RFP-9 Balancing

[Rikard86 32]

Just throwing this out from the original thread I posted it in so that it doesn't get buried.

Right now the RFP is a pocket OBIR that is reliable from 5 up to 40m and still deals consistent damage further than that, thanks to the original 399 damage per burst - past 65m it hits for around 130 damage, which paired with the spot-on accuracy makes it a pretty hard weapon to outrange.
My suggestion is simple: instead of acting on range or accuracy - which might impact the weapon too much and throw it out of its niche - nerf the damage so that it's a 9 bullet kill, with very little overkill (going from 133 per bullet to 112, meaning a 336 damage burst).
TTK in its range will take a very negligible hit (going to 1.1s from 1.05s), but the lowered damage paired with the dropoff will make sure it requires additional bursts as soon as you shoot past its intented 40m range, reducing its potential as a mid-long range support and giving targets more time to fight back/look for cover.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Rikard86

[Nitronik 348]

I would honestly argue most secondary weapons shouldn't deal full damage 40m out. The RFP is gaining a lot of traction with the more tryhard crowd and it's really annoying to fight against

[vsb 6131]

still like this idea

 

[Rikard86 32]

38 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

I would honestly argue most secondary weapons shouldn't deal full damage 40m out. The RFP is gaining a lot of traction with the more tryhard crowd and it's really annoying to fight against

RFP's point is that for being slightly harder to use up close than most pistols (semiauto, long time between bursts, long TTK) you get a better mid range alternative, so in this case the 40m range makes sense. The problem is that it bleeds too easily into higher ranges thanks to the high per burst damage, not to mention that it makes it a really strong finisher in close range as you just need to shove it into the opponent's mouth for an instant 400 damage spike.
Nerfing damage would fix both of those issues. Edited September 2, 2018 by Rikard86

[Virgil 55]

15 hours ago, Rikard86 said:

RFP's point is that for being slightly harder to use up close than most pistols (semiauto, long time between bursts, long TTK) you get a better mid range alternative, so in this case the 40m range makes sense. The problem is that it bleeds too easily into higher ranges thanks to the high per burst damage, not to mention that it makes it a really strong finisher in close range as you just need to shove it into the opponent's mouth for an instant 400 damage spike.
Nerfing damage would fix both of those issues.

only pistols worth using = fbw/rfp and its fang variant

neither are remotely difficult to use, rfp just has slightly higher ttk, and can slam out assault rifels within certain ranges, not to mention it has the the same benefit of shotguns, and things like the obir, where you can quickly peek for .0001 seconds and do full damage with no chance for the enemy to react, much less hit you.

[Rikard86 32]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

only pistols worth using = fbw/rfp and its fang variant

neither are remotely difficult to use, rfp just has slightly higher ttk, and can slam out assault rifels within certain ranges, not to mention it has the the same benefit of shotguns, and things like the obir, where you can quickly peek for .0001 seconds and do full damage with no chance for the enemy to react, much less hit you.

miss once with the RFP and you wait for the refire timer, that's an extra .5s the opponent has to take you down. Miss once with the FBW, you have another round in the chamber. That's what I meant by slightly harder - up close with no cover the FBW wins hands down only because it's easier to hit your opponent with.

RFP rewards the use of cover, and that's another reason why it needs a damage nerf, because - again - almost 400 damage on a pistol burst is insane, you just need to tag them a couple times with your rifle while they're rushing you for an instant facemelt once they get up close.

[CookiePuss 5356]

I would just nerf the hipfire accuracy and leave the rest.
Make the RFP no more versatile than the ACT44 or RSA.

[Rikard86 32]

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I would just nerf the hipfire accuracy and leave the rest.
Make the RFP no more versatile than the ACT44 or RSA.

Yeah... except that the problem with the RFP9 is not that it's too good in mid-close, but that it shits all over ACT44 and RSA up to 50m (better equip and reload time, easier bloom and recoil, faster TTK). This makes the ACT44 useless (not that it is that great of a gun, it's pretty terrible IMO) and gives the RSA too much of a fierce rival.
Making it marksmanship only wouldn't change that, even if it's given N-TEC levels of bloom when moving.

