Someone
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What is with the absolute refusal to make the other green mods as useful as Clotting Agent 3?
What else besides 98% of players only ever using CA3 will it take for the devs to realize that they need to rebalance the green mods?-
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I can't be the only one who never really got a chance to play enough of the holiday event to unlock everything.
Also what is it going to take for you guys to make the Dolton Montane RWD? -
It wasn't perfectly balanced but that doesn't mean it wasn't an interesting and unique aspect of the game.
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On 10/28/2024 at 11:22 AM, TheSxW said:if you drive fast you should be able to spawn in a car... thats not possible spawn is max 500m from death (around that value) then ppl will abuse this to the core
WTF are you talking about?
People can still spawn in fast cars actively being driven around, They just can't do it while it's being chased by an enemy which is what this suggestion is about.
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On 10/14/2024 at 7:29 AM, MageLO said:Dolton Montane
- Health increased from 1250 to 1350.
A health buff but not a change from FWD to RWD? Whyyyy?
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Why even have an economy mechanic built into using weapons and vehicles if it's not going to be used as another means of balance?
The vehicle spawn and ammunition cost factor for nearly everything is off by a whole digit I.E. Vegas and OSMAW rockets should cost $1000 instead of $100.
Non-mission activities such as mugging, ram-raiding, chop-shopping, witnessing, and impounding stolen goods/vehicles might need the profit per-item/action increased as well but I don't have the numbers for how much. -
On 10/23/2024 at 8:47 AM, TheSxW said:imagine what will happen what pro players will do... then will morelikely even more spawn camp you with close range weapons now.xD imagine that now you can be spawned in car that is way too close to enemies literally you can spawn ontop op enemy somehow not sure how its done yet... and insta die from car explosion cause pro player counted when the spawn wave will be and throw concusion grenade under car spawn so you gonna die on spawn (happen to me way too many times...)
Edit: you can use this car spawn as small "radar hack" of sorts to know where enemies are if you place them properly around the point and you have a team of 4 premades you can also directly talk to your teammates using voice over discord or stream your game and tell them directly where enemy is... imagine that...Imagine trying to make sense of a borderline incomprehensible argument.
What part of "Invalid if enemy within 55m when under 55% of top speed" do you not understand?
On 10/14/2024 at 5:42 AM, Yapopal said:Change your habits.
What?
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When Mobile Spawn Points were first added, The game seen a huge increase in the number of gunfights between vehicle passengers and it was a really refreshing change to combat.
Now due to the spawn becoming invalid if an enemy is within 55m of the vehicle, The game is back to the boring state of passengers rarely bothering to shoot at each other.
It even reduced the overall amount of organic teamwork as dead teammates now are once again split up from living teammates when driving to an objectives with an enemy in proximity.
In short, The "Invalid if enemy within 55m" rule should be changed to "Invalid if enemy within 55m when under 55% of top speed". -
I recall using macros to make semi-auto weapons shoot at their maximum rate of fire being made a ban-able offense many years ago.
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Glad I am not the only one who recognizes that the vegas is unbalanced.
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It's good that they added the 4 slot version of the montane to contact progression but they really should have changed it from FWD to RWD while they were at it.
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On 9/10/2022 at 3:34 AM, mtz said:Ultimately the issue I see here is a lack of available options, and our collective inability as a community to come up with a solution or brainstorm new mods or anything of that sort.
Nah it's the lack of willpower and manpower on part of the developers and its been that way for years.
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Quake Live tried this and it was deemed a failure as advertisers pay for view time and players only spend micro seconds looking at in game environmental ads.
Vehicle kits draw players in as they are applicable to player tradeable vehicles, If clothing kits could be trade they would have further appeal.
Vehicle kits would be even more profitable if vehicles in general were so balanced with each other.
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If your semi-automatic weapon can shoot as fast as an SMG, Why is it even semi-automatic in the first place?
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Is it just me or is everyone miscalculating DPS? The usual formula of “attacks per second * damage per attack” does not conform to reality.
It took making my own game and expericmenting with TTK as an idea to eventually figure this out but it's quite simple.
