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#1
TheTruthHurts

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Its a rather abstract topic but im sure its on everyones minds that frequent apb reloaded at this point

The engine

When do you know that a game engine is "at its limits"?

For instance the source engine got an update that increases map render times, and screws up lighting in your "level" (map)

My friend and I were working on a map together for cs:go and this new update is so bothersom to compile and test parts of our map that we basically gave up, do you suspect apbr suffers from something like this on the current engine?

Is that whats keeping us from getting new contacts, or making substantial changes to the map?

I know for a fact that it exists, so all the downies can sod off, but do you suspect we can look forward to a "content waterfall" after the engine upgrade later this year?
Maybe a new map, or more/larger areas in the existing maps?

No tldr
Thanks for reading

Edited by TheTruthHurts, 11 March 2016 - 09:07 PM.

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#2
OniShema

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Please bump the thread if you can before you read on, this info would help a lot of people considering the well being of the game. A lot of people don't know these things but it's not like I'm exposing anything new. Give a read on my 2nd link in the signature when you're done here, it'll help give another sprout of why the game is in part lacking in both game and community.

APB runs on Unreal 3 Beta. Developed before Gears of War, so before UDK was ever released, so old, beta and not publicly release that the Locust from GoW probably coded APB themselves. APB is supported by tons of plugins that RTW created that makes APB what it is. During the time the engine was not open to the public, majority of developers would code their own assets for the game, such as ai, physics, particle effects and shadows or really APB's whole customization system that works by streaming content. The actual Unreal 3 and 4 come with these basic assets,besides APB's customization system, that are ok to use and wholefully compatible because they as they engine, were created by EPIC.

Reloaded is overhauling APB's "wonderful" RTW Unreal engine to actual Unreal 3.

 

This is almost, entirely file converting. So hence there would be no reason to post progress of the engine in bits because the engine overhaul will be nothing till it's complete as a whole.

It's why they could never fix some bugs, develop more content such as big features or interesting mechanics because of the limitations the engine pushes them away from because trying to do anything on APB's current build, they could break one thing or many. One major thing being the fact APB utilizes your CPU more than it should, mainly because it was made around the time when a GPU was a cool thing to have instead of something to actually needed to play video games on PC.It's just really unoptimized. The engine being fixed isn't just looks being improved, that's going to happen regardless, if people say that's what Reloaded focused on the whole time, I'm sure they didn't, it just came with moving to an engine that actually does what the modern Unreal is capable of performing, you're gonna get performance AND looks, don't worry about either overlooking the other.

The current engine is keeping them from doing anything major like actually expand onwards for the game. It's why they couldn't simply hire more people that know Unreal, because the Unreal that APB runs off of, isn't taught in schools, it was exclusive to what RTW made APB.

It's why when you're shot, your game will frame drop suddenly because the game is more than likely rendering a texture instead of referencing it to be easier on processing. The world has light maps, so that when things like night time come around, those indescructable street lamps, do what they do and stay there because if you move them, there's still going to be light projected on the ground since APB's Unreal doesn't support dynamic shading, another reason we don't have something simple like head light projection, APB has dynamic shading, just not as dynamic as it needs to be in the current tech standard, but think of this as well, why don't we have neon underglow on vehicles. The game has client based physics for anything that isn't a vehicle, grenade or consumable, so it's why when someone t-bags you, you're wondering why they're like 5 meters away from your corpse. Ever wondered why cars in APB are so slow? It's because the physics will literally make the cars wheelie or worse, the game can't actually handle it and crash.

When people fuzzy bunny at Reloaded to fix the game, they already are fixing it, people just need to be patient. When the engine overhaul comes out, don't fuzzy bunny if there are bugs, report them and help the game make progress as an active community member.


As I've argued with DopeFish before when I think he was drunk, I said "The engine overhaul will enable Reloaded to fix the game and make it what it needs to be." and was told I was wrong that "The engine overhaul will not instantly fix the game." Please people, don't think the same, just understand this will take time, I get those of you like me who've been playing for 6 years have either given up or are waiting a long time, but those of you who've joined the APB community in the past 2-3 years, it used to be much worse, this game has come a long way, but the engine limits what Reloaded dreams of doing with APB. I don't want to be rude to those recent 2-3 year players but a lot of you think it's bad now? You better ask a vet, you're lucky if they still give a damn to tell you what Reloaded's actually done instead of a ungrateful esque opinion of why they think Reloaded can't make a game or give you the stale "They'll just make more JMB's" joke.


If there is anything I said is wrong or missing, post it, don't be an patootie about it, this is about informing new players of information that isn't "out there", these kind of things after playing so long, you either catch on or understand after looking farther into the details.

I'm sure the only reason people are angry with Reloaded over APB's progress is just misunderstanding and not knowing a lot of things, that can't be helped. RTW did what they did, Reloaded is just working with what they have and working hard to make the game capable of expanding from what it hasn't been able to do for the past 6 years.

 

Now for the reason APB is going out on focus for consoles is because Reloaded made a contract with DeepSilver to do so, easy enough, funding. So if you want your game to come to life peacefully, wait for the consoles to get theirs and so will we.

