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Ketog

Delays in the trading function

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So i posted this in the OTW forum quite a while ago , but it honestly didn't get much attention as it should have been , but now that the trading system is live , i have a valid reason to post this here :

I remember the first day you told us about the trade system is live on OTW we jumped in and see the 7 days trade hold  , a fix  later and you removed the trade hold great !, and we can trade as much as we want in a day that's pretty nice !

But there's one single thing that bothers me here , and it happened after doing a sucessful trade :

unknown.png
Is there really any point to this ?
if the person you're trading with wants a gun to then trade it for something else with another person , he will have to wait 3 days just to do so ? that's bad .


i honestly don't understand what's up with all those wait times , you have to wait 7 days for this , then 3 days for that .
There's so many games where you can trade your stuff freely , so why can't we in APB ?

With a friend we thought about this system and it's original fuction was to prevent scams from trading using the market right ? , well this trade hold is a new reason for middlemans to exist , why ? because people are going to use them only to avoid that trade hold , that seems absurd right ? ,well not really , thing is there's people that trade a lot every day , and when they get a weapon , sometimes they're just planning to use it for another trade .

As weird as it sounds , as long as those trade holds are there , middlemans will still be a thing because you can just trade without any restriction using them .


TLDR : I would rather trade using a middleman so i can trade that stuff again as fast i want , but if there was no 3day delay in the trade system , i would do all my trades using it so i wouldn't have to use a middleman and be safe from scammers.
Edited by Ketog
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I guess they didn't want to completely devalue using the marketplace, since it's a necessary APB$ sink.

Trade delays usually are a layer of security in case your account gets hijacked, but it's irrelevant here since you can already bypass it via player-reserved offers in the marketplace.
Player-reserved offers are also a way to bypass the gold sink since the market tax scales according to sale price (if you are willing to resort to multi-step trading or middlemen).

Are market bots still a thing in 2018?
 

Edited by Talla

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i’m also hearing that if player 1 alters the trade (i.e. quickly removes an item) after player 2 accepts, player 1 can still accept the trade and it will go through

seeing as this system was held back specifically so that various scamming exploits could be fixed, why is it that the trade doesn’t default to “unaccepted” if any items are removed or added?

then again i’m hearing this secondhand so who knows if it’s correct

edit: spazzed

 

Edited by BXNNXD

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11 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

i’m also hearing that if player 1 alters the trade (i.e. quickly removes an item) after player 2 accepts, player 1 can still accept the trade and it will go through

seeing as this system was held back specifically so that various scamming exploits could be fixed, why is it that the trade doesn’t default to “unaccepted” if any items are removed or added?

then again i’m hearing this secondhand so who knows if it’s correct

I tested it on OTW before and it auto unaccepted when something was changed, even on your end

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23 minutes ago, Kevkof said:

I tested it on OTW before and it auto unaccepted when something was changed, even on your end

cool, no need for me then

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Im sure they put that in so people can lend some one all their legendarys  and then give them back on a regular basis. Sorta like account sharing but not sharing account but legendarys.

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3 minutes ago, CAVEGRAFFITTl said:

Im sure they put that in so people can lend some one all their legendarys  and then give them back on a regular basis. Sorta like account sharing but not sharing account but legendarys.

I played runescape long time ago. they added a lending system maby its a nice thing to for weapons 
so you can lend a gun for x hours for some money or free from a friend
 
1 hour ago, Ketog said:
So i posted this in the OTW forum quite a while ago , but it honestly didn't get much attention as it should have been , but now that the trading system is live , i have a valid reason to post this here :

I remember the first day you told us about the trade system is live on OTW we jumped in and see the 7 days trade hold  , a fix  later and you removed the trade hold great !, and we can trade as much as we want in a day that's pretty nice !

But there's one single thing that bothers me here , and it happened after doing a sucessful trade :

unknown.png
Is there really any point to this ?
if the person you're trading with wants a gun to then trade it for something else with another person , he will have to wait 3 days just to do so ? that's bad .


i honestly don't understand what's up with all those wait times , you have to wait 7 days for this , then 3 days for that .
There's so many games where you can trade your stuff freely , so why can't we in APB ?

