ScLines

There have been many testimonials of people spending lots of money on these bad designs/practices which have caused people to take drastic actions to curb the bad habits. So it's not really an opinion anymore but more of facts. Just because you have things under control, doesn't mean everybody else is as fortunate. Who makes profit on a game that is featured on the website is irrelevant. They are still games, no matter if they are AAA titles or not. They chose not to have mictrotransactions/loot boxes, their choice whether they make revenue or not. In-game advertising is not considered microtransactions/loot boxes, but they are still similar to microtransactions/loot boxes because of bad design/practice in my opinion. An NBA game recently released tried to make unskippable ingame-advertising during loading screens as a thing which most people disliked, it could make profits but to me they are still just as bad as microtransactions. Same bad design all over again in my opinion. Ah. This one-time fee that could easily have been the same amount of money you could of paid to get the game in the first place has now been turned into a microtransaction. See how manipulative it is? Game is free but it isn't free when you have to pay for it in a microtransaction. That's why I still don't see them in the positive light of things. Boils down to opinion again. Because this has been done way before the other bad designs came in. Subcriptions are payments you make to continue using or playing the products on a timely basis that is not similar to a microtransaction in any way. A big difference between the two but some people still like to nitpick on these two. I see it this way and you can disagree if you wish, it's not changing my viewpoint. Your point is? What implementations are all the same? All psychological manipulations are all the same in an industry? If that is what you are asking then there are similarities but there are the bad ones I specifically covered many times on which ones I think don't belong. Microtransactions/loot boxes, with both having psychological manipulations in the gaming industry that I think shouldn't belong at all. And if they are not getting removed/banned then they should be regulated. It should be for Adults Only. Simple as that. To me. Loot boxes are gambling because of the similarities on getting a random chance when you pay real money no matter who tries to deny this. Microtransactions are not gambling but they are still bad game designs, and can have people with shopping addictions hooked into spending lots of money similar to gambling even if they are two different types of addictions. In conclusion, they are still both bad designs/practices no matter what people will say in order to defend them. Two different types of addictions that are just bad in a videogame that I think should be regulated. Feel free to disagree as that is not going to change my mind and probably neither do you.

There are many games online you could say are free to play and they are not just limited to our smartphones stores on Android and Google Play. Go to miniclip.com and armorgames.com. Most of those have no microtransactions/lootboxes. You do not necessarily need microtransactions to make a profit if you have ads on a website etc. Speaking of which, I don't like unskippable ads in certain games that force you to watch just so they can make a profit but thankfully some let you remove that by paying a one-time fee for example in some apps/websites. Some games don't give you the option to remove ads when playing a game. Even with this, I still kind of disagree with those practices. Too bad. Because that's my opinion and stance on microtransactions/loot boxes. There's no option for those players that have shopping/gambling addictions to get hooked on these bad design/practices. Having them restricted to AO is not a bad choice in my opinion. Because microtransactions/loot boxes are still worse designs/practices in a video game compared to subscription or paying a certain price just to play the game at all. This is just my opinion and that's not going to change for me. And if that new US anti-loot box bill/microtransaction does come to law none of us even you can argue against it very much now can we? Even if it wouldn't go through my opinion on loot boxex/microtransactions is not going to change. Again my opinion here but video games used to be much more simple until corporate greed came in and brainwashed some players thinking these new bad designs/practices are good sociable behavior when they are not. Not everybody will see it my way but that is my opinion and that will stay in my eyes. Not talking coin pusher machines here. I'm talking Poker, Table games such as Roulette/Blackjack/Baccarat and Slot Machines. You need to be over legal age just play any of those and these are all common in most casinos. And I am still making the comparison of microtransactions/loot boxes to gambling/shopping addiction similar to those games you play in casinos because they are similar in a way no matter what people say. That is my opinion that will not change and I don't feel bad if these games with microtransaction/loot boxes will get restricted to Adults Only (ESRB rated). Makes some developers think twice before going for easy money that mainly benefits them but hurts people with addictions (especially minors/children).

