Dreadarm
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Posts posted by Dreadarm
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1 minute ago, Nymphi--DoubleDee said:Yet you can't comprehend a simple thing like Semi and Auto. And see how using something EXTERNAL to change SEMI to AUTO is against the spirit of the game.
And you don't seem to comprehend that I never actually stated any of this... Yet you continue to attack me directly.
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23 hours ago, Nymphi--DoubleDee said: Really?
So I can't go into the key bindings, and set Fire to the scroll wheel? Interesting. I am sure that had to be programmed in.
And just because it is on the mouse, doesn't mean it'll work. I have a R.A.T. Cyborg 7, and the game doesn't recognize my "Sniper Fire" button, nor does Windows recognize the side scroll wheel.
Also, as far as scroll wheel being a "macro", it wouldn't be, because it is still getting input from the player.
See, that's where the line in the sand is.
Maybe if you comprehended what I have written, you would have noticed that.
Comprehension and agreement are two entirely separate things. I don't have to agree with you in order to comprehend what you wrote. But you know continuing to attack me directly doesn't really further anything you are saying so it really doesn't matter.
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On 6/16/2018 at 12:12 AM, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:Scroll wheel is programed into the game. Macro is not.
I also see you have a problem understanding the difference between internal and external.
And if it shouldn't be an issue, then it shouldn't be an issue on them not being allowed.
So, you've been fighting for nothing.
No, scroll wheel is not programmed into the game. It is button on a mouse just like all the others. It can be assigned in the game to the fire action. But it is not "programmed" into the game. And using a scroll wheel in this fashion equates to a mechanical macro. So are you now saying macro's are ok? hmmm...?
And I have not been fighting for nothing. I got quite what I wanted from this conversation. -
14 minutes ago, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:Sure I have. You have just chosen to ignore them, because it's convenient for you.
1) Tiggs/G1 has stated they are cheating.
2) It changes the SEMI AUTO rifle to FULL AUTO. I've never argued if it is more beneficial or not. What I have said, is that it changes the core mechanic of a semi auto rifle. You've argued that it doesn't. When, it does. Thus, changing game mechanics. You're stance of "well, it just makes it simple and efficient" does not make it okay to use. Because, then you go down that slippery slope.
I know it's hard for you to grasp someone else's opinion.
See now we get down to the real brass knuckles. I never said using a macro was ok or allowed. I said it doesn't matter, and that it really should not be an issue. As far as Tiggs and the TOS I already acknowledged that I was unaware of the change to the TOS and the original G1's stance on macro's. At one time they were expressly allowed. And, still no. A macro does not effect the game in a way that changes any mechanic programmed into the game. It simply alters the type of input as does a scroll wheel, or any other keybinding plain and simple.
Have any more words to throw at me?
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On 6/14/2018 at 7:29 AM, LaQuandra said:Yeah. The reign of Tiggs really helped the game by banning the population because they sold shirts, criticized Tiggs, said they were 12, and played summit on stream.
Coincidence the population has almost tripled on NA? Coincidence people are coming back to play with their friends who were banned?
The management of the old team killed the game while you celebrated those bans. Wake up and face the fact how duped you were.
HAHA I was one of the people who got banned for selling shirts... *sigh*. Good times, good times.
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1 hour ago, SelttikS said:He did in fact NOT give me his stuff.
While naming those banned might be toxic, i dunno really but whatev, I would like to know like a weekly ban rate or something. Sorta like knowing the oven is actually on with the little light ya know.
I agree, Don't really need to know Who really, just want to know how many. Statistics would be enough to make me feel like something was actively being done.
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21 minutes ago, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:Sure!
This is what I responded to. You have challenged, and failed. Simple.
This is where we get your logic. If using a macro to make firing a semi-auto into a full auto rifle is "simple and more efficient", then, to reduce strain on the wrists and eyes, smooth aim, and auto aim should be a thing, because it's "simple, and more efficient".
Your definition of a macro.
But since it sends mouse clicks (that you didn't do), then it should be okay to send mouse movements that you don't do. It's not, under your definition, of a hack, because all it is doing is moving the mouse, to make it more "simple, and efficient". It is not manipulating game play, because the user would have moved the mouse anyways.
Same concept.
Who exactly is this "we" you keep mentioning, you act like tons of people are against me. Lol... It's funny how you derive those meanings from my statements and quote me, but still failed to show where I made any statements that you quoted.
The first one:
I said I challenged every argument you made, I never said I won or lost anything.
The second:
You are taking my response completely out of context and apply a "slippery slope" fallacy to attempt to gain ground on the subject. My response here was only to your claim that a macro is changing the game design. I guess you couldn't possibly have derived any logic from any of my other posts where I actually explained my position clearly since they don't further your attack.
The Third:
This is not just " My definition". This is the proper definition as it applies to gaming and this conversation. Unlike your definition that you derived and altered straight from a google search.The Forth:
Once again you take the point of my statement here and attempt to twist it. The point here is that there is no benefit from using a macro. You then jump on a slippery slope and claim that well fine, if macro's are ok then I guess all cheats and hacks are ok to!
