NTEC was necessary regardless, the PMG however has been an issue long before the issues with the NTEC became known (you can thank HB for hiding them). // There was never an issue with the NTEC, nerfing it proved my point, as in case you haven't noticed, the NTEC is more or less the exact same, you just can't jump around corners with it, but due to the fact that the jumping got nerfed, people, instead of learning to play around it, went to PMG's, shotguns and rifles. This is more due to the psychology of "nerf = shit gun". The NTEC still has the lowest effective TTK of all AR's, it is still the most moddable, it is still overall a great AR. But those who want to jump around corners with AR's and overall non intended CQC weapons? They went to FAR's and OBIR's instead, just as I predicted.
This is exactly what I was talking about before, this is also why the goal post got moved and never fixed, as I said, Jumping was never an issue with the NTEC, sure it could win some CQC battles, but you'd be better of combining NTEC with FBW cqc tbh, and again, you can do all that jumping crap with every other AR and rifle in the game, which again, proved my point, as now people just went over to those weapons and jumps around corners with them instead, it never fixed the core issue of the game and before you say it, no, nerfing all weapons jump accuracy will still not fix the issue, as again, the problems with CQC is that a lot of CQC guns are just not good enough in CQC when you consider that they can do jack shit medium or long ranged, compared to other weapon classes. This is again, why nerfing certain weapons won't fix the core problems with CQC in this game, and if you nerf the PMG, you'll just add more fuel to the fire of a super stale meta.
Also shotguns were just poor, not op per say but poor, some shotguns were op with rayscaling though, like thunder and nfas.10 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:The goalpost never moved, it's just that everyone was more preoccupied with the NTEC and the overpowered shotguns, rather than the PMG like they normally would have been after the shotgun rework. Just because one "topic" gains more prevalence and "hides" an issue, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, nor didn't before hand. // ^ Point debunked above.
Merged.
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And just as I said would happen, did happen, nerf the NTEC, combine it with some other nerfs (OCA specifically) and we would end up exactly where we are right now, strange that innit? Almost as if I know what i'm talking about, shocker, I know.
Also this didn't fix the issue with APB's meta, only enhanced it, and just as I said in my numerous NTEC nerf posts, we essentially just moved the goal post, instead of putting the ball in the net. -
Why is that even such a trigger for you tho, some people just wanna aim, and stretching playing at min helps with that, is that tryharding?
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2 hours ago, 404 said:idk where you got the ntec from (it’s not mentioned in your quote) and you’ve added an extra second somewhere in your ca3 calaculations as well
Cause i'm the one who's been smoking clearly, what a fucking fail, though anyway, my point about the scout is the same
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19 hours ago, Acornie said:
Fire Interval of stock Scout: 1.750 sec. (CJ3 makes it 1.628 sec) If this chart above is accurate, they are literally healing before you can get the second shot off, take a fraction of a second too long to aim the next shot and they will be healed just enough to survive a second shot, CA3 just counters the scout way too well.
EDIT: it's a habit to explain and inform people of gameplay "details" like this, not supposed to be a "Ur'e dumb" thing. If this isn't what's going then the only other explanation is a general hitreg issue that'd affect all guns. But for the most part that is not really a common occurrence
Dude, have you been smoking? The TTK of the ntec is 0.7 sec. it shots every 0.11 sec roughly. Fucking hell if you shot once every 1.628 sec with CJ3 your ttk would be insanely high. So no they don't literally heal before you get a second shot of. Proof, CA3 has a health delay of 1.6 sec, that means after 1.6 you need an additional 2 sec to heal 125hp so 3.6 sec in total to heal 125hp, which means you need around 3.8ish secs before the scout needs to shot a 3rd time since the scout does 550, the scout has a ttk of 1.750 sec.
So no, the OP is right, the scout has serious hitreg issues, just like every gun in the game, but you notice it more with the scout cause each bullet is a lot more valuable to its performance then let's say an NTEC. -
It was, as expected over nerfed, especially if you consider how LO has gone about buffing weapons in the past, remember the Shredder with rayscaling before they tuned that gun down somewhat?
And as I preached before this misshap went off into production, it won't fix the (and didn't fix) the core issue with APB's gun and gameplay balance, and just as I said would happen, Obeyas, OBIR's and Carbines took its place. Now you could say STAR and FAR aswell, though those 2 weapons aren't as high in priority in high tier gameplay.
However it does make sense from a business perspective, LO needs to make money, pleasing the masses, even though they are factually wrong, is a "smart" move on their end, no matter what we say about it.
And as a sidenote, although the shotgun changes are a good change, it also made the meta more stale, since as I preached as well, the PMG now finally took the crown as the De Facto CQC weapon. -
On 10/5/2019 at 4:12 PM, Revoluzzer said:Alright, let's go with the OBIR stuff first. I agree it's a powerful rifle. 990 health damage in two bursts can be pretty problematic. However they're not guaranteed, since you still need to actually land 6 shots.