F2P games do exist and they work. But I do not agree seeing them have any microtransactions/loot boxes of any kind whatsoever. With the new legislation in the works in the US, I don't mind seeing the games with bad practices/designs in Adults Only rated games by ESRB. At least that way it is not exposed to minors even if I don't like seeing those practices. And in my opinion paying a monthly sum of money is a decent way of supporting the developers. I still think that is more fair than any in-game microtransactions/lootboxes of any kind. But as mentioned on my previous answer, if they won't get rid of these bad practices at least they should only be available in an Adults Only (ESRB rated) game which is something I don't mind seeing despite not liking those practices one bit. Then you disagree then. I still see the addictive nature of people spending money on microtransactions/loot boxes either way. Especially when minors are involved. Once again, I still don't like those bad designs in a video game but if they were to stay they should only belong in an Adults Only (ESRB rated) game. That is a not a bad compromise to me with what the legislation is proposing but I still disagree with those practices heavily. If they were confined to Adults Only games then that is something I can live with, but I still prefer not to see microtransactions/loot boxes in games in general. I will stay on the disagree side of things then. In my opinion there is a big difference on these mechanics on a video game than a supermarket. You may not see them as all bad but I think they are bad designs also. Especially to minors and anyone with shopping/gambling addictions. And as I said in my previous answers, the only compromise with the new legislation I see is restricting these bad/predatory practices in an Adults Only (ESRB rated) game. I still dislike those bad practices but if they were put in an Adults Only game then it is a fair compromise. Just like how you need to be over a legal age to go to a casino. It is that simple. You can have it without microtransactions. That is where I will continue to disagree. But as said already on my above answers, you can keep your F2P games with those bad designs/practices if the game was rated Adults Only (ESRB rated) if the new legislations will hammer down on these bad practices. At least adults know what they get into and can handle or suffer the consequences on these bad practices unlike minors/children. Sure. But I still disagree with the bad designs/monetizations on those F2P games. And to add what I said as before in this very same post, I still disagree with what I think is bad in F2P games in general but I don't mind seeing games with the bad monetizations rated Adults Only (ESRB rated). That way 'most' people are not as likely to be exposed to these practices. Children are easily duped into spending money with the shopping/gambling addiction which I despise of. I doubt they will remove these bad practices as mentioned already, but confining them to Adults Only games I can live with despite still not liking those practices.

1) When players are being turned to payers. I'm not talking of people paying the game before they get the chance to play it or any subscription-based games but I'm talking about anything that involves microtransactions/loot boxes of any kind. Doesn't matter if it is cosmetic but basically any in-game purchases to date have been bad designs overall as mentioned in previous posts. 2) Because in my opinion they seem to work. If you love the game and willing to spend time on it then it is fine, especially if there is absolutely no microtransactions/loot boxes of any kind. 3) In my opinion they should. Just like casinos have regulations against gambling. Monetizations to me is very much every microtransaction/loot boxes and they have gone out of control and in my eyes when it comes to gaming. It's been proven by several studies that loot boxes in particular are gambling no matter how you slice it, while microtransactions overall are bad design and can easily hook people with addictions. In my opinion those shouldn't belong in a video game. By the way, to clarify that I haven't said as of yet: I don't like these practices at all but I don't mind seeing these not belong in a video game for minors and instead be restricted to Adults Only (for ESRB ratings). Minors are not mature enough for any loot boxes and any microtransactions in general. These are just my opinions and I don't expect everyone to agree with them.

Ah. You are making this sound more complicated that it already is, because that's what it sounds like. Unfortunately even just cosmetic options only that you can pay I believe is bad in my book because of its addictive nature that I see in bad light even if you don't think it is predatory. Even if I will not fall into these bad designs, somebody else will. It is still bad video game design to me in my eyes. So almost every implementation of microtransactions and loot boxes to me are seen in a negative light no matter how it is done. Does this make it anymore clear to you? Feel free to disagree because that's because where I will stand to pretty much any of them in general. A fair statement but I still disagree with that design.

Two major monetization schemes we are the only ones focusing on here. Microtransactions and loot boxes, some people try to disguise it in a different form but the main function is the same with the similarities in place. That's exactly what we are focusing on and I am treating both of them negatively and equally. Both of which are unethical.

