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Aroa Croft

questions about the possible future of the game

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Casual thoughts and opinions after going through two game revivals (FFXIV and Secret World);

With the smashing success of FFXIV destroying 1.0 and responding to all the testing feedback (finally) to make 2.0 and onwards, many companies have been going back and re-assessing older content as possibly viable as relaunching with updated code and more 'polish' on old systems and regretfully bad decisions in the past. "If Final Fantasy can relaunch a bad game into a good one, we can do it too!" Along with a heartfelt apology from the team Director before firing all the old staff and hiring a new team to head the new and improved game.

Something that sets FFXIV apart from other companies however, is the relaunch actually happened during the aftermath chaos of the Tsunami that they still are feeling the impacts of today. The money they were making on the game wasnt just lining their pockets, but being mass donated to relief teams and rebuilding neighborhoods, and their fanbase knew about it and were encouraging others to subscribe in an effort to help a positive force in their home country. While some diehard fans loved and adored 1.0 and wish it had never gone away, its obvious the revival was way more successful and Square Enix has no problems with having "Only" a 2 million player fanbase. Titles and vanity items were rewarded to people who graduated from 1.0 and were willing to give them another chance with 2.0. Items and titles that will never be reprinted just so those early adopters can stand out and say they did something good for the game and how it was before. I love the company enough that at one point I just didn't play for a year due to IRL circumstances but I kept my sub running and had someone manage my house because I believed in the game and the company that was managing it.

My experience with Secret World has been drastically different, and a large part of it is due to the Grandmaster accounts. As a Grandmaster myself, I have a bunch of Pre-release content that can never be reclaimed due to the old ARG's that ran on Facebook that were shut down due to literally breaking the engine when their first 'real life minigame' happened. Most these items are of no consequence and can be re-claimed and now recolored under the new system, but there is one outfit that cannot be re-earned, ever, and is tied directly to a specific account. This was the only thing I was concerned about when they announced their re-launch, but other Grandmasters had the same problems as Sang or Mutare; Having been there from the beginning, collected everything, and stockpiling defunct or non-retroactive items that can no longer be earned and DEMANDING their progress to be pushed into the relaunch of Secret World Legends.

Unlike most games, Secret World was more about Vanity than anything else. Your character equipment never showed up on your render save for maybe a bracelet or an earring. It was all about weapon skins you liked and buying shirts and pants by talking to vendors or mysterious traveling men in an old run down bus or through various hard earned achievements. For many,t he thought of re-earning these vanity items after years and years of play was THE WORST thing imaginable as it was the only way they could differentiate themselves from everyone else. I've actually seen fights break out over someone having a similar outfit or 'copying someones look' even though the cheapest outfits are all one piece and you CANT change their appearance (hoodies are stupidly common, as are people fighting, claiming the look only belongs to them)... So when the relaunch was announced, more than half their playerbase stated they would not move to the next game or even promote it unless their ENTIRE vanity library was converted into t he new game. There were essentially riots and the devs got piled with demands and eventually caved and had people write down a mass list of items they wanted transferred into the next system. (TDLR; during a live stream, they mentioned they had to move and test the textures of 6,000 clothing items alone, which delayed their relaunch by quite a bit, on top of other issues.)

When the relaunch of the game came up, there were a lot of rumors going around and a great deal of people HATED the new gimmick based combat system. Not just because every weapon suddenly had a Borderlands style reflex roulette tied to every weapon, but because the build customization process was ripped out completely and now it just railroads people into specific paths. The entire reason to promote the game as independent and unique and a must experience feel, was gutted and now its more of a visual novel game with a korean style upgrade system where none of your gear actually matters because its all exactly the same anyway. They even dropped their MMO tag and forcibly lowered the population cap of all maps despite claiming they were upgrading the engine to deal with the lag and problems that cropped up when more than 20 people were on the same map (the old map cap was 80. Now its 10).

The worst aspect in my opinion of Secret World Legends relaunch (and this is a very personal opinion) wasnt so much that the head developer played "Division" and suddenly wanted to force everyone into controller only reticle play (And was basically lynched by his own staff and forced to put keyboard controls back into the engine), but that the previous incarnation greatly respected and was very open arms about the Roleplayers that had gravitated to the game and the hundreds of people that put work into making the world seem alive with parties, events, giveaways, radio stations and so on.  There were two different groups (one of them used to actually play here before G1!) that were dedicated to meeting up int he newbie zone and pulling off roleplay events and patrols that new players could join in on even if it was their first day and they were still learning ho to move. I spent years watching and recording these group efforts and how many people they brought in to be permanent subscribers, and how much they begged the devs to leave the newbie zone unrestricted so they could keep promoting and creating long term players. I even used to give tours of the first few dungeons, showing new players around while in character, acting like an agent taking greenhorns around to their first missions and playing up the Chtulhu jump scare and so on...

FunCom decided to strip the protections on roleplayers, remove all references save for one to people who had helped the game in the past, reduced the range of local chat to pretty much only the people up in your face, shut down regularly used instances for events, crated an ugly hub no one actually wanted and reeks of micro transactions, shoved all lore heavy events into one bland arena that gets re-used for everything now instead of the world breaker events which brought people into old maps to do content, and generally and openly forced the "Isolation" feeling on its players. They legit said in a live stream that they didnt like how populated the adventure maps were and told people they should feel like there was more danger to their missions, so they dropped the MMO tag and reduced the player relationships to almost nothing.

Now they are re-introducing content the old game had before and are trying to sell it as brand new content for late game when it used to be tutorial faction missions. Trying to play Secret World Legends is like asking FunCom to shovel another load of horse dung into my mouth and expecting me to like it. In comparison, FFXIV feels like I'm being handed content on a silver platter thats  constantly updating and changing, NPCs recognize my accomplishments and I have so much to do that I can play a whole day and barely notice time has passed.


TDLR; I understand older players not wanting to give up their stuff, but I'm also wary of people making promises to the older players and doing exactly the opposite with intent of chasing out its former player base. Compromises can be reached, but it'd take a lot of discussion and questioning what individual players think are actively important to them. Reputation can be boosted with injectors, but fruit from the pre-G1 system will dissolve into ones and zeroes if moved but not reinstated, etc.