Can it do a lot? Yes-ish. It's of course great at long range, which it should be. It's okay at mid-range due to burst fire (corner-popping). It does more than tickle at sniper range. But below mid range you flat out need to be better than your opponent to beat them (this includes the use of "reverse" quick-switching). The N-Tec could kill you faster in CQC - purely on a technical level - than it takes to pull out most secondaries and fire them often enough to get a kill. And before that you still need to fire and hit an entire OBIR burst.
The OBIR is harder to use than the N-Tec and still won't give you an edge over an equally skilled opponent anywhere from close to mid range. There is certainly no "enlightenment" when it comes to the power of the OBIR. It's simply a decent weapon within its niche.
-It does give you a significant advantage, as it brings out the strongest aspect of gunplay in this game, corners. OBIR is a de-factor Corner popping weapon, it is by design (either intentionally or not) 1 of the strongest weapons in the game when you have a solid corner, and even without a corner, your burst potential will damage an ntec user so hard, that even if he wins, he will still be 85.
On 10/5/2019 at 4:12 PM, Revoluzzer said:
Balancing the N-Tec is not the be-all end-all, mind you. It's just a fix to one of the most egregious balancing issues. It will probably uncover more issues, albeit minor ones. People say now the Obeya might become the new "meta"? Entirely possible. Then that needs looking at. Others say people will instead switch to [insert a load of different weapons here]? That sounds like a more healthy overall balance to me.
The general goal should be that more different weapons get used and players switch weapons depending on their environment. It's entirely common to see a whole team on a mission use only N-Tecs. Or N-Tecs and N-HVRs. It's just as common to see the top 6 players of each faction in Fight Club to use only N-Tecs. Or N-Tecs and N-HVRs. That's not good balance, that points to a major flaw.
- The problem with those top players is that just like in missions, they go for what is easiest, like the PMG in abington, rather then actually using what's best. they'd get more or less the same results with a FAR, the difference? FAR is a much less accessible weapon due to it being a event, armas and joker store weapon. It should be a regular stock gun, just like the NTEC. Secondly the Misery with CJ3 is stronger then the NTEC, as with the massive buffs it received, you can literally 4 shot people without pausing, and make them 85, then wait around 0.05 secs and shot again, and they are dead. It isn't used as often, because it is much harder to use. And what you just mentioned proved my point, the ntec is simply a tool for its environment, add more cover, cars and better attack spots around the action districts and the NTEC would not be as dominant.
On 10/5/2019 at 4:12 PM, Revoluzzer said:Now you look at all the weapons and say the N-Tec is the gold standard for weapon balance. And this might be a valid argument if all other weapons were utter trash and did not even perform well at their one, dedicated role. But on the one hand this isn't the case. Most weapons excel in their niche and only there - which is what they should do. Unlike the N-Tec, which not only excels at mid-range, but also does well at close and long range. Then on the other hand you need to be aware of gameplay design as a whole. There is a reason most pointman weapons gravitated towards a 0.70s TTK, while assault rifles targeted 0.75s. This creates a hard, technical limitation at which range assault rifles can not mechanically beat pointman weapons below a certain range. Of course random factors do play into this, but the favour always lends towards the pointman class.
That's also why the rifleman class hovered around 1.00s and snipers around 1.75s. It simply means below a certain range these weapons need to rely on luck or the player being flat out better than the opponent. Why is all of this important? Here it comes:
If you balance everything around the N-Tec, you need to buff a lot of weapons. A lot. And this will come with a plethora of issues.
First, we are already aware that the N-Tec does a lot of things very well. In order to compete with that, other weapons need to do a lot of things very well. At which point you might still be able to have them handle a little different, but overall it doesn't matter all that much which weapon you actually use. They will all do well. I like to call this "The Call of Duty Problem"; all guns play more or less the same.
-The ntec doesn't excel at long range, it simply can do the job decently well, if it excelled then any scrub would be able to dominate competent long range weapon users. it is a made up fallacy that the NTEC is this "be all end all weapon" for everything and anything.
On 10/5/2019 at 4:12 PM, Revoluzzer said:Second, we are now also aware that weapon balance does not only concern weapons, but gameplay as a whole. If you need to buff a lot of weapons to get them on the same level as the N-Tec you will bring down the average TTK. Since the game world already struggles with the current average (i.e. oftentimes running from one corner to another is almost certain death), a lower average would be even worse (i.e. running from one corner to another is now certain death). I don't have a good name for this, but I like to compare it to "hardcore mode" in most games. It's hardly fun to die really quick (as far as I'm concerned), but its even worse when you have such long respawn and return times (i.e. getting back in combat) as in APB. In CoD "hardcore mode" kind of works, because you will spawn right back in combat anyway.
Third, we are certainly also aware that buffing a lot of weapons is a lot of work, with room for a lot of error. So not only will you make the game worse as a whole, you will also open yourself up to creating even bigger issues while you are at it.