Take two weapons: Machinegun vs Shotgun
Machinegun rate of fire is 100ms, Damage is 10.
Shotgun rate of fire is 1000ms, Damage is 100.
Standard DPS of MG is calculated to be 100.
Standard DPS of SG is calculated to be 100.
I argue that that in reality the time between attacks starts exactly at the same time as damage is dealt.
Meaning any weapon with a fire rate that is a factor of 1 second will have fired when the timer starts and when it ends.
Therefore in the span of 1 second the Shotgun will have fired twice and the Machinegun will have fire eleven times, Making the true Damage-Per-Second of the Shotgun 200 and Machinegun 110.
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It's very often that when a player types abandonmission, The active mission will find and match opposition due to the sudden change in team composition.
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Why can't weapons which are disliked for being too good become balanced by excessive ammo cost and weapons which are underwhelming become valuable for their profitability?
Essentially what would happen is that good players gain a reason to handicap themselves against bad players who retain a means to level the playing field.
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I agree that all weapons should just shoot at their maximum rate if the fire button is held down, Nothing would change except the steep learning curve being smoothed out.
Any weapon which is only balanced due to the required skill to perfectly time manually firing each shot is too easily exploited by automation.
Likewise any semi-auto which isn't good despite firing automatically is severely underpowered.
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Those vehicles could be viable for player acquisition if spawn cost was actually used as the balancing mechanic it's clearly intended to be.
If a slot-less and rent-only Benkz Mhuller M1, Balkan Kolva, and Balkan Ambulance respectively cost $500; $10,000; and $3,000 dollars to spawn then most players would look elsewhere even if all other vehicles spawns was multiplied by 10.
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8 hours ago, glaciers said:of course it does, especially in the context of pvp games, the entire point of balancing is to attempt to eliminate as many factors as possible to pare competition down to personal skill
Randomness is the only thing that eliminates personal skill from the equation, Fighting when the odds are stacked against you doesn't eliminate personal skill from the equation.
8 hours ago, glaciers said:if equity of equipment doesn't matter when it comes to apb then why are you even suggesting mechanics intended to balance different levels of equipment?
The mechanic already exists! Are you going to tell me that money serves no point in the game and there is currently no relationship between the cost of equipment and its relative performance?
8 hours ago, glaciers said:xp is irrelevant, neither your suggestion nor my issues with it are about xp
How have your issues not included XP? By your definition APB as a competitive PVP game should pare everything down to personal skill which would include access to every piece of equipment.
8 hours ago, glaciers said:one of the problems i have is the reverse situation, when a player with expensive weapons "overcomes" an enemy with cheap weapons because he spent more money on armas, or more time ramraiding, or more time in social
What weapons currently in the game would give a player enough of an advantage to consistently win against an equally skilled but differently equipped opponent?
Are those weapons ARMAS exclusive? How does making these superior weapons more expensive to use make them better?
Why should gameplay around Crime and Enforcement be so pointless?
It's been a core part of the game since the games inception, before it was a F2P game, and before the current dev team touched it.
Why shouldn't it possibly matter how much time a player spends doing non-mission activities?
Social doesn't print money, You had to do something well enough to make a player part with their cash.
That would become even harder if money was more important to gameplay.
8 hours ago, glaciers said:why does an idea need to make sense? how is this even a question?
Unless you were just saying that my words were illegible, The criticism that an idea "makes no sense" is ambiguous and nondescript without anything to specify it.
8 hours ago, glaciers said:the problem with the weapons i listed is you've listed each pair as being in the same tier, yet they have significantly different places in the meta
You didn't/haven't explained how this is a problem.
8 hours ago, glaciers said:if the intent is to influence player choice then its a failure, if a player is going to pay t2 ammo cost there's no reason for them to choose the issra over the ntec
What reason do players currently have to use ISSRA over the NTEC?
How will those reasons go away when the ammo they use suddenly costs 10x more?
8 hours ago, glaciers said:its a leftover feature because its part of a different design ethos that apb has been moving away from, albeit slowly
No it hasn't, The game couldn't have moved away from that "ethos" when it hasn't been able to move at all.