Somewhat unrelated tangent;

Icarus used to have a two page section in their terms of service specifically about what constituted as harassment and that you weren't allowed to claim you were 'just role playing' to repeatedly harass someone, general guidelines about the kind of play that was and wasn't welcome (where do you think those old tool tips about ignoring elves and paladins came from) and generally was the first game I'd ever seen that had something protecting and adoring their role player fans. G1 completely removed the section and the community rapidly went down hill with no one to keep them in check and I can think of multiple incidents where people with multiple accouters went after one RPer because he said "No" to someones party or a girl turned down a dance. If our new big boss CEO loves role playing events, it'd be nice to revisit what the company is willing to do regarding support.

Edited by Ardenn
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7 hours ago, Ardenn said:

snip

Yeah the FFXIV way is vastly superior. Then again it's as much the players working with the devs. From how it seems it just looks like TSW players being whiney(even assuming it wasn't a downgrade they were getting). Then again it seems to be far too early to even get into this discussion. The graphics are prob just 1 of the things they are doing to see how feasible it would be in another engine and to what extent they can do things. FE for what it is wouldn't be an easy transfer even just map setup...nevermind the plethora of other things they would have to(or well should) address.

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actual state of game in "population terms" are very bad, and is obviusly something must be done.

A new fresh start is the most easy way to try make game " populated" again.
i know  there is some risks  because it can work or it cant work, but at this " dead population actual state" lets say damage is not apreciable ( lets say 40 people are actively playing game so is not a big problem)

Some of you say things as ( i did a lot grinda lot of years, i played a lot of years and i no want lose my things!, i will not play if is a new start!!, or similars things)
From my part, i did a lot of grind too and i dont care to lose " all i played all years" for  try make game " a fun populated again".

I see  some selfish  who not think in game and they only think of themselves

New server and keep old server will show reallity, i bet nobody will go to old server and new one will be populated ( since new server will get updates and old one not)

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3 hours ago, Aroa Croft said:

actual state of game in "population terms" are very bad, and is obviusly something must be done.

A new fresh start is the most easy way to try make game " populated" again.
i know  there is some risks  because it can work or it cant work, but at this " dead population actual state" lets say damage is not apreciable ( lets say 40 people are actively playing game so is not a big problem)

Some of you say things as ( i did a lot grinda lot of years, i played a lot of years and i no want lose my things!, i will not play if is a new start!!, or similars things)
From my part, i did a lot of grind too and i dont care to lose " all i played all years" for  try make game " a fun populated again".

I see  some selfish  who not think in game and they only think of themselves

New server and keep old server will show reallity, i bet nobody will go to old server and new one will be populated ( since new server will get updates and old one not)

And how is a fresh start the only way to do it? Yes it needs more players and it can be done in many ways. Just have a look at Trion and all the fresh starts they have done in ArcheAge......

And your view is noted a 100 times on this forums, and the old forum, but for many a fresh start will be the end of the game, as they have spent hours getting stuff they wanted from it, and not doing a quickstep around a tent outside LA. We all play this game for our own enjoyment, and that is not the same for all.

Not even sure how many want a old school MMO anymore, the new Fortnite generation wants thing that takes max a hour each time....

Porting this old and custom game to any engine will be a massive job, just look at all the new MMOs in development, many get shutdown way before its even ready to test due to the cost of doing it.

But I can understand LO wanting to try and in the same time wipe all data clean, will remove many problems that exists in the current database....

I will probably be one of those that will not come back if the change is only a new game engine. Will need a major overhaul to be done then.

So for me this game is now going into a holding pattern, will see when and if LO ever gets anything done and decide what to do then. Depending on manpower this will take a looong time anyway.

And to LO: Scrap that antichat and make a antidupe instead, or maybe one that does both... Give the players split back for how long this is going to take 😄

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28 minutes ago, McHondy said:
And how is a fresh start the only way to do it? Yes it needs more players and it can be done in many ways. Just have a look at Trion and all the fresh starts they have done in ArcheAge......

And your view is noted a 100 times on this forums, and the old forum, but for many a fresh start will be the end of the game, as they have spent hours getting stuff they wanted from it, and not doing a quickstep around a tent outside LA. We all play this game for our own enjoyment, and that is not the same for all.

Not even sure how many want a old school MMO anymore, the new Fortnite generation wants thing that takes max a hour each time....

Porting this old and custom game to any engine will be a massive job, just look at all the new MMOs in development, many get shutdown way before its even ready to test due to the cost of doing it.

But I can understand LO wanting to try and in the same time wipe all data clean, will remove many problems that exists in the current database....

I will probably be one of those that will not come back if the change is only a new game engine. Will need a major overhaul to be done then.

So for me this game is now going into a holding pattern, will see when and if LO ever gets anything done and decide what to do then. Depending on manpower this will take a looong time anyway.

And to LO: Scrap that antichat and make a antidupe instead, or maybe one that does both... Give the players split back for how long this is going to take 😄
lets say archeage have totally diferent gameplay, fallen earth had always one server ( lets say superlaggy server since gores patch was released) and lets say fallen earth is adicting in terms of pvp wich is totally diferent anyone game and unique.
we cant compare archeage or tera or fornite or another " phantasy game" with fallen earth , its not fair and grinding in those games is more abusive or they are alot diferent type games.

Sorry hear you not playing game if fresh start coming, but if fresh start comes and you see " no laggy game", with anticheat and with better engine graphics  i am sure you will play, and i bet you will play again the same history from 0 with advantage since you know " what to do" and new player " dont know what to do" .

The fail i see is a fresh start with actual maps/ weapon/ armors, i see it as a error.
I think game need to be as before gores it was, being faction/dt/level equip and weapons with same stats or equivalent, because monsters/pve/ pvp was fun in that times and game worked very good, giving posibility to LO to remake  gores --actual patchs in better way, and focusing game to pve way more than pvp way as g1 did not

Here is the chance to lo change everything ( more mision, more things) but always starting from a working faction state ( since  game is faction and it matters).
Probably game will be new for everyone when they make new patches from a " working point" as i suggesting.

