Yvez

It's absolutely fine that you can't find any examples of games that were shut down and went on to be revived and gain critical acclaim. Although, out of "all of these" two examples you provided, I don't know what "poe" is (I can only guess that it's Path of Exile but that doesn't appear to have shut down or failed at any point) and Warframe, so far as I know, didn't result in the developer going bust regardless of its slow start and bad reviews. But let us take these both as perfect examples of bad games turned good, for the sake of supporting your argument, which I think you may be forgiven for plucking out of thin air to support whatever it is you're trying to tell me (still not 100% clear by the way); this didn't happen with APB. This is a major reason, for me (and I stress "for me" because that was the basis of my OP), that APB didn't keep me playing for longer than I did; it started badly and even though it recovered with the help of G1, it stagnated and never really pushed on to generate an influx of new players, didn't generate enough revenue and, in the end, didn't move forward fast enough to keep me playing. The reason this didn't happen with APB is because it's incredibly rare for a game where its developer actually goes bust within months of its release to go on and be a commercial success. The fact that APB is even still here is a miracle. A happy one for me, personally. But a miracle nonetheless; it's unsurprising that its development never attained the levels required to really make this game hugely successful. Like Warframe appears to be, for a really good example. Can you please be more specific what you're trying to say, by the way? At this point, we know you think CS is not the same as APB (I also played CS and I totally agree with you on that point; that said, nowhere in any of my posts in this topic have I claimed otherwise). As useful a topic as that may be, I don't think it's got anything to do with this one, so I'm guessing you are really trying to tell me something else. I'm really interested to know what that is. After all, you can't possibly be trying to persuade me that my account of my own reasons for leaving the game are wrong, because that would be daft. PS Sorry but I don't use reddit. So, just for you, I've added some more spacing. I hope you like it! Merged. Sorry, can't edit my post but I wanted to add that if you maybe haven't picked up on it that I'm mostly being facetious with my posts to you. Whilst we probably disagree on a few things, I suspect that we both probably agree on a lot more (I didn't mention it but, let's face it, the rise of cheaters didn't help keep us playing and if anything can be said to “ruin” a game, then it’s cheaters - it was probably the final nail in the coffin for us - and I guess we can both agree that the game should have been better developed/supported over the years?) I agree with you that CS isn't a good comparison for APB, although I wasn't trying to compare them. I also agree that your perspective (I assume you didn't start playing the game in 2010?) is likely to be different to mine. I do respectfully disagree that my perspective as a returning player is irrelevant, though; I have the benefit of experiencing the game at its inception, during G1's tenure and now, around a year after LO took over, and that insight allows me to draw a pretty clear conclusion that the game hasn't significantly changed (definitely not considering it's almost a decade old). So a lot of what I thought of the game before holds true now and I think the responsibility now squarely lies with LO to change my perception. I don’t think the game’s popularity is likely to significantly change though. I’m guessing you agree with that.

Thanks again for your further replies. I enjoyed reading them a great deal. The only thing I really miss about the first iteration of APB is the TTK. Quite a lot of everything else in the current iteration is better than RTW's initial build. You're right, some games start slowly and build momentum over years. Though I don't know of any that became AAA+ successful after the developer went bust within three months of launching the game. That's quite some momentum if such a game exists. Let's try a couple direct questions: Do you think the launch of RTW was a success? Can you cite more than one example of a game that launched, was shut down within the first year and then went on to be a huge success? That's actually me being genuinely interested to know. Because my point is the game started really... really badly. I'm keen to know why you disagree. Or, if you don't disagree, why you are arguing my point.

Thanks for your reply. The sole point I was making is that apb started life badly, could have been handled better initially and really should have been much more successful early on than it was. By all means, if you'd like to rebut that point I'm very interested to see what your thoughts are. Definitely a lot more than your two logical fallacies you lead with here (strawman and ad hominem). PS I chose CS as my example not because it is a shooter and definitely not because I thought apb is at all similar to it. Around the time I recall CS was still one of the most populous Steam games. Apb didn't come close. I think it should have. It's a shame it didn't. It's directly linked to the state of the game today.

Nothing teaches them the way of the world quite like letting them get face-rolled by a dump truck grief squad early on in life.

Thanks! I'm not too worried either way but Matt went out of his way to message me and reassure me I should get them back (pretty impressed by that to be fair, says a lot about LO). I mainly want the slots back if possible and the customisations. Would like my old death theme back. My daughter just rolled a crim and spent 45 minutes customising her (she really loves customising cars as well), so potentially got another recruit hooked Will teach her how to ramraid and steal cars next time There used to be an instance where new players did basics and missions without being opposed. They don't exist now but the game still suggests you join them the first time you play.