  Edited September 9, 2018 by Rikard86

[CookiePuss 5356]

35 minutes ago, Rikard86 said:

Yeah... except that the problem with the RFP9 is not that it's too good in mid-close, but that it shits all over ACT44 and RSA up to 50m (better equip and reload time, easier bloom and recoil, faster TTK). This makes the ACT44 useless (not that it is that great of a gun, it's pretty terrible IMO) and gives the RSA too much of a fierce rival.
Making it marksmanship only wouldn't change that, even if it's given N-TEC levels of bloom when moving.

 

Except the act and rsa damage dropoff doesnt start til 70m vs the rfp at 40m. (not 50m) 

So while the rfp "shits all over them" up to 40m, they "shit all over" the rfp after that. 

In my opinion the thing that makes the rfp OP isnt its range, but rather its viability in cqc. IMO it just shouldnt be that versatile. 

[Rikard86 32]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Except the act and rsa damage dropoff doesnt start til 70m vs the rfp at 40m. (not 50m) 

So while the rfp "shits all over them" up to 40m, they "shit all over" the rfp after that. 

In my opinion the thing that makes the rfp OP isnt its range, but rather its viability in cqc. IMO it just shouldnt be that versatile. 

RFP's dropoff starts at 40m, but the overkill and the high damage per burst make it really damaging even past that range. It stops being dangerous (more than 4 full bursts - 12 bullets) around 50m, with the Fang going well past that.

ACT44 and RSA can't compare - the ACT is pretty much blown out of the water at what it's supposed to be its optimal range (it's too inaccurate for longer ranges, even the HS3 version, so the 70m dropoff doesn't mean squat), and while the RSA might have the range advantage it does not have the TTK and fire rate advantage - RFP can fit almost 5 full bursts in the time RSA needs to fire 3 bullets, enough to cover 2/3 of RSA's range.
Add to the fact that in APB it's easier to close a gap than to keep your distance and you know where I'm going with this. Edited September 9, 2018 by Rikard86

[CookiePuss 5356]

2 hours ago, Rikard86 said:

RFP's dropoff starts at 40m, but the overkill and the high damage per burst make it really damaging even past that range. It stops being dangerous (more than 4 full bursts - 12 bullets) around 50m, with the Fang going well past that.

ACT44 and RSA can't compare - the ACT is pretty much blown out of the water at what it's supposed to be its optimal range (it's too inaccurate for longer ranges, even the HS3 version, so the 70m dropoff doesn't mean squat), and while the RSA might have the range advantage it does not have the TTK and fire rate advantage - RFP can fit almost 5 full bursts in the time RSA needs to fire 3 bullets, enough to cover 2/3 of RSA's range.
Add to the fact that in APB it's easier to close a gap than to keep your distance and you know where I'm going with this.

I do.
But as an owner of the Talon, the Fang, (and of course having access the the standard RFP), the ACT44 GM, and the Hunter, I find myself using the 70m guns far more often. Perhaps its just personal preference, perhaps its because I use my secondary to compliment my primary ie: I would only use any of these guns with SMGs or Shotguns, using the .45 AP or FBW for everything else... but I still find the only thing "OP" about the RFP is its cqc viability. I also find the term "Pocket Obir" to be far too hyperbolic as again, the only place the RFP outshines the Obir is in cqc due to its ridiculous hipfire accuracy. So for me nerfing hipfire would be enough to balance the weapon.

I do appreciate your points though, and of course my points are only opinion.

Edit: I do find the RoF nerf to the Fang a good compromise for the extra range as well. Edited September 10, 2018 by CookiePuss

[vsb 6131]

50 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

I also find the term "Pocket Obir" to be far too hyperbolic as again, the only place the RFP outshines the Obir is in cqc due to its ridiculous hipfire accuracy. So for me nerfing hipfire would be enough to balance the weapon.

pocket obir likely comes from the fact that the default rfp can be played exactly like an obir and outperform it up to 40m

 

[BlatMan 656]

Reducing the RFP's sprint capabilities would put it in it's own niche. Currently it's just better than the FBW in most situations. It's like the OSCAR of the secondaries.

[ZoriaDunne 327]

The dislikes are from RFP users who want to keep using this broken weapon.

[Nitronik 348]

It should get either a range or damage nerf, I don't see why it should stay as-is . All the tryhards are either using the .45 (which at least has some inherent downsides) or this