All this is my point of view, thanks for read
 
 
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Funny thing is, I don't tell anyone how they should play the game. I stated what I would do. And for that, I'm being given shitee.  @ Aroa..I am glad you think the game needs a reboot, but you do NOT speak for me or any of the thousands of other players.  SO stop generalizing all players into your views.   Allow folks to voice their thoughts.  You have certainly made your thoughts vocal..I wonder if you think if you yell  loud enough,  they will listen to only you.  But the truth is Little Orbit has their own views of what they will do with Fallen Earth, they are the ones who bought it, so whatever happens, it is Little Orbit who decides.   A wipe and starting over as a Beta player who has been active in this game for nearly a decade, and never been banned, been a Hazmat, been a clan leader, runs events, I will not redo anything.  I can say that. You do not need to chastise me for that.

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I personally do not feel like starting over from scratch for the SAME DAMN GAME with eye candy, why anyone would waste time a resources try to make a broken game look pretty makes no sense to me. Now if it was a Fallen Earth 2 and not just the same damn thing over again i would not mind starting from zero again. But as far as a polished turd of the same damn game hell no. Guess I will be done with FE when the time comes and will just uninstall.

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5 hours ago, Mutarenebula said:

Funny thing is, I don't tell anyone how they should play the game. I stated what I would do. And for that, I'm being given shitee.  @ Aroa..I am glad you think the game needs a reboot, but you do NOT speak for me or any of the thousands of other players.  SO stop generalizing all players into your views.   Allow folks to voice their thoughts.  You have certainly made your thoughts vocal..I wonder if you think if you yell  loud enough,  they will listen to only you.  But the truth is Little Orbit has their own views of what they will do with Fallen Earth, they are the ones who bought it, so whatever happens, it is Little Orbit who decides.   A wipe and starting over as a Beta player who has been active in this game for nearly a decade, and never been banned, been a Hazmat, been a clan leader, runs events, I will not redo anything.  I can say that. You do not need to chastise me for that.

excuse me, but i am just giving my opinion about " actual state of game", this actual state of " no population game, "broken game due bad patches done", "no adicting game at all and very boring".
Dunno why you say i am " generalizing" when i am not doing, i repeat it again............ i just giving my opinion about what game needs for repopulate again.
Said this, i no say game need " a reboot" as you say, if you read carefully you can read about i suggest game need " a reboot in a certain point game was fun ( before gores)" and at that point try make new patches coming more pve oriented,
I know you are old player, but you must understand i am old player too, but that not matters nothing, your opinion is not more better than mine because you were not baned, you were hazmat or whatever.

At this point, is no more solution that i exposed to try recover population, you really think a " new player ( for much they like atmosphere game) will come to fallen earth knowing is a very old game with no population?, seriusly mutare you need some marketing classes.
Sorry to hear your coments about if relaunch is done you will not play, well, you must know is not another way , if they change code they necesary need doing it ( change code probably means no lag and supergraphics and a future updates for your info)
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As a casual FE player, who left for a while but just want a update to get back, here's what i would do:

- New server. I'm sorry for the veterans who stuck for the 9 years on the same server, but FE needs a fresh start with it's new stuff. Word of mouth does wonders, and a fresh start allows people to compete on the same foot. The world thrives. You have 9 years of a game plagued by duping, hacking, etc etc. Do not attempt to make this game economy seem less broken. It isn't, and honestly, LO should NOT keep it in Limbo just because you want to sit on a throne or whatever. Keep the old server, allow the cosmetic stuff to be transfered, you earned that right, and some of the convenience, but keep everything advantageous OUT of the new server.

"You reign over nothing."

- I would lock leveling for like one, or two months into Sector 2. Mix the 6 factions into 3 ( better balancing pvp-wise. Chota+Vista ( Nature-savagery faction ), Tech+Traveler ( Amoral scientists and enterpreneurs ) and Lightbringer+Enfos ( Good set of morals, kinda overreacting on the whole establishment thing. ). Make the faction zone more central and allow pvp INSIDE the faction zone. Which means you would end up pvp'ing for some resources that other factiosn compete. Don't keep all the pvp zones so far away. So, by this placement: You could circle S2 to PvE level, and then go to your faction hub, and grab your quest reps and such. The most rewarding quests would be inside the faction zone, a circle that would be central in the S2 and allow for some cool combat. Hell, you could put some awesome city ruins for a more lore approach of a city needing to be controled.

I think S2 gets you to level 30? Some quest rewards and xp could be adjusted, but overall, the better idea would be to keep crafting weaponry better than questing stuff, so crafters would be way more valuable.

Of course, this is just an idea. LO has way more urgent issues to solve.

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You can't compare an Archeage fresh start to a Fallen Earth one.
Fresh start on Archeage is the last way TRINO have to make money with their cashshop updates.
They don't care about players. TRINO is from far the worst company i've ever seen.
They shouldn't be able to work on video games, it's an insult to players and people who would have liked to work on videos games like me. It's a mess.
Archeage is a constantly race to get stuffed, on fresh start you mainly have new players, comeback players (who gave up their old account a long time ago) and some fulltime players / P2W who play also on legacy servers.
Archeage fresh start servers get empty very quickly.
After 4 years the gap between new and old players is too important, even with the planned obsolescence of the stuff.
It is pretty easy to get stuffed on Fallen Earth compared to Archeage and it's a good thing.
They are so desperate that recently they have completely changed the combat system (like G1 did) and we still have an unbalanced game.
In my opinion a Fallen Earth restart could only be benefic if it solve technical problems. Otherwise it will be worse than good.

Edited by Kishoot

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So, pre-gore? Why don't go further back? For me as a crafter/PvE player, the decline started with the suits covering more then 1 slot. A MMO has to evolve and expand, not going back, and players will always have to adapt to those changes... And as always there will be as many views on how to evolve the game(s) that there are players 😄

So for now i will do my adapting to the current situation in FE, leave and just keep monitoring the situation hopping that LO can pull something off.

See you all around. This game addict is off searching for the next fix.

