Joker Mystery Box - Considered gambling in Belgium

[Hexerin 1109]

Here's hoping other nations follow suit, and end this cancer for good.

[Lucidy 21]

Never been a fan of gambling in general.

4 years ago I bought two keys on csgo, so $5 USD then opened two crates, didn't get jack. Still have not gambled again to this day. 

FeelsGoodMan

[vsb 6131]

as someone who has nothing left to buy on armas i have zero problems with joker boxes, especially in games recommended for 18 and up
its no different from buying scratch off tickets at a gas station imo

[Clandestine 390]

That's not exactly the great thing. If loot boxes will disappear then the prices of other items will increase.

[TheJellyGoo 343]

I don't like gambling but I don't mind as long as the items are marketable and not luck exclusive.
The revenue they make is good for the games so I'm happy with letting others try their luck on them.

[Davess 19]

21 minutes ago, Clandestine said:

That's not exactly the great thing. If loot boxes will disappear then the prices of other items will increase.

Except why would other items get more expensive? Legendaries would just have to be put in as obtainable in a different way; gambling is a serious issue.

[Clandestine 390]

31 minutes ago, Davess said:

53 minutes ago, Clandestine said:

That's not exactly the great thing. If loot boxes will disappear then the prices of other items will increase.

Except why would other items get more expensive? Legendaries would just have to be put in as obtainable in a different way; gambling is a serious issue.

Because of whales. There are people who can spend 200$ each month on loot boxes and companies seeing lack of this revenue might increase prices of other items.

[Kevkof 806]

Well, as a Belgian and someone who likes to collect legendaries I would personally hate it if they follow this example 

[Rikard86 32]

APB depends a lot on the Loot boxes payment model, since it's a sure way to cover costs and make a profit when your playerbase is small but willing to spend money, and the reason why the current game balance does not heavily favor cash shop items. Most of the other models (cosmetic only, straight up sales) work only when your playerbase is much bigger.

The game would not shut down overnight if JMBs were to be removed, of course, but I'm worried about what kind of power creep could seep info the game to force players to spend money costantly.
Played a few other games where the meta shifted every few months into more powerful equipment to force people to throw money at the game or become useless, let me tell you it was not fun.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Rikard86

[Genobee 142]

There seems to be an innate fear of what would happen if joker boxes vanished. It's not like those things being removed would HAVE to be filled by an even worse monetization scheme.

Plenty of games exist that sustain themselves perfectly fine off of less egregious models than APB. Yes there are worse, but my point is there are more fair ones that seem to be doing just fine. Of course it depends on what type of market and all that the product is aimed at or for. Let alone how the title is structured to begin with. Amongst a whole myriad of other variables.. point is that it can work if the right criteria is met.

Now maybe I'm crazy, but a game with such an emphasis on customization seems ripe for cosmetic item sales (or at least could have been if things didn't go down the path they did). I know in the past those were thrown aside for quick easy weapon sales. Those were what presumably made the $$$. Yet they were also what was almost solely worked on. Self-fulfilling prophecy and all that. Little effort was made to branch out into other aspects and I feel like that was a mistake. 

They chose the common dirt road that's riddled with potholes and barely navigable. Something that had always worked just fine in the past, but had begun to show it's age even when it was first put to use for APB. Dangling content that people can't have without money but influences gameplay is a quick way to make someone bail. People like to be able to experience a game to the fullest. Not be gated off at every turn. Which is how the game feels now. 

..okay this is turning into a massive post. Going to cut it short right here. It's late as all hell and I'm too tired to care beyond this point. APB's monetization since it went F2P back in 2011 was pretty bad even for the time. The joker boxes and all that only made it worse. Those choices helped scare off a lot of people and put most of the financial burden on the ones left. Forcing more boxes to be made regularly. I gotta wonder if there isn't a way to turn that mess around long-term. I just don't see it lasting in the current market as-is. At least not faring anywhere near as well as it could that is. 