Bringing down the TTK isn't true at all, you can bring down the effective TTK, not the literal TTK. By reducing RNG. The issue that plagues this game the most is its inconsistency, I would rather have longer TTK's, but TTK's that are much more reliable. Secondly, if you are that tagged so often, you need to take more cover and not be as aggressive, if I am able to pull Killstreak 2's out of my patootie in abington with almost any gun extremely often, then it is much more up to the driver, not the car. Secondly, it's a fallacy that you need to buff a lot of guns, as a lot of guns already beat the NTEC in their niches. Even if you disgard their niches, they'll only lose to an NTEC in the NTEC's territory (jack of all trades), and those guns that need buffs against the NTEC specifically, are far and few inbetween and the buffs they need are tiny, and frankly, they shouldn't even be buffed to specifically fight the NTEC, they could just be slighlty buffed outside their niches, which sure, would make them more like "every other gun", however the magic in numbers is that, tiny differences in said numbers can make massive differences. The SWARM is more or less the strongest midrange LMG WHEN you have a corner and defensive opportunities. But it can still do "fine" outside of it's niche. And frankly, this whole "the ntec kills everything" has been blown out of proportions, as true, no gun in the game is as good at being a jack of all trades, but just like that, the NTEC will NEVER win against a competent player that uses a proper "counter", SWARM behind cover, OBIR with QS-ing and popping, NSSW at 30m+ OCA, PMG, CSG, JG etc at 10 -15 M. The ntec shines at it nice 15 - 30 M niche, outside of that it will, mathematically lose towards other more suited weapons. That those weapons are to niche is a fallacy, as they are perfectly able to fight other weapons outside of their intended roles.
On 10/5/2019 at 4:12 PM, Revoluzzer said:Fight Club is not representative, because you will usually be low on health yourself or encounter enemies who are low on health. Furthermore you will usually encounter a large group of opponents or be supported by a large group of allies.
The game is very much supposed to provide team-oriented, objective-based gameplay in varying environments. As such weapon balance needs to support this kind of gameplay, while Fight Club is merely an offshoot where all bets are off.
Sure you can use it for additional data once you feel comfortable with the results you get from Action Districts. That's like taking a street car on the race track for additional data. But it shouldn't be your focus at all.
FC represents the pinnacle of individual skill, it has a direct correlation towards personal performance in missions, not team-based performance mind you, but personal, and all bets are far from off, if they were, there would not be a meta at all, and everyone would just jerk off and use all kinds of weapons over and over.
This is frankly my last post on this subject, work started 1 month ago hence why I replied to late, as I could not be asked to do it. I will only respond to this as this one last time, because frankly, now money is on my mind, and the balance of this crap game isn't super important anymore.
On 10/5/2019 at 4:12 PM, Revoluzzer said:I do agree that the entire test district situation is less than ideal, though. A more hands on approach in the live environment (i.e. small changes every few days) would probably work better.
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On 9/28/2019 at 10:12 AM, Revoluzzer said:That doesn't make a lick of sense.
Baylan Shipping heavily favours long range weapons (rifleman, marksman, sniper). The Asylum heavily favours short range weapons (rifleman, pointman). Coincidentally the N-Tec does well in both, which might lead you to believe it's perfectly balanced and everything else is broken. But it's not the weapons that are broken, it's your argument.
My argument just as my logic is flawless in this instance. It is the most balanced weapon, as both those maps prove that, missions prove this, everything points to this. I've stated all the reasons plenty of times before but let me ask you this then, why is it so. that in the top hierachy of players, in terms of skill. They all (except me) think that the OBIR is stronger then the NTEC? It's pretty simple really, the OBIR is stronger then the NTEC, once you get good with it. Because of reverse QSing, and because of it's massive burst damage. I disagree that it is OP, but what you will see in the case of APB, is that everyone will flood the NTEC bandwagon and hate on it, while those that are enlightened, are those that truly understand what beats it.
You can look at it like this, NTEC = Easy, can do most things.
OBIR = Harder (not hard, but harder then the NTEC), can do most things, even slighlty better then the NTEC, if you are good enough.
Besides, what's your proof then? you say that my way of looking at it makes it so that everything else is broken while the ntec is the epitome of balance. What do you say then? Give me 1 reason, too why the NTEC is actually OP, and why you think so. I can assure you, the reason why it seems OP to you is a lack of skill. But, I still want to hear it.
On 9/28/2019 at 1:07 PM, Solamente said:i can’t believe the fc argument is still going tbh, fc can never be the balancing method because it’s not the primary game mode
its like trying to balance character health around riot lol
I can't belive you'd be so sad enough to actually take one of my quotes, edit it, and then post it to make me look like an idiot, that is the proof that you lost the argument.
18 hours ago, illgot said:You can balance one weapon that is a little too good up close, amazing at medium range and decent at mid-long range or you can buff 45 other weapons around the Ntec, which sounds more reasonable.
It has nothing to do with reason, it has to do with what is factually correct, and what's lazy. Nerfing the NTEC is the lazy way to do it.
The current gunplay is shit
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