With a friend we thought about this system and it's original fuction was to prevent scams from trading using the market right ? , well this trade hold is a new reason for middlemans to exist , why ? because people are going to use them only to avoid that trade hold , that seems absurd right ? ,well not really , thing is there's people that trade a lot every day , and when they get a weapon they're just looking to use it for another trade .

As weird as it sounds , as long as those trade holds are there , middlemans will still be a thing because you can just trade without any restriction using them .

I think he's  right about the using of midle man for people who love to trade
im not going to wait 3 days.

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Hi guys,

The system is working as intended. It'll take a couple days to "warm up" and lift the restrictions.
There are a lot of complicated mechanisms that we put in place to safeguard fraud and abuse.
Hopefully players will find the new system after the initial wait periods are lifted.

Thanks,
Matt

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3 minutes ago, MattScott said:

Hi guys,

The system is working as intended. It'll take a couple days to "warm up" and lift the restrictions.
There are a lot of complicated mechanisms that we put in place to safeguard fraud and abuse.
Hopefully players will find the new system after the initial wait periods are lifted.

Thanks,
Matt

Sounds good. Let's see how it's looking in some days!

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1 hour ago, Talla said:

Trade delays usually are a layer of security in case your account gets hijacked, but it's irrelevant here since you can already bypass it via player-reserved offers in the marketplace.
Player-reserved offers are also a way to bypass the gold sink since the market tax scales according to sale price (if you are willing to resort to multi-step trading or middlemen).

Now with the trade system in place, it probably would be best to remove the ability to put up an item for a specific player through the marketplace. I also believe that lack of taxation will have an longterm adverse effect due to inflation.

Does anyone know if you need to refurbish items before you perform a trade with a player?
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6 minutes ago, Dopefish said:
Now with the trade system in place, it probably would be best to remove the ability to put up an item for a specific player through the marketplace. I also believe that lack of taxation will have an longterm adverse effect due to inflation.

Does anyone know if you need to refurbish items before you perform a trade with a player?
I think the marktplace restriction is still needed for some situations. About the taxes I share the same opinion: Now without taxes there will be a huge amount of new money each day.
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Just now, iTzBlackout said:
8 minutes ago, Dopefish said:
Now with the trade system in place, it probably would be best to remove the ability to put up an item for a specific player through the marketplace. I also believe that lack of taxation will have an longterm adverse effect due to inflation.

Does anyone know if you need to refurbish items before you perform a trade with a player?
I think the marktplace restriction is still needed for some situations. About the taxes I share the same opinion: Now without taxes there will be a huge amount of new money each day.
except you can't trade offline, duh.

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This is good feedback. We're going to monitor this closely and watch inflation.

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1 minute ago, MattScott said:

This is good feedback. We're going to monitor this closely and watch inflation.

Glad to hear that! Thank you.

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1 hour ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

Make it so premium gives you no wait time on trades. 🙂

That would work.
Lemme add to that.

Change ARMAS item sales into 2 kinds:
1. Mail-sent Items, tradeable to other players after refurbishing. Activated leases cannot be refurbished.
2. Mail-sent Unlocks, allowing to purchase unlimited lease of an item from a contact. Purchasable for the duration of the account, but untradeable.  (Has the advantage to be deletable from your locker but retrievable, great if you're busting max capacity)

Why?
It would be the perfect opportunity to turn the game into a true Free-to-Play, where any player can access any content within the game.

By allowing Armas shoppers to trade in-game items to other, non-paying players' APB$, you increase content accessibility and boost sales at the same time. For many reasons, some players will never spend a dime in a F2P.

This would work better if there was an actual reason to accumulate APB$ for players who reached the "endgame".

You could even sell a "<3 || 7 || 30> days premium" tradeable consumable. I bet that would become really popular. Edited by Talla
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2 hours ago, MattScott said:

Hi guys,

The system is working as intended. It'll take a couple days to "warm up" and lift the restrictions.
There are a lot of complicated mechanisms that we put in place to safeguard fraud and abuse.
Hopefully players will find the new system after the initial wait periods are lifted.