That is where I disagree, especially where I am agreeing with the same points as said in the video. It is simply bad video game design. Some of these video games now are purposely designed to be grindier and less convenient to make their 'time saving' in-game purchases more appealing. There is no option in avoiding these bad video game designs when we buy them or not (this has happenned in F2P for a long time but now has crept their way into games where you have to buy them before playing now). These games with this bad design some players don't have the option of going to without their shopping/gambling addiction making them go out of control with their destructive behavior. People already have been doing that but so far has met resistance. The latest effort by a U.S Senator with his anti-loot box bill and microtransactions is finally showing some hope for those that don't like this practice. https://kotaku.com/u-s-senator-says-his-anti-loot-box-bill-has-the-video-1834905639 Belgium is the only other country that comes into mind that is banning loot boxes and has made some video game developers turn off loot boxes in their games etc. I already said multiple times that you can make a profit on video games without the bad practices. Just look at Cuphead and other indie online games for example. Even one of the worst games ever made Superman 64 sold relatively well despite the huge negative press at the time. You can make a profit without microtransactions/loot boxes, it's that simple and the big corporations know it too. In my eyes, they don't belong in video games.

Implementing them in different ways doesn't change what they fundamentally are especially when the similarities are still there. I don't care if it 1 cent, you still pay for it regardless. And it wouldn't be paranoia especially if more legislatures will indeed move against these practices.

Wasn't it obvious by the thread title already in the very first place? Avoid any predatory monetization whether at very first release or in future updates of a game. I'm surprised it didn't click in any of you. Surprised it triggered some of you by bringing up the mechanics this game has some in a predatory way. Sure, some of the mechanics in this game are similar to the bad type and still they shouldn't be there in my opinion. Matt has already said they will find different ways to monetize but let's hope it will not be the predatory type, there are many different types as explained in that 30 minute video and it isn't necessarily tied down to just only microtransactions or just only loot boxes. I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as seperate and different implementations of these mechanics this game has when they have been similar one way or another in other games as well. This has happenned in Fortnite, Call of Duty, Overwatch etc. just to name a few. Cosmetics and weapons that you don't need to buy for example? There are those with addictions that will spend lots of money just to 'complete' their collection. Microtransactions in general that will help the gameplay one way or the other have been psychologically manipulative and not just tied down loot boxes. The problem is a lot bigger than you think and it seems to be a common formula in almost every F2P game sadly. There are those people that will continue to deny that this games monetization (even if it looks minor) or other games out there isn't that bad and come up with excuses that I have already mentioned. I'll take subscription over most microtransactions any day whenever possible but they aren't going away so quickly as I imagine. Not unless the upcoming legislation laws around the world will come down hard on these greedy developers. If you watched that video some people will continue to deny that this game doesn't have these particular type of mechanics when it is still similar to the examples explained in that video or even found on other F2P games (and now even full priced games). Even if the microtransactions/loot boxes are in the game in a very small way it doesn't change a thing of their predatory nature.

Anything that requires to pay to get currency for those predatory monetization still doesn't change things at all. I don't pity for the developers that have to do this type of monetization to stay afloat either after seeing it game after game. And the microtransactions don't fare any better either if you watched that video, the CEO Torulf Jernstorm explains how they get players hooked and pay for stuff to 'help' the developers well-being. I do miss the old days of playing the game and getting rewarded for doing certain tasks etc. Now for some games it is all about how big your wallet is, except it is not subscription based but rather on monetization.

If you used in-game currency that you earn while playing the game to get these boxes that could be a different story. But the fact that the option to pay real money for the random rewards to come up doesn't change anything, even if you can get the stuff in-game.

You still paid money on a loot box when you don't know exactly what you will get. Like going to a slot machine, you pay money and you don't know what you will get in return. Put more money in hopes you get what you want does come.. eventually or maybe never. It still has that gambling addictive nature no matter how cheap/expensive the loot box is.

Any predatory monetization that is in any game in general and doesn't just have to be in APB alone. Simple as that. Nope. EA isn't the only one at fault if you actually watched the video. It goes beyond them at this point. ESRB rating on the store page on the right still says M for Mature. Other countries have their own ratings but I'm going by ESRB here. They have AO (Adults Only) rating but it isn't applied to this game. Yep. Blame the addicts for not knowing any better, that excuse has been covered in the video as well. Not surprising to see someone use that one here now. The fact that the option is there is still psychologically manipulative and that can't be denied. Subscription for an MMO I would rather do than monetization, if the game is worth my time. Yep. I didn't know any better when these practices came out many years ago, but at least I opened my eyes and see how harmful it can be for those who don't know better. Because of that I strongly oppose it so that others don't get duped. Saying that loot boxes/microtransactions are optional and you don't have to pay them is again a poor excuse because of its addictive nature. You and I may not fall for the trap, but others are not so fortunate and I don't mind seeing them not belong in video games. You do realize that EA aren't the only ones at fault. Though I can certainly see in hindsight that the big companies made these bad practices look good when they aren't. Don't take my word for it, there are many others that are opposing it. The voices on this issue has been slowly growing over the years. I doubt they will survive against the new pieces of legislation that some countries are thinking about already. And I don't think those people in the legislature will listen to your arguments of monetization/loot boxes. If the anti-loot box/monetization bills for example don't go through, the fight against them will not stop I imagine. Plus those Joker Mystery Boxes look like a different variation of a loot box even if you don't need it to progress in the game. You pay for money to get an unknown reward every time you decide to pay for them. That's gambling. It is still predatory. Saying Joker Mystery Boxes aren't loot boxes is like Electronic Arts saying they are not loot boxes but they are instead 'surprise mechanics'. That doesn't change a thing on what they are.