8 hours ago, glaciers said:just because the people who ruined apb intended for lower tier vehicles to underperform doesn't mean they need to continue underperforming
The cheap vehicles wouldn't be considered underperforming if the more expensive cars didn't always give you their moneys worth of performance.
Buffing the the "bad" vehicles into usefulness is impossible without harming gameplay dynamics and making everything feel and play the same.
8 hours ago, glaciers said:its extra work to reach the same place then, even ignoring the other problems cost balancing may introduce
This is just mathematically wrong.
Adding an ammo type for every weapon and balancing each with unique ammo costs is less work than balancing every weapon's equip time, magazine size, ammo count, reload speed, range, damage, rate of fire, recoil, damage fall off, running hipfire spread, walking hipfire spread, standing hipfire spread, crouched hipfire spread, crouched moving hipefire spread, standing aimed spread, aimed walking spread, aimed crouched spread, moving aimed crouch spread, and probably more I am forgetting.
8 hours ago, glaciers said:this varies wildly depending on consumable use and player progression level, but its entirely possible to only use free consumables without worrying about inventory management
Which method is easier and which is more sustainable? Buying consumables outright so you can use them at will or altering how you play the game so you never run out in the first place?
Would you say one player is being rewarded and the other punished or are these just equally valid ways to play the game "competitively"?
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10 hours ago, glaciers said:it should be convenient because the entire point of the game is competition? if players are actively discouraged from playing their best, i'm not really sure what the point of pvp is
Competition does not equal equity of equipment and certainly not in a game like APB.
10 hours ago, glaciers said:contact xp is irrelevant, the issue is cost/money and its effect on mission performance
XP is not irrelevant in a game with progression, Just because its been so long since you had anything to unlock doesn't mean its not a core principle the game is built around.
10 hours ago, glaciers said:the race metaphor doesn't really make sense because everyone is not starting from the same place, nor is every mission a self contained competition
No metaphor, I am pointing out that the correlation of increasing difficulty between "duration of effort" & "intensity of effort" is a natural consequence and not an imposed punishment.
A player skilled enough with cheap weapons to overcome an enemy's skill with expensive weapons is rewarded with significant gains in profit, How is that not skill rewarding mechanism?
10 hours ago, glaciers said:new players complain about explosives because they don't have access to explosives, preventing them from learning the strengths and weaknesses
So you think new players should get access to OSMAW and OPGL?
According to what you say there is no point to PVP when the game actively prevents new players from playing exactly like old players.
10 hours ago, glaciers said:the tiering just doesnt make sense imo, even narrowing it down to weapon categories - nfas and jg are both the same tier? shaw and euryale? ntec and issra? opgl and eol? how are legendaries in general supposed to be tiered?
Why does an idea need to "make sense" and what exactly is the problem with the weapons you stated?
That ammo cost from weapons of the same type but of different characteristics would influence player choice?
10 hours ago, glaciers said:if you dont understand the differences between the pioneer and the mikro or the resulting effects on the meta im not sure you should be discussing balance
My bad I had thought of the Packer Vaquero and not the Nulander Pioneer, I never thought to compare these two completely different class of vehicle.
Within 300 meters the Mikro and Vaquero will win any race against any other vehicle, Their acceleration allows drivers entering the vehicle to escape grenades before they explode.
10 hours ago, glaciers said:i do think its an issue that a large majority of apb vehicles are essentially ignored, but i disagree that buffing the unused vehicles is "pointless" and that making 3 pioneer spawns negate mission profit is the right way to balance things
Buffing all of the underused vehicles so that players choose to use them is pointless in my book because that would make them all equivalent and thus boing to drive.
The only way to balance all of these vehicles without removing all the characteristics that make them unique is to make the price-to-spawn an important characteristic.
10 hours ago, glaciers said:most low tier vehicles do not perform well nor were they intended too, its a leftover from rtws attempt to force rpg progression into a pvp shooter
Its not a leftover feature of the game, Its an underdeveloped core principle of the game.
If they are meant to underperform then why do you want them buffed into equity so that players use them?
10 hours ago, glaciers said:its just more work, even if ammo cost is increased as a balance mechanic weapon stats still have to balanced as well, cost cannot be the sole balancing factor
Most weapons are already mostly balanced through their other characteristics, Making ammo cost an important factor just balances the difference that remains.