 

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It's sad to say but i feel all of this is just a waste of time. Some want a wipe so everyone starts new which will drive away players, maybe not all but enough it will hurt. Many seem to be looking forward to this revamp on a new engine which would require starting from scratch too i guess. Either way this game was NEVER all that popular even though some of you act like it was one of the top games in it's day. Well it wasn't and never will be, FE is one of those games that your average gamer would by chance try if someone recommended it, many would look it up and not waste their time. This game has never in it's life seen populations like many other games have over the years. So i don't see a revamped version of this bringing tons of players rushing to download it. Dream all you want about FE remastered but personally I think it is a waste of time that is going to kill off a somewhat mediocre game that only a certain group of gamers do enjoy. It was a good run while it lasted, but even if i had the desire to start from scratch on a new engine it is hard for me to believe it will be any better. Sorry but I have no faith in them making this game great again on a new engine if they can't even fix it how it is now. Either way I may or may not ride it out to the end on the original game, everyday it just gets more sensible to just uninstall for good and move on. I know some who have already.

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3 hours ago, McHondy said:

So, pre-gore? Why don't go further back? For me as a crafter/PvE player, the decline started with the suits covering more then 1 slot. A MMO has to evolve and expand, not going back, and players will always have to adapt to those changes... And as always there will be as many views on how to evolve the game(s) that there are players 😄

So for now i will do my adapting to the current situation in FE, leave and just keep monitoring the situation hopping that LO can pull something off.

See you all around. This game addict is off searching for the next fix.

 

I see pre-gore patch a good point to start a new fresh start because game had a lot of choices in terms of similar weapons/ equipment and blood sports were very populated in every levels.
About suits covering more than 1 slot you talking about i not see any problems, because all of them had negative stats making them similar or equal to another ones were covering 1 slot.
And the most important thing was, faction equip/weapons were powerfull or similar to all others before gores patch.
This game is faction based or i want to believe who started making game was this, and from my point of view was " gores patch" when all changed, making game a failure in idea of faction based game.
Any other similar point as you suggest is welcome for me, but necesary needs to be before gores,
Think about  relaunch game with no changes, people will jump s2,s3,terminal, alpha.... evry player will go to get that " easy to make armor" in last  patch map  and ap weapons, all other existing equip will be crap again because is not similarity on stats at all.

9 hours ago, Kishoot said:

You can't compare an Archeage fresh start to a Fallen Earth one.
Fresh start on Archeage is the last way TRINO have to make money with their cashshop updates.
They don't care about players. TRINO is from far the worst company i've ever seen.
They shouldn't be able to work on video games, it's an insult to players and people who would have liked to work on videos games like me. It's a mess.
Archeage is a constantly race to get stuffed, on fresh start you mainly have new players, comeback players (who gave up their old account a long time ago) and some fulltime players / P2W who play also on legacy servers.
Archeage fresh start servers get empty very quickly.
After 4 years the gap between new and old players is too important, even with the planned obsolescence of the stuff.
It is pretty easy to get stuffed on Fallen Earth compared to Archeage and it's a good thing.
They are so desperate that recently they have completely changed the combat system (like G1 did) and we still have an unbalanced game.
In my opinion a Fallen Earth restart could only be benefic if it solve technical problems. Otherwise it will be worse than good.

Thats is just i said, just evading to a point as pre gores patch will resolve some tecnical problems.
A relaunch at actual game play point will not resolve nothing, it will just add players some time but players will say bye bye when see is unfair equip and not a lot of choices for get fun.

9 hours ago, CorbinBarret said:

As a casual FE player, who left for a while but just want a update to get back, here's what i would do:

- New server. I'm sorry for the veterans who stuck for the 9 years on the same server, but FE needs a fresh start with it's new stuff. Word of mouth does wonders, and a fresh start allows people to compete on the same foot. The world thrives. You have 9 years of a game plagued by duping, hacking, etc etc. Do not attempt to make this game economy seem less broken. It isn't, and honestly, LO should NOT keep it in Limbo just because you want to sit on a throne or whatever. Keep the old server, allow the cosmetic stuff to be transfered, you earned that right, and some of the convenience, but keep everything advantageous OUT of the new server.

"You reign over nothing."

- I would lock leveling for like one, or two months into Sector 2. Mix the 6 factions into 3 ( better balancing pvp-wise. Chota+Vista ( Nature-savagery faction ), Tech+Traveler ( Amoral scientists and enterpreneurs ) and Lightbringer+Enfos ( Good set of morals, kinda overreacting on the whole establishment thing. ). Make the faction zone more central and allow pvp INSIDE the faction zone. Which means you would end up pvp'ing for some resources that other factiosn compete. Don't keep all the pvp zones so far away. So, by this placement: You could circle S2 to PvE level, and then go to your faction hub, and grab your quest reps and such. The most rewarding quests would be inside the faction zone, a circle that would be central in the S2 and allow for some cool combat. Hell, you could put some awesome city ruins for a more lore approach of a city needing to be controled.

I think S2 gets you to level 30? Some quest rewards and xp could be adjusted, but overall, the better idea would be to keep crafting weaponry better than questing stuff, so crafters would be way more valuable.

Of course, this is just an idea. LO has way more urgent issues to solve.

i am agree about all you say about new server ( i am saying this having every weapons/ every equip/ alot of chips/ alot of chars level 55/ alot of game play)
I am agree about lock a certain time ( not two moths of not 6 moths at least) sector 2 as cap, and mix factions ( lets say my all final game play was pvp oriented and from my point of view i see " useless" to have 6 faction choices, faction wars always had 3 main factions as travellers, lightbearers and chotas, the other 3 faction were always not much populated and they were suporting  the others, changing sides at some points of times)
quest rewards is something evry people suggested but nothing was done ( its unfair doing level 20 misione getting rewarded with level 5 weapon for example)

1 hour ago, Eric Cloud said:

It's sad to say but i feel all of this is just a waste of time. Some want a wipe so everyone starts new which will drive away players, maybe not all but enough it will hurt. Many seem to be looking forward to this revamp on a new engine which would require starting from scratch too i guess. Either way this game was NEVER all that popular even though some of you act like it was one of the top games in it's day. Well it wasn't and never will be, FE is one of those games that your average gamer would by chance try if someone recommended it, many would look it up and not waste their time. This game has never in it's life seen populations like many other games have over the years. So i don't see a revamped version of this bringing tons of players rushing to download it. Dream all you want about FE remastered but personally I think it is a waste of time that is going to kill off a somewhat mediocre game that only a certain group of gamers do enjoy. It was a good run while it lasted, but even if i had the desire to start from scratch on a new engine it is hard for me to believe it will be any better. Sorry but I have no faith in them making this game great again on a new engine if they can't even fix it how it is now. Either way I may or may not ride it out to the end on the original game, everyday it just gets more sensible to just uninstall for good and move on. I know some who have already.