It is possible to not let these developers try to find new predatory ways to get money from us unethically. I still remember nobody said anything much about these new scummy practices until many years later. Once enough people start screaming about these practices, it might be just enough to deter others from doing the same thing. You could say it is a 'protest', but there's no doubt these particular monetizations are unethical and I am not surprised legislation had to get involved to make the practices illegal and to avoid any loopholes the corporations will try to go to next.

Yep. I've seen one new game before release with the developers promising they won't add predatory monetization in future updates. That was a lie. Let's not see that happen to this game at any point in the future.

I already said before that APB should avoid predatory monetization. Yeah, back when people didn't know better or make a strong protest. I still remember Mass Effect 3's multiplayer having loot boxes too but didn't say too much about it at the time, neither did many others. Only realizing how addictive these microtransactions/loot boxes are addictive after many years later with several studies done only then these are seen in a negative light.

And it is just as easy not to have those mechanics that cause behavioral issues in the first place in a video game, especially in the current state where people get hooked on the bad monetization. No problem criticizing a bad game with no monetization.

Last I checked the game was not rated Adults Only (AO), especially as shown on the Steam page. And I'd like for you to use that same logic to those players who easily get addicted to the predatory monetization. Addiction is not a switch you can easily turn on/off, it is not that simple.

Yeah, but definitely not with the predatory/addictive monetization. If companies can't make a good game without the monetization like the old days, maybe they shouldn't be in business. Да, но определенно не с хищной / захватывающей монетизацией. Если компании не могут сделать хорошую игру без монетизации, как в старые времена, возможно, им не следует заниматься бизнесом.

Google Translate says of your post: "contingent of game + 18. at the age of 18 your brains are starting to work, these are your problems and responsibilities. The company has one problem - the legislation of some countries. Everything suits me." That's because the game industry didn't fight back against loot boxes/microtransactions for years, knowing they are predatory. Only recently people have been fighting back against it, nothing wrong with gambling/microtransactions provided the game is rated Adults Only. And you know that having a game rated Adults Only isn't good for business. Google Translate of my post to your language: "Это потому, что игровая индустрия годами не боролась с лут-боксами / микротранзакциями, зная, что они хищные. Только недавно люди боролись против этого, ничего плохого в азартных играх / микротранзакциях, если игра оценена только для взрослых. И вы знаете, что игра с рейтингом «Только для взрослых» не подходит для бизнеса."

If you watched the video that whole thing of "you don't have to buy loot boxes/microtransactions" is a poor excuse. It's kind of like saying to a little kid when going to a casino saying you don't need to gamble etc. Most monetization nowadays is predatory as explained in that video, and there are those that will end up spending money that go out of control etc.

I already answered the question on the original post. Little Orbit should avoid predatory monetization, if that wasn't obvious enough.

Okay. This is not exactly a new subject as Matt has seen the current anti-loot box bill that is still in the works. But there are other things that cannot be ignored and no excuses should be made when it comes to monetization that is addictive. Not sure if any of you have seen this video, but I recommend you watch this video in its entirety before commenting as it is important. Took me a few times to watch this whole thing and I wholeheartedly agree that gaming has kind of taken a dark turn compared to simple old days of NES, SNES, Genesis etc. You get the idea. I bet some people will try to defend or ignore some of the facts stated in this video, but I think it is important that some changes have to be made.

Basically, if APB doesn't remove its loot boxes or pay-to-win stuff, then this game will become an Adults Only (18+) game and no longer rated either rated M for Mature of T for Teens etc. If this game was sold only on retail that would be very bad etc. But it will prevent children or teens from easily playing APB.