10 hours ago, glaciers said:consumables have been free as mission rewards since they were implemented iirc, adding an additional way to get more didn't really do much either way for consumable issues
Players don't earn enough free consumables to make it a self-sustaining process, They have to buy the consumables to make them a staple in their gameplay.
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10 hours ago, glaciers said:a lot of this boils down to making players choose between mission performance and saving money, but choosing mission performance can (and likely will) lead to it being impossible to continue to choose mission performance without being funneled into other activities - essentially punishing players for consistently performing at their best
Why should it be convenient for players to utilize the best weapons and vehicles all the time? Why should we assume what it does for the game is good?
Players still earn contact reputation even if they lose, They would only lose money if they chose to risk outspending their earnings for winning/losing the mission.
Playing for performance is to sprinting as playing for sustainability is to jogging, Its hard to win a marathon by sprinting just as its hard to win a dash by jogging.
Losing a race against someone who has the skills to sprint through an entire marathon when you can only jog is only punishing when you chose to wager money on it.
10 hours ago, glaciers said:tiering categories like this doesn't make much sense for performance-based cost (opgl/osmaw being t4 despite not even being meta?), something already seen with vehicles, with the pioneer and mikro in the same tier despite significant performance differences
OSMAW and OPGL are very good at what they do and which no other weapon can even emulate, New players have long complained about having to fight players with these weapons.
A weapon's type doesn't just determine how viable it is in any given situation but also how it changes the performance of your teammates and the map's meta.
Rifles are tier 2 because they can compete with weapons that can potentially outclass them while outclassing weapons not as flexible as them.
Submachine guns are mostly tier 1 because they can't compete outside of short range, The Submachine guns that can use tier 2 Magnum ammo instead.
As CQC weapons Shotguns have many inherently large advantages over Submachine guns, Which is why Shotgun ammo is tier 3 and most SMGs use tier 1 ammo.
High-velocity Rifles are tier 3 ammo as they outclass anything they can outrange and their shorter range pitfalls are more easily compensated for from a players sidearm.
Machine guns such as the SHAW and its like use ether tier 2 Rifle ammo while the ALIG and its clones use tier 3 High-velocity Rifle ammo.
I don't understand the supposed performance differences between the Pioneer and Mikro, They drive differently but not enough for me to say one was better than the other.
Do you think players should have a reason to consider using lower tier vehicles, Or do you not care that conservatively speaking players never buy and use 60% of vehicles in the game?
Outside of pointlessly buffing every vehicle into equivalency, Increasing the cost to spawn is the only way to make lower tier vehicles viable choices over the popular high vehicles.
10 hours ago, glaciers said:i think you'd need each weapon to use its own specific ammo and each vehicle to have its own unique spawn cost for this kind of balancing to work, which is too much extra complication imo
Most low tier vehicles perform quite well even compared outside their tier, But the cost disadvantage for using a high tier vehicle is too low to affect the player's choice when it should.
Making new types of ammo for every weapon and balancing each with its own price would be less work than adjusting every characteristics of every weapon until they're all "balanced".
Imagine what problems the game would have if consumable items like Med Spray cost $200 instead of $2000 and you get an idea of the effect cheap ammo and vehicle spawn has been.
New mission system kicking us from district to district
in Social District (General Discussion)
Posted · Edited by Someone
Aside from reducing the number of loading screens the crime/witness element of APB isn't being leaned into enough to actually justify having the financial/waterfront districts as a matchmaking lobby.
Imagine if APB wasn't "open world" in the sense that logging into a character meant a player immediately spawned in to the social district, Where the matchmaker would only move players to the financial/waterfront districts when it has a mission with opposition and when the mission ends it kicked all players back to the social district. This would make APB like many other games where players see a loading screen before and after every session, But as far as gameplay is concerned the only thing this would change is eliminate the crime/witness gameplay loop that players hardly delve into anymore.
What this clearly shows is that to actually make the most of cross-district matchmaking is to allow players to start/search for missions while in the social district and to make the crime/witness gameplay more important and fun.