You are right about this game never had more than 1k population, but you know when it had a lot population ( lets say  half ( 500 players) it was very fun, atmosphere was far better experience than in any other game i have played.
i put an example about that last i related: You were in a faction, lets say traveler ok? , you go to a pvp map lb controled for get mats and you get killed, then you " used" faction chat, and you see alot of traveler players came to rescue you, making a fight in place. Said this game it self and faction made to everyplayer interact with other players with simple thing of you are in a faction or another faction, thats the magic of faction oriented game.
I exposed traveller case, but i can say you make your char " chota faction", and unknow players just write " chotaaa" in faction chats, this makes people feel happy and people start to interect between them, making game a lot of social and fun ( you no need to have friends to enter in game, game itself being faction game will get you that friends socializing)
Said this, game no need someone recommended you to play or not, game atmosphere ( when game was more faction based) will get you in family faction.
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1 hour ago, Aroa Croft said:

Snip..

About suits covering more than 1 slot you talking about i not see any problems, because all of them had negative stats making them similar or equal to another ones were covering 1 slot.

Snap..

Ohh, didn't fit YOUR view did it? for many crafters it does and did, and no from a questers view of things I will not skip anything if I was to do the leveling again... But hey it's all about YOU and your vision, just remember that the MMO community has changed a lot in the last 5-10 years. The reason it worked pre-gore was just one thing, not the gear or anything, it was the players and the population. In fact GORE is now completely irrelevant, so are all the slots on the char page for gear......

But goodbye, will be my last post here for a looong while.

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2 hours ago, Aroa Croft said:

 

i am agree about all you say about new server ( i am saying this having every weapons/ every equip/ alot of chips/ alot of chars level 55/ alot of game play)
I am agree about lock a certain time ( not two moths of not 6 moths at least) sector 2 as cap, and mix factions ( lets say my all final game play was pvp oriented and from my point of view i see " useless" to have 6 faction choices, faction wars always had 3 main factions as travellers, lightbearers and chotas, the other 3 faction were always not much populated and they were suporting  the others, changing sides 

tenor.gif

Did you just say that travelers, chotas and lightbears are the only populated factions in the game?(Non of the factions are populated right now, they all dead ASF! they were all equally populated at some point before. Stop spreading utter bullshoot in the forums... I know that you like to make propaganda for 3 these factions, cuz allof your toons are in them.
  Edited by Viscera
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5 hours ago, Viscera said:
tenor.gif

Did you just say that travelers, chotas and lightbears are the only populated factions in the game?(Non of the factions are populated right now, they all dead ASF! they were all equally populated at some point before. Stop spreading utter bullshoot in the forums... I know that you like to make propaganda for 3 these factions, cuz allof your toons are in them.
 

I don't know about faction history in the game ( except that Enfos are widly hated ), but i know that 3-faction war is easier to balance than 2-faction or 4+. So, what i said is more in the lines of making everything a bit easier on the devs and on pop to avoid one faction having too much power. I can't speak for Aroa, but believe me, i don't agree with a lot of what she says.

But i want to leave a small note here: Whatever you people trying to say that a fresh server would be more damaging and that "FE cannot be compared to other games" is a REALLY weak argument. FE is a MMO. You want to draw different lines but no matter, it still has a LOT of stuff that is just familiar to those who play. A fresh server, when well marketed, WILL attract new players. I don't think it should be done now, but it should be done somewhere down the road when the devs actually get the game functional. What you CAN'T do, is pretend that bandaid-fixing the game for years straight is a good idea. It isn't.

It's nice that you guys feel like veterans and want to support the game, but honestly, drop the throne. We all want FE to thrive, and for that, we need something new, that attract pop. There's nothing wrong with a fresh server if you get your convenience transfered. If any of you kept tabs on fresh servers on WoW pservers, you would know how huge a fresh server is.

What i don't want is LO foregoing quality in name of pop, we had years for G1 doing this crap already. But i also won't pretend that FE in it's actual state is in any way, shape or form, thriving. You guys are not enough.

What FE has right now, is not enough.

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13 minutes ago, CorbinBarret said:

I don't know about faction history in the game ( except that Enfos are widly hated ), but i know that 3-faction war is easier to balance than 2-faction or 4+. So, what i said is more in the lines of making everything a bit easier on the devs and on pop to avoid one faction having too much power. I can't speak for Aroa, but believe me, i don't agree with a lot of what she says.

But i want to leave a small note here: Whatever you people trying to say that a fresh server would be more damaging and that "FE cannot be compared to other games" is a REALLY weak argument. FE is a MMO. You want to draw different lines but no matter, it still has a LOT of stuff that is just familiar to those who play. A fresh server, when well marketed, WILL attract new players. I don't think it should be done now, but it should be done somewhere down the road when the devs actually get the game functional. What you CAN'T do, is pretend that bandaid-fixing the game for years straight is a good idea. It isn't.

It's nice that you guys feel like veterans and want to support the game, but honestly, drop the throne. We all want FE to thrive, and for that, we need something new, that attract pop. There's nothing wrong with a fresh server if you get your convenience transfered. If any of you kept tabs on fresh servers on WoW pservers, you would know how huge a fresh server is.

What i don't want is LO foregoing quality in name of pop, we had years for G1 doing this crap already. But i also won't pretend that FE in it's actual state is in any way, shape or form, thriving. You guys are not enough.