Thanks,
Matt

Oooh so it's there to prevent possible glitch abuse?

I personally think the trading system should be tax free, because you have to be online to accept a trade. Consider it a benefit of using the trade system over marketplace purchases

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11 minutes ago, Talla said:
That would work.
Lemme add to that.

Change ARMAS item sales into 2 kinds:
1. Mail-sent Items, tradeable to other players after refurbishing. Activated leases cannot be refurbished.
2. Mail-sent Unlocks, allowing to purchase unlimited lease of an item from a contact. Purchasable for the duration of the account, but untradeable.  (Has the advantage to be deletable from your locker but retrievable, great if you're busting max capacity)

Why?
It would be the perfect opportunity to turn the game into a true Free-to-Play, where any player can access any content within the game.

By allowing Armas shoppers to trade in-game items to other, non-paying players' APB$, you increase content accessibility and boost sales at the same time. For many reasons, some players will never spend a dime in a F2P.

This would work better if there was an actual reason to accumulate APB$ for players who reached the "endgame".

You could even sell a "X days premium" tradeable consumable. I bet that would quickly become popular.
i feel like that promotes RMT far too much, something orbit has already said they dont like

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10 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:
i feel like that promotes RMT far too much, something orbit has already said they dont like
How do you goldfarm APB?
Create a ramraiding bot?

It would really ease the divide between paying users & F2Pers.
Ever heard something along the lines of: "Your Armas CR-5/PDW-57 is OP"? Edited by Talla
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5 minutes ago, Talla said:
How do you goldfarm APB?
Create a ramraiding bot?
no idea, i just remember there being hella goldfarmer spam back in obt

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2 hours ago, Dopefish said:
Now with the trade system in place, it probably would be best to remove the ability to put up an item for a specific player through the marketplace. I also believe that lack of taxation will have an longterm adverse effect due to inflation.

Does anyone know if you need to refurbish items before you perform a trade with a player?

Do not remove marketplace restriction please, being able to put up items restricted to a player is still extremely useful, and removing the feature doesn't help anyone, lol.

If I'm just giving something to a friend I don't want to need to be online at the same time as them, and that's the closest thing we have to mailing legendaries (not to mention mailing other items they can be destroyed by time technically.)

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4 hours ago, Dopefish said:
Now with the trade system in place, it probably would be best to remove the ability to put up an item for a specific player through the marketplace. I also believe that lack of taxation will have an longterm adverse effect due to inflation.

Does anyone know if you need to refurbish items before you perform a trade with a player?

 

1 hour ago, Kewlin said:

Do not remove marketplace restriction please, being able to put up items restricted to a player is still extremely useful, and removing the feature doesn't help anyone, lol.

If I'm just giving something to a friend I don't want to need to be online at the same time as them, and that's the closest thing we have to mailing legendaries (not to mention mailing other items they can be destroyed by time technically.)
I agree with Kewlin here. It's not hurting anyone, and if you want the item back it doesn't have a trade ban on it(only applies to legendaries i think)

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I didn't read anything here but I'll add my tears to this topic.
I was planning to reinstall APB to my harddrive to try and get away from the typical "ran out of memory..." crash, even though I got 16GB of DDR4 and 300GB free on my SSD where APB currently is installed.
Guess I'll keep crashing, trading/selling/buying is too important.

Also thanks LO I wanted to gift one of my ursus to a friend but he can't trade cos he only installed the game today after quitting due to the shotguns being so boring.

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Well i was wrong Apparently people still want to use middlemen, 1 out of the 2 times i was asked i just told them how to use the trading system (after that i got tired and just middleman'd as usual).
Restrict to player has no reason to be remove In fact it's how i got my Legendary back when i lent it to a friend and was offline when he sent it back i Caught it just before it expired in 2 hours.

Marketplace needs some upgrades the divide in benefit between direct trading and marketplace needs to be greater Perhaps stifle the chance of inflation (why use trading when you can sell items for 7 days?)

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