I am glad to see you took the time to spell this out for me. I can see now that no matter what I say, to you it translates to "cheating is ok" but you cant actually base any form of argument around my principle claim that macros net no benefit over other forms of rapid fire.
You have countless replies, and I have shown evidence and explained myself. You have just sent word after word and given no actual argument as to WHY you think macros are cheating.
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13 hours ago, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:What have you challenged, and defeated?
Carbine is a semiauto rifle. Using ANYTHING outside of the game coding to change such behavior changing the mechanic of the weapon.
You just can't concede that you are wrong on this fact.
I have put NO words into your mouth. I've used YOUR logic of "Well, the macro just automates it, removing redundancy."
I haven't altered ANYTHING. I didn't go and change the Wikipedia page. I didn't go an change Tiggs post, nor have I gone back and changed my posts either.
Now, your tactic is to try and shut me down, yet there are numerous others that have additionally pointed out your flawed thinking.
So, walk away, and think in your own little world that you are remotely in the right.
There you go putting words in peoples mouths, Id like you to link where I stated any of this since you are supposedly quoting me.
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6 hours ago, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:I put no words into your mouth.
I used your logic.
A macro sends mouse clicks, so that's fine.
Smooth aim sends mouse movements, so that's fine?
Macro automates gun fire on semi autos.
Smooth aim puts the crosshair over the target.
Both what the player would do, with your logic. Just automated. So that's fine?
Ok I've accepted that you are just not worth my time anymore. I have successfully challenged every single argument you have made, You keep changing your basis for your argument, Then you repeat yourself a lot, you put words in peoples mouths, and you cite information that you ALTER thinking no one will read it so that it appears to fit your agenda. You really are just not worth it anymore. You just keep attacking me personally, and using fallacies to argue your point. You just don't have any ground to stand on. So this will be my last response to you. I will just click the ignore button the next time you reply to one of my threads.
If anyone else has something worth contributing to this debate, I am all ears. Lets do it!9 hours ago, Isais said:Greetings Dreadarm.
If i set up a robot to do my job and sit eating tea and biscuits, is it fair i get paid? Employ me?
You have either not read anything that is being discussed, or you are simply attempting to be smart. No one in this entire thread has condoned full Automation.
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3 hours ago, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:But it's just automating what the player would do, by moving the crosshair over the target.
Same principle as firing a semi auto gun full auto, according to you.
Why are you putting words in my mouth? Can you not make your argument without resorting to silly tactics like changing the definition of things you cite, changing your argument, and changing the context of statements?
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1 hour ago, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:..............
Maybe... Maybe you are just too dense to pick up what I am putting down.
But since the server, and clients would see smooth aim as mouse movements, you are okay with that? Same principle.
Its not the same principle, you are now moving to oranges vs apples again. Smooth aim is a feature in an aim-bot which falls under hack.
And maybe I am just not picking up what you are putting down because I am not buying into your argument.
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7 minutes ago, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:Who was talking about that? I wasn't.
This is about the way a gun is designed. It is design to fire 1 round (Or 3 like the Obir) per mouse click, to firing multiple rounds per mouse click and hold, like a STAR.
Go hold down your mouse button while you have the Carbine equipped. It will fire ONE round. Changing that is changing a GAME MECHANIC.
See, and that is where macro comes in, you are still sending mouse clicks or what ever key push you are using to fire. Its just an expansion of the instruction. There is no net benefit between a macro expansion and individual mouse clicks.
here is a good side by side comparison.
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4 minutes ago, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:And?
What does that have to do with changing a semi auto into full auto?
The game mechanic of the Carbine is semi auto. Not full auto.
And? you cant bypass the global cap on the fire rate of any gun in the game.
I guess my point here is, macro, scroll wheel, or any other form of input, you can't fire a gun faster than its cap rate. So there is no net benefit of using a macro, and therefore it is not harmful.
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3 minutes ago, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:Changing from
click fire click fire click fire click fire
to
Click fire fire fire fire
Is changing the mechanic of a semi auto rifle.
The client, server and OP client still see click fire click fire click fire. not click fire fire fire.
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Just now, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:The point of semi auto is human error in firing. Too fast, or too slow could make a difference.
Automating the firing removes that.
And you are changing a game mechanic.
It's like the cross hair shaders. If the designers wanted them there, they would have put them there.
Advantage or not, it's changing game mechanics.
I sincerely disagree with you. You can not alter the game mechanics with a macro. You can abuse it, you can make it more efficient, but at the end of the day there are at-least 3 problems with macro's and simi auto weapons that negate the effects to an almost unusable point. Radical bloom, Bullet randomization, and vertical/horizontal recoil.
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1 minute ago, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:So then, maybe you don't understand the difference between semiauto and full auto, and why those are game mechanics.
And thus, a macro is changing game mechanics, because, even if it is firing at human rate, it is changing a semi auto to a full auto.
If the designers wanted the Carbine full auto, they would have made it have that mechanic.
But the entire premise of my argument is that a macro nets you no significant gain over the other methods. Therefore it is harmless.
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3 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:Holy moly... this is still going?
Yes... I am a dog with a bone and I'm not ready to bury it yet.