What FE has right now, is not enough.
it doesn't matter if it is 3- factions or 6 It depends on the amount of players ingame(Why you care about faction  power if you don't PvP?) , also some of the players in FE want the faction system like how it is right now. Those factions are all unique in their own way. anyways, i have no issue with a new fresh start, but i dont want LO to remove unnecessary things in FE and just keep it how it was before.
they better should focus on important things where people always were asking to change.(No need to explain, cuz ya know)

So, If you dont know about the faction history in this game, then what in the world do you claim that enforcers are widely hated faction.. Smh. It's obviously you, that is hating on them, maybe some enfos might have bullied you in the past, Things like that can happen. Ugh..Rippingcones...Ugh  poor dude has been a victim by crafter travs and techs recently. xD

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19 hours ago, CorbinBarret said:

As a casual FE player, who left for a while but just want a update to get back, here's what i would do:

- New server. I'm sorry for the veterans who stuck for the 9 years on the same server, but FE needs a fresh start with it's new stuff. Word of mouth does wonders, and a fresh start allows people to compete on the same foot. The world thrives. You have 9 years of a game plagued by duping, hacking, etc etc. Do not attempt to make this game economy seem less broken. It isn't, and honestly, LO should NOT keep it in Limbo just because you want to sit on a throne or whatever. Keep the old server, allow the cosmetic stuff to be transfered, you earned that right, and some of the convenience, but keep everything advantageous OUT of the new server.

"You reign over nothing."

- I would lock leveling for like one, or two months into Sector 2. Mix the 6 factions into 3 ( better balancing pvp-wise. Chota+Vista ( Nature-savagery faction ), Tech+Traveler ( Amoral scientists and enterpreneurs ) and Lightbringer+Enfos ( Good set of morals, kinda overreacting on the whole establishment thing. ). Make the faction zone more central and allow pvp INSIDE the faction zone. Which means you would end up pvp'ing for some resources that other factiosn compete. Don't keep all the pvp zones so far away. So, by this placement: You could circle S2 to PvE level, and then go to your faction hub, and grab your quest reps and such. The most rewarding quests would be inside the faction zone, a circle that would be central in the S2 and allow for some cool combat. Hell, you could put some awesome city ruins for a more lore approach of a city needing to be controled.

I think S2 gets you to level 30? Some quest rewards and xp could be adjusted, but overall, the better idea would be to keep crafting weaponry better than questing stuff, so crafters would be way more valuable.

Of course, this is just an idea. LO has way more urgent issues to solve.

Ehh what advantages? The only 'advantages' is 3rd party cheating. This isn't a gacha game or asian f2p game where you either swipe or no-life to compete(even no-lifing falling behind super hard). This is a game where it takes a week of moderate playing to cap a character in everything outside crafting. Even crafting though isn't a concern as you can likely find someone who maxed it and buy your 3/4 consumes you need and to max your final gear.


Ehh people typically don't like combining factions in general, but the bigger issue here is that factions have little to any meaning(especially since shoulder factions are a 'lel wtv you want' and they have nothing really useful). Also pvp zone would have have pvers raging.

Crafted stuff has always been better than quest stuff...to an obscene degree.

 
1 hour ago, CorbinBarret said:

I don't know about faction history in the game ( except that Enfos are widly hated ), but i know that 3-faction war is easier to balance than 2-faction or 4+. So, what i said is more in the lines of making everything a bit easier on the devs and on pop to avoid one faction having too much power. I can't speak for Aroa, but believe me, i don't agree with a lot of what she says.

But i want to leave a small note here: Whatever you people trying to say that a fresh server would be more damaging and that "FE cannot be compared to other games" is a REALLY weak argument. FE is a MMO. You want to draw different lines but no matter, it still has a LOT of stuff that is just familiar to those who play. A fresh server, when well marketed, WILL attract new players. I don't think it should be done now, but it should be done somewhere down the road when the devs actually get the game functional. What you CAN'T do, is pretend that bandaid-fixing the game for years straight is a good idea. It isn't.

It's nice that you guys feel like veterans and want to support the game, but honestly, drop the throne. We all want FE to thrive, and for that, we need something new, that attract pop. There's nothing wrong with a fresh server if you get your convenience transfered. If any of you kept tabs on fresh servers on WoW pservers, you would know how huge a fresh server is.

What i don't want is LO foregoing quality in name of pop, we had years for G1 doing this crap already. But i also won't pretend that FE in it's actual state is in any way, shape or form, thriving. You guys are not enough.

What FE has right now, is not enough.
Yes but the general idea of factions within the game(even for pvp) has always been that alliances can change and aren't hard set. Factions are more of a suggestion than a hard system. This isn't balancing 6 wow factions that are hardlocked and requires balance to make it all equal. This is a game where you can have 3/4 factions gang up on the other 2for short term gains and then fracture into a 2v1v1 and still later switch up depending on clan interactions. The issue with factions isn't even really the number it's that it has no real supporting system behind it so they are shallow and are more akin to when you choose a zodiac sign or some other inane shit for character history.

Ehh a fresh start would have some more potential to bring in new people due to the appearance of more people, but that would be all. The only things people would lose are cosmetic items removed from the game and stacks of mats due to either duping or just as likely the game being stuck at level cap 55 for the last 6 years. Although what people wouldn't want to do again is some of the crafting grind really. FE in general would need marketing...hell browser games in 2018 get better marketing than fe ever got. No one is acting like band-aid fixing a game is good, what they don't want is a new server start WITHOUT the required changes(and losing nostalgic things). They don't want LO to upgrade the graphics slightly and go 'all done now reset'.


@Viscera

Factions were rarely evenly populated, but in terms of pvp if groups became far too dominant alliances between other clans would be formed to deal with said clan for short terms. Or in those cases(typically omni clans) it was 'ally against omni and fight when they aren't around'.

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8 hours ago, Viscera said:
tenor.gif

Did you just say that travelers, chotas and lightbears are the only populated factions in the game?(Non of the factions are populated right now, they all dead ASF! they were all equally populated at some point before. Stop spreading utter bullshoot in the forums... I know that you like to make propaganda for 3 these factions, cuz allof your toons are in them.
 

a mistake! i missed that super enfo faction who dominated s2 map all years and gave a lot of game play.
I still remember shp and all pro in that time teaming together going to that the dump place and
lose all fights because it was overpopulated by enfos,  it was very fun i cant deny it.
4 factions i see better now  hehe, sorry missing that!!

1 hour ago, MICFILLER said:
Ehh what advantages? The only 'advantages' is 3rd party cheating. This isn't a gacha game or asian f2p game where you either swipe or no-life to compete(even no-lifing falling behind super hard). This is a game where it takes a week of moderate playing to cap a character in everything outside crafting. Even crafting though isn't a concern as you can likely find someone who maxed it and buy your 3/4 consumes you need and to max your final gear.