I need sleep.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Genobee

[NotZombieBiscuit 3145]

Imagine actually wasting money on JMBs. 

[mynd 120]

9 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

I don't like gambling but I don't mind as long as the items are marketable and not luck exclusive.
The revenue they make is good for the games so I'm happy with letting others try their luck on them.

They are luck exclusive.  If no one ever opened a JMB, then there'd be virtually no Legendaries in the game, besides the rare moments they were handed out by staff.

10 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

as someone who has nothing left to buy on armas i have zero problems with joker boxes, especially in games recommended for 18 and up
its no different from buying scratch off tickets at a gas station imo

Except that lottery tickets have TANGIBLE rewards.  Paying money for digital items that have no real world value is definitely MUCH WORSE.  Also with lottery tickets, you know the odds.

[vsb 6131]

1 minute ago, mynd said:

Except that lottery tickets have TANGIBLE rewards.  Paying money for digital items that have no real world value is definitely MUCH WORSE.  Also with lottery tickets, you know the odds.

idk whether having no real world value makes it worse tbh, its not like you're unaware of what you're gambling for - if you want it you want it

i would be fine with official joker box odds being published tho

[wibsey 91]

I'm sure I've seen this thread before... 

[Kanashimi 39]

We need to see the percentage of chance to score the legendary, not the rentals or the 365 day rental for cars, but for the weapon. inb4, it's a false percentage.

[TheJellyGoo 343]

1 hour ago, mynd said:

They are luck exclusive.  If no one ever opened a JMB, then there'd be virtually no Legendaries in the game, besides the rare moments they were handed out by staff. 
[...]

Yes, and no. Theoretically you're correct but we both know that the way the market works it's not a feasible logic.
Also clearly not the point... what is important is the mere possibility existing.

[Zolerox 564]

so from 99g1c boxes to direct purchase 2000 g1c gun's.

They technically only need to stop Belgium from buying boxes (if needed)

I see this "war on loot boxes" taking years before the Countries that count follow suit 

[Alinea 7]

game is 18+

[Hexerin 1109]

7 minutes ago, Alinea said:

game is 18+

Which is underage for gambling in the US, in the few locations that gambling is even legal at all. As the game's Jericho servers are hosted in a location where gambling is illegal in the US, JMBs would become illegal to sell to Jericho players if the loophole in gambling law were ever fixed.

I'm not familiar with EU law, so can't speak to this on the EU servers.

[Alani 475]

unless belgium attempts to ban every game that has some sort of buyable loot box.

nothing will actually happen

apb does not host servers in belgium

[vsb 6131]

2 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Which is underage for gambling in the US, in the few locations that gambling is even legal at all. As the game's Jericho servers are hosted in a location where gambling is illegal in the US, JMBs would become illegal to sell to Jericho players if the loophole in gambling law were ever fixed.

I'm not familiar with EU law, so can't speak to this on the EU servers.

in ny gambling age is only higher than 18 if a casino has an alcohol license, and even then most allow 18 year olds inside in my experience
lottery tickets are 18 as well

texas does have pretty strict gambling laws tho, but really there’s a variety of ways to change joker boxes (and loot boxes in general) so that they aren’t considered gambling - it’s going to be years before they even get close to be stamped out, if ever

  Edited August 29, 2018 by BXNNXD
added stuff

[LaQuandra 91]

20 hours ago, Davess said:

20 hours ago, Clandestine said:

That's not exactly the great thing. If loot boxes will disappear then the prices of other items will increase.

Except why would other items get more expensive? Legendaries would just have to be put in as obtainable in a different way; gambling is a serious issue.

Drunk Driving and alcoholism are serious issues as well. Do you support banning alcohol? Just because gambling is a serious issue for some does not mean it should be removed for everyone. The countries that are proposing these bans are starting to head down the slippery slope of being a nanny state. Let consumers decide how they want to spend their money, not the government.