As a returning player that started playing in RTW early access but hasn't played since about 2012, I can't comment much on what's happened during my hiatus but I can chip in as to what stopped me (and I suppose most of my friends) from logging in, finally. 1. Primary reason was basic, normal fatigue for the game. I don't think I've ever played a single online game for more than 3+ years straight. I don't think I'm alone. You should all consider that most online games don't thrive for longer than a couple years, let alone the nine years apb has been about for. It's an old game. 2. This really is linked to the second reason which is just that it started off badly and was managed poorly by RTW. I'm not going into the long list of issues, most of us will know them by rote. But, apb was never as popular as it possibly should have been at launch. It wasn't as popular even as Counter Strike was at that stage. And CS was ancient by then. So, the natural attrition of players over the years had a head start, really. 3. G1 Were my heroes, initially; without them, I'd never have played the game again after September 2010. But they just didn't have the resources to do what was really necessary. Or they didn't want to. Or, more likely, bought an IP that was never going to return nearly enough revenue to warrant the kind of investment apb actually needed (and still needs, I guess, though perhaps that horse has now bolted). So, yeh... Refer back to point 2. If RTW, may they rest in peace, had started it off better, things may have been very different. 4. The infamous TTK change. We (me and my clan mates) all hated it, both in principal and in practice. Undoubtedly, the weapons needed work back then. But what happened irrevocably altered the whole feel of the game. We complained. A lot. We accepted our complaints were futile. We adapted. We got used to it (those of us who stuck it out) but I still remember how that severely impacted our love for the game. It sort of never was the same from that moment on and that was really early in G1's tenure. 5. Threat, gold districts and, mainly player segregation. Almost the nail in the coffin. I've always advocated a smart, practical and seamless way to ensure we're closely matched to opponents of similar skill. G1 failed to deliver it. In a pretty big, messy way. Forced the horrible threat meta upon us. Didn't react nearly quickly enough. Severely reduced our enjoyment of the game. 6. Armas was pretty expensive and I really disliked the rental approach. Thankfully, I see that LO have significantly improved this (so much so that I'm considering some small investment if I keep playing). I think that sums it up. Obviously, still no engine upgrade in all the years since isn't great. I can imagine how that would have killed off quite a lot of the population. I'm not convinced Riot will have a significant positive impact. Perhaps if it was introduced in 2010... New game modes are new content, which should be a positive thing. But if they're not integrated with the existing content in a very old game, they just segregate population more. This is only justified if it brings in/back enough players. I didn't come back because of riot. So we'll see what that brings and if it's fun enough to do. The game itself is still fun. I'd say the engine upgrade (and so the ability to match make across instances/jurisdictions) is really key.

Hi all So, I thought I'd reinstall for a 30 minute nostalgia hit, fully intending to just see how the game ran with my current pc, remain firmly "Not ready" and drive about a bit to recall the good old times but then I went and stupidly readied up and 8 matches later I'm asking my old clan mate if he wants to get back into it because it was surprisingly fun. When will I learn? First thing is I noticed the only thing left intact of my account is the fact that I have one. All characters gone, all extra slots gone (ticket raised... Not too upset about it, I'm happy to start again from scratch but kinda think I should still have the stuff I did originally invest real money into), even my forum id isn't associated properly (but apparently the id is still taken, "Ydiss"). I originally bought RTW's version in early access, played through until it went belly up, mourned and tried to fill the void with games that never quite scratched the same itch, rejoiced when G1 resurrected it, played for several months after the relaunch until the segregation, apparent lack of borked mission fixes and general, natural fatigue for the game stopped me playing. That was about 2012 I guess. I've read a lot here to give myself a bit of a refresher on the status quo, what's happening; interesting development with LO, not so interested in yet another game mode to ultimately segregate population further, noticing the community hasn't changed in the slightest - both negative and positive, read that as you like - pleasantly surprised that the game is still going. But, mainly, really surprised I actually enjoyed my first session in seven years. We were all golds back in the day but I fully expected to return, get steamrolled by gold premades (or just not match up at all) and just not have any fun. My expectation was subverted nicely. So, thought I'd give a brief account of my returning player experience in case anyone cares. Once I'd gotten over the slight disappointment of seeing no characters, shrugged it off, created a throwaway criminal and chosen a name (noting that my old character names are still taken...), the biggest no no (and probably the only one) was the game prompted me into the tutorial district. I'd forgotten it doesn't exist (I think they were scrapped right at the end of my time playing) and the game promptly set about trying to load me into a nonexistent instance, with no way to quit except using task manager. I had to Google to work out what was going wrong. That's a bit of an issue for new players. Anyway, loaded back straight into Financial and walked through the tutorials (useful to remember muscle memory, reset my keys to how they used to be and remind myself the various controls and ui setup; not entirely certain doing away with the mission guides was a great idea for brand new players but didn't affect me). Of course, the tutorial didn't take long before prompting me to ready up (sneaky!) and so I did. Might as well... Straight in to oppose a mission. Me versus two silvers. Oh, APB, how I've missed you, my old friend Got my backside roundly thrashed, surgically removed and handed back to me with a cherry on top. Baby steps. Muscle memory started to kick in, map memory was still strong, started to get into my rhythm again... By the 2nd match I got an assist on a multi backup mission... Then got my first kills on the 3rd or 4th mission. By the 8th, I was pretty much back into it, hooked again, winning as many missions as I lost. Had to stop myself readying up again, as it was late. Overall impression is match making didn't feel so bad. Saw a handful of golds but only because of some overzealous backup calls. Otherwise, it was mostly silver with one or two bronze. What really surprised me is that no one blew me away in terms of skill. Almost all of the players were not at a level that would have caused us concern way back when. I'm certain that'll change as my threat rises and I'll start to see more great players that have stuck around for years, but it didn't feel like the player population was significantly distorted in the session. By the time I'd finished I'd really been reminded that there really isn't a game that's like APB. It's harsh as it always was, unforgiving, has frustrating moments and quite often isn't fair... But no other game captures that feeling of racing through the streets (even in my piddly starter car) to the next objective, the anticipation of where and when the enemy will arrive, the chaos (that map knowledge converts to advantage) of the battles, naff spawns or the thrill of outsmarting and getting the jump on someone, quite like this game does. It helps that I'm technically a veteran (I'm not convinced I'd have enjoyed this as a "new player" experience as much as I did back when it was new for everyone); where I'm undeniably rusty and horribly out of practice, I still remember the maps and most of the objectives and what to do. I think it also helps that I don't care nearly as much about it as I did back then, quite happy to lose whilst I level back up and get my beloved carbine back. But, the overall feeling was "that was really fun". I hope LO can keep it going a bit longer. Not sure how long I'll stick around this time. I don't play nearly as much as I used to. So maybe it'll be a while. See you in San Paro.