Ehh people typically don't like combining factions in general, but the bigger issue here is that factions have little to any meaning(especially since shoulder factions are a 'lel wtv you want' and they have nothing really useful). Also pvp zone would have have pvers raging.

Crafted stuff has always been better than quest stuff...to an obscene degree.

  Yes but the general idea of factions within the game(even for pvp) has always been that alliances can change and aren't hard set. Factions are more of a suggestion than a hard system. This isn't balancing 6 wow factions that are hardlocked and requires balance to make it all equal. This is a game where you can have 3/4 factions gang up on the other 2for short term gains and then fracture into a 2v1v1 and still later switch up depending on clan interactions. The issue with factions isn't even really the number it's that it has no real supporting system behind it so they are shallow and are more akin to when you choose a zodiac sign or some other inane shit for character history.

Ehh a fresh start would have some more potential to bring in new people due to the appearance of more people, but that would be all. The only things people would lose are cosmetic items removed from the game and stacks of mats due to either duping or just as likely the game being stuck at level cap 55 for the last 6 years. Although what people wouldn't want to do again is some of the crafting grind really. FE in general would need marketing...hell browser games in 2018 get better marketing than fe ever got. No one is acting like band-aid fixing a game is good, what they don't want is a new server start WITHOUT the required changes(and losing nostalgic things). They don't want LO to upgrade the graphics slightly and go 'all done now reset'.


@Viscera

Factions were rarely evenly populated, but in terms of pvp if groups became far too dominant alliances between other clans would be formed to deal with said clan for short terms. Or in those cases(typically omni clans) it was 'ally against omni and fight when they aren't around'.
Mc filler, i see by you writings about you have not played pvp in 2011- 2012 for example.
I can say to you about in that times " faction matters" and i remember existed a word named " KOS" for omni players.
I can link some videos, there is a lotof videos in diferent factions, you just need see date (  they were pre gores or just in gores patch videos), in that times faction was the most important thing,

see this video for example :
this video is showing eternal war trav vs lb, i can say to you, if some player start to teaming one fight with another faction was not chosen, then that player will be KOS, and  i am sure traveler chat announce who is traitor and everyone follows that kos,
 I dunno if viscera is old enought to know this, but i am sure viscera is pvper player and know what means words loyalty or traitor in a faction and kos word againts that player.

btw i am agree with you about just a " restart" is not enought to save game, it need a UPGRADE ( new maps/new things) or a RETURNING to a good fun point ( pre gores i suggested)
Reasons i defend a returning point is because is CHEAP and POSIBLE, and we all know making new maps/new things, require time and money from company.

The end we all want is a populated and fun game,  i want to believe all forum want this.
I think nobody can debate to me about actual state of game is  NOT populated and fun, can someone?
  Edited by Aroa Croft
edited because bad writed some words

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From all i have read anyways, it mainly sound like this new server could end up being more a of a pvp playground. Removing sectors, guns and anything else just seems like a very bad and very dumb idea. The game is stagnant and boring because nothing new has been added for many years. Starting over with less stuff isn't going to make this game any better, all it will be is mainly pvpers logging in to zerg each other and talk smack to one another. Pve players are already bored after getting to 55, and most have no desire to pvp. Removing sectors and shrinking the game down to sector 2 is just some of the dumbest crap i have heard of anything. REMOVING KILLS GAMES. I just don't see anything good becoming of this other than turning this into a lame pvp playground of sh!theads running around until they are bored. Back when i started playing this game one of the main factors for me enjoying it was the sheer size of the map. Reducing the map, making more pvp zones isn't going to make this game great again. Sure the pvp crowd will love it especially if they get a better running game without so much lag, but as far as pve players this does absolutely nothing to make them desire to run through from scratch again. But who cares anyways, the majority of the FE population is all pvp anyways right? (sarcasm intended) Would make more sense if the existing game could be fixed and NEW content added, not the same ole crap with fancy eye candy and less map. btw most pvp players from what i have seen over the years get bored pretty damn fast.

Edited by Eric Cloud
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On 9/29/2018 at 2:18 AM, Eric Cloud said:

From all i have read anyways, it mainly sound like this new server could end up being more a of a pvp playground. Removing sectors, guns and anything else just seems like a very bad and very dumb idea. The game is stagnant and boring because nothing new has been added for many years. Starting over with less stuff isn't going to make this game any better, all it will be is mainly pvpers logging in to zerg each other and talk smack to one another. Pve players are already bored after getting to 55, and most have no desire to pvp. Removing sectors and shrinking the game down to sector 2 is just some of the dumbest crap i have heard of anything. REMOVING KILLS GAMES. I just don't see anything good becoming of this other than turning this into a lame pvp playground of sh!theads running around until they are bored. Back when i started playing this game one of the main factors for me enjoying it was the sheer size of the map. Reducing the map, making more pvp zones isn't going to make this game great again. Sure the pvp crowd will love it especially if they get a better running game without so much lag, but as far as pve players this does absolutely nothing to make them desire to run through from scratch again. But who cares anyways, the majority of the FE population is all pvp anyways right? (sarcasm intended) Would make more sense if the existing game could be fixed and NEW content added, not the same ole crap with fancy eye candy and less map. btw most pvp players from what i have seen over the years get bored pretty damn fast.

- Nobody is suggesting a " pvp playground" at writing i am watching.
- True is pve players gt bored when reach level 55 , because after this pve players choices are do " max crafting all recipes and find all", " find unique items and make money in game" or " complete all misions in game" ( this last become dificult because each faction have exclusive missions and it  need pvp map being faction you are for start missions)
- A lot pve players become pvp active players after reach level 55, sincerely, in my case i played a lot of years wow and i never had any pvp experience, but i started here doing pvp because existed a clan ( Game over clan) and some players who teached me " how to do pvp" and i found it fun ( i remember i played pvp and bloodsports just for die a lot of times and it was fun, but finallity was learn and have happy times.......... writing this i remember a friend named " Darkorina" who was telling me " dont stay quiet! move to that side to that other side and shoot ( in start i found it superdificult!!)  )
- Said this, nobody was or is forced to do pvp in game.
- My suggestion was "make reset to a certain point we all know faction worked ( pre gores point) and just launch a pair or somemore maps in start ( i think s-1, s2 and s3 maps are enought for all players who start play game have fun), Pve population at this point can have " 3 full maps good done in terms of mission/monsters and pvp population can have " 1 or 2 maps with some pvp areas" and posibility of bloodsports.