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Ok so for the sake of argument:
Macro:
Is typically recognized as an expansion of instructions or repetitive actions that are pre-recorded and do not exceed a designed game mechanic. aka "full auto" or "rapid fire" which can already be achieved in the game by basic human input or a scroll wheel.
Script:
Typically runs on a script engine and requires basic programming knowledge. It allows many advanced functions such as pixel searching and full automation of game play. AKA trigger bots, farming bots etc. It interacts with the game for you autonomously.
Hack:
Utilized advanced programming knowledge, memory access, and prediction algorithms to significantly alter and manipulate the game play.
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26 minutes ago, SLICKIEM said:You don't seem to understand that they can be made to do the same thing. I can configure a mouse macro that perfectly auto-fires, or I can make a mouse macro that only shoots when a certain pixel is red. Or you can use AHK scripts, or AutoIt scripts, to do the same exact thing. The real apples and oranges here is hacks and BOTH macros/scripts.
You are arguing features that are only available in a script via a script engine and programming. These features are not available with a macro.
3 minutes ago, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:No, we are arguing oranges, while you are holding tight to vapor.
You have still yet to explain your stance, besides splitting hairs on terminology.
Third time asking, what is your definition of a macro? Because I linked you the common computing definition of a macro.
You linked a definition for Macro and then ignored its actual definition and stated something different that your own definition stated.
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Just now, SLICKIEM said:You want proof? Fine. Here's the proof.
The lowest reachable reaction time is around 190ms for visual elements, e.g. a red crosshair, maybe? *cough cough*
Average people are more around the 240 - 300 range, if we are considering the "average gamer" being under 40.
You can create a script which will INSTANTLY fire when that crosshair turns red, making you a PHYSICAL IMPOSSIBILITY without that script. Add to that, that the hitboxes are big rectangles. You WILL hit them if that crosshair is red and you are using an accurate weapon, or corner-peeking with a shotgun.
Furthermore, you can pile on top of a color triggerbot script, an auto-fire script. Very VERY few people are able to fire an Obeya CR762 at it's MAXIMUM fire rate 100% consistently. It's very, VERY hard to get an entire magazine perfectly fired at max RPM, and that's without enemies to worry about. With an autofire script (that detects if crosshair is red) doing it for you, it will have perfect fire-consistency outside of lagspikes and instantaneous reaction time un-achievable by humans. Hell, you could even make the script detect if the bloom is too high to start shooting, all while not interfacing with the game whatsoever.
There's tons of applications for macros/scripts that make you more powerful than any human player. I'd really be scared if a seasoned pro decided to start using macros for that shit.
And here is the problem with your argument, you are arguing oranges while I am arguing apples. Macro's are not Scripts. Please argue apples with apples.
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18 minutes ago, SLICKIEM said:You highlighted that definition earlier as an example I didn't use, so I used it. Get over it? This topic needs to be locked.
Why, because someone doesn't bow down and agree with you?
Not one person arguing that "Macros are bad mmkay..." have shown ANY metrics, proof, or context where they can show harm in the game. the only person who has even attempted to do that is DoubleDee and she is stuck on "it changes the game mechanics" when it doesn't. All weapons in the game have a GCD or hard cap on fire rates which can be achieved by macro, manual clicking, and scroll wheel. Nothing is being harmed here. Oh wait my bad, one dude did try to argue that 117 ms would make or break him in ttk.
As a matter of fact, this entire argument started with Macro's being lumped in with scripts and hacks. And I started off by making a distinction between them. And I still champion the point that Macro's are not the same as scripts, or hacks. And that Macro's in and of themselves are harmless to gameplay for multiple reasons already stated. -
4 minutes ago, SLICKIEM said:
Your posts can definitely be omitted with out loss of meaning or function.
So you cant back your statement or your own examples so you attack someone directly. Nice way to act like an adult.
3 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:mechanics can be changed without directly interfering with the game's code
a macro that fires, switches weapons, and fires again is changing a series of actions from 3 manual initiations to 1
No, they can not be changed. They can be
circumventedexploited or abused, but they can not be changed in this way. -
3 minutes ago, Nymphi-DoubleDee said:Your point is macros should be allowed.
Even if they change the mechanics of certain weapons and remove the need to click for every fire.
Once again, you are stuck on "changing mechanics" but once again. Macro's do not change any mechanics in the game.
See this is redundant. She states the same thing over and over and over.
My point was a little deeper than Macro's should be allowed.
My point states that Macro's are harmless. AND that there is a clear and concise difference between an Macro, a Script, and a hack.
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8 minutes ago, SLICKIEM said:
It's the proper phrase.
No, its not, because in order for it to be no longer needed or useful, it has to be basically a reiteration of the same thing. Hence Redundancy. However in the context of your statement Mute or Null would fit better since you are saying my argument is completely invalid based on your opinion. You cant make a claim that its not needed simply because you disagree. In the case that there was a decision already passed down, or I was arguing something to be made "legal" when it was already legal, that is redundant.
see, you conveniently cut out the context to attempt to make it fit your agenda, but in your own source it explains what I just said.
cant play apb :(
in General Discussion Archive
Posted
I play this game daily and do not experience any random disconnects...