. This idea not need kill actual server, just launch second server " new one" and watch whats happens, so everybody can be happy ( mutare and other who no want new server can stay in old one and people who want start again experience from fresh working state where faction matters. There is no need of discussion,

- Very important thing from my point of view is know about doing a reset at actual state is bad idea, very very bad, because map is too huge and actual state faction dont matters at all. 2 starting maps or 3 as much is more enought to keep happy population 1 year if not a litle more.

edit: i am first who thinks about game must be more pve  and faction oriented ( point i think is " no return point" is closer to gore patch, being gore patch where all started to fail) Edited by Aroa Croft
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What the game needs, in order of importance:

1. Better server + net coding. A laggy MMO is a dead MMO. *coughDefiancecough* The server needs to be reliable with proper coding. I have no problem with new server and everything, it's 2018.  Can't keep using outdated hardware/software if one wants to remain relevant.

2. The game needs to be rewarding to be fun.  The reason the game always struggled to retain new players pre-Gore is that most leave the game in sector 2-3. They never make it beyond that to reach lvl55 (unless they skip 90% of the content and power-level to lvl55, which I personally find a guaranteed quick way to get bored of any game). People leave that early because in those sectors it becomes very clear how awful the effort : reward ratio is. Why bother doing anything if you get peanuts in return for an arduous  30min Master boss fight?  G1 mentioned at least 3 times they would fix the reward table, welp that never happened. I've personally seen people ragequit the game after getting terrible rewards from quests for the umpteenth time. Multiplying the quests' chip reward by 10 would've go a loooong way in making quests worthwhile. Also, that nonsense of item rewards 10 levels lower than the quest level itself... seriously what is wrong with the person who thought that was a good thing?

3. The character stat building system is..... not good.  It never really was.  The game claims to champion freedom of choice, you can define yourself. (one of the game's main selling point that attracts new people).  But the character system is so inflexible and convoluted you pretty much always had to build specific meta builds. It should've just chosen the generic class system with fixed skill tree like any generic MMO instead. People coming in here with an idea in mind how to build their character end up realizing later they can't do it due to the extreme limitations and don't want to make a gimp build, So follow the meta or go away.  Unsurprisingly, many choose the latter.

4. Capitalize on the fact that this game is huge. 1000+ square kilometers....yet more than half of it goes to waste. There is so much enormous empty spaces everywhere. They're filled with generic enemies and common nodes. There is no reason to ever enter these vast wastelands.  Would've helped if at random some rare resources (or enemies that drop these resources) would spawn in these places, this would promote exploring. But noooooooo, let's put all the rare stuff inside pvp zones.  That oughta show those pve players how much we appreciate them! G1 did an amazing job driving the PVE player base away with terrible decisions after terrible decisions. GORE, broken Outpost and Dome instantly killed off 4 pve clans I was in. They made exploration and crafting on such a huge area a zero-purpose goal. Veteran players were actively telling new players to just go to power-level locations to reach lvl55 as quickly as possible and then grind their sanity away in Citadel/Dome for tokens.  Tokens!!!

5. Make AI combat worthwhile.  Combat against npc is just a matter of outlasting them while standing still.  There is no strategy involved at all.   Would be nice if their accuracy would lower when you move around a lot. Cause right now everything just aimbots you, why bother moving? Because of this, combat can be done with one hand. And this lacking combat system gets mentioned a lot in reviews as a biiiiig negative.

6. All recipes need to be relevant.  The amount of recipes in this game is amazing.  Too bad that for its majority it's all a giant waste of time and space. We have no reason to craft most of this stuff when it's pretty obvious what the best thing of each category is. 

7. Crafting queue needs to be increased.  This whole 1 queue for f2p and 3 queues for freemium is brutal.  Other f2p games offer more for less. New players need to feel invited to spend money, not driven away right from the beginning as a punishment for not spending cash. The target audience of 2018 is not the same as 10 years ago.  Still using the rules from way back then will never make you competitive.
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100.  Re-skin everything to make them look more shiny and modern.  Yeah, that won't help whatsoever until the above is addressed first.


Realistically speaking, can all the above be done cheaper than just making a new game from scratch? As it stands, FE is so broken and neglected with rushed/unfinished poorly planned content..... how do/can you fix that without throwing the baby away with the bathwater?

 

6 hours ago, Aroa Croft said:
- True is pve players gt bored when reach level 55 , because after this pve players choices are do " max crafting all recipes and find all", " find unique items and make money in game" or " complete all misions in game"

That is THE point of playing PVE. One does not power-level and THEN go do those things.   You do all those things and you automatically level up in the meantime. The road to lvl 55 needs to be fun and engaging, reaching endlevel is not the one and only reason people play MMOs.  To many, the journey matters more than the goal. If the journey is awful, who will care about the goal? They just leave for other games instead.
 
6 hours ago, Aroa Croft said:
- A lot pve players become pvp active players after reach level 55, 

"A lot".  I'm not buying that at all.  When somebody says "I am a PVE player", that means they do not and never will be interested in fighting other players. They will go out of their way to avoid PVP.  a pve player will never be a pvp player.  A pvp player can like both pvp and pve however. When the game clearly became anti-pve after GORE, the pve player base left in a massive exodus. There was nothing left for them to do and the little they had became irrelevant due to power creep and depressingly boring token-grinding content.
 
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On 9/14/2018 at 11:29 AM, Kinksta said:

i never said confirmed, read i just spoke to matt about it he said we could probably transfer 55s
Just gonna quote this...

Matt only stated, and confirmed in the unofficial discord that they will transfer G1C transactions and "rare event" items at best.

Transferring a 55 when they're going to be releasing sectors as if it's a relaunch would be quite moronic anyways. Not to mention the fact you'll have 0 gear, materials, or anything... let alone any possible PVP in S1 would be pointless as new players starting up wouldn't be able to reach 55.

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