Edit: Just one more bit from me before I goto bed, you people that have fuzzy bunnyed about $40 weapons, think of all the time it takes to master weapon levels in APB, let alone across characters, I'm sure there's a good reason the guns are that pricy, you're buying to instantly advance, this is the only Pay 2 Win thing I see in APB, the only thing you can Pay 2 Win is buying something that people can work for when you could just pay money and have those 3 slot weapons in an instant. The element of winning here is instant progression, not a gun that counters everything, there is no gun in APB that does that, I'm talking one hit kills or a gun with no negatives to it at all.


Edited by OniShema, 20 September 2016 - 12:51 AM.

CRIMINAL-MadalenaKurtz      Jericho-NA       Clan:  Joker Rejects

I didn't leave the game, I'm just working.   Best way to explain Reloaded "not doing anything"

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#3
TheTruthHurts

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Thanks for your insight, im really just hoping for faster content after all that was said is done, I have several hundred dollard invested in a "free" game and you could say I fell for the "micro-transaction scam" but in the end I feel I just invested in my entertainment really

Others spend hundreds a year on cable TV, which I dont care about, and spent over a grand on a large screen HDTV, and go and see a couple of movies a month in theatre, I personally dont regret the money I spent, I just want to see it go to a better gaming experience.

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#4
OniShema

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Thanks for your insight, im really just hoping for faster content after all that was said is done, I have several hundred dollard invested in a "free" game and you could say I fell for the "micro-transaction scam" but in the end I feel I just invested in my entertainment really
Others spend hundreds a year on cable TV, which I dont care about, and spent over a grand on a large screen HDTV, and go and see a couple of movies a month in theatre, I personally dont regret the money I spent, I just want to see it go to a better gaming experience.

Don't feel bad, I've spent over 1200 on the game since Closed Beta. I get how you feel. I've filtered my purchases and only 50 of it is on JMBs, people put too much trust into those.

Edited by OniShema, 11 March 2016 - 11:04 PM.

CRIMINAL-MadalenaKurtz      Jericho-NA       Clan:  Joker Rejects

I didn't leave the game, I'm just working.   Best way to explain Reloaded "not doing anything"

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#5
OniShema

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bump, This kind've info needs to be seen more often


CRIMINAL-MadalenaKurtz      Jericho-NA       Clan:  Joker Rejects

I didn't leave the game, I'm just working.   Best way to explain Reloaded "not doing anything"

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#6
Laser

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I feel that an engine is only as limited as the devs coding on it. There are people doing incredible stuff with the bethesda engine from 2010.

 

There are also people who screw everything up, like sub-pro devs trying to fiddle with UE4 or Unity. They are "general engines" that serve an incredibly basic amount of functions. APB should have its own engine, and I hope the devs working on it are properly optimizing the UE for mmo / customization based game play, with a lot of interconnected code, everything in APB relies on something else.


Edited by Laser, 12 March 2016 - 08:28 AM.

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#7
PoshDoll

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-good content-

I appreciate you taking time to write this. Most vets don't take the game and the community seriously either becuase they've become cynical or because they have lost their patience. It's good to see some old timers who still care about informing the community and keeping people around.


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#8
OniShema

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I feel that an engine is only as limited as the devs coding on it. There are people doing incredible stuff with the bethesda engine from 2010.

 

There are also people who screw everything up, like sub-pro devs trying to fiddle with UE4 or Unity. They are "general engines" that serve an incredibly basic amount of functions. APB should have its own engine, and I hope the devs working on it are properly optimizing the UE for mmo / customization based game play, with a lot of interconnected code, everything in APB relies on something else.

The engine they're using is limited to them because they don't have the coders from RTW that created what was made. Bethesda engine from 2010, had support because the engine had already been modded by the community prior, so the source code was pretty much easy to work with. APB's case is that it wasn't made by the minds of EPIC, it was a version of Unreal 3 Beta that's supported by tons of plug ins from RTW and the people who made those plug ins are gone. Reloadeds working on taking those RTW created plugins and making them compatable with actual Unreal.

 

Bethesda engine mods are mods, they're content or mechanics added to the stable base engine that's known by mod coders and developers. Fall Out New Vegas, people made mods on top of a completed game, expanding it. That's not APB's case, APB was not a complete or running a uniform stable engine. This is why I say APB's engine is a unique Unreal, someone builds a base to a wall but some people added to it with their own sort of materials that made the wall bigger but not stable, once those "some people" left, the wall was innifficiantly built, so some other people had to tear down the wall but rebuild it with compatable materials so that generations ahead and build continiously on top of it.

 

People have been coding on Bethesda engine for years.

 

People have not be coding for years on APB'sRTW  Unreal 3 beta, yes, the word Unreal is there, people have been coding on actual Unreal for years, not APB's unique Unreal.


Edited by OniShema, 12 March 2016 - 08:41 AM.

CRIMINAL-MadalenaKurtz      Jericho-NA       Clan:  Joker Rejects

I didn't leave the game, I'm just working.   Best way to explain Reloaded "not doing anything"

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#9
Ketog

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APB runs on Unreal 3 Beta. Developed before Gears of War, so before UDK was ever released. APB is supported by tons of plugins that RTW created that makes APB what it is.

 

Reloaded is overhauling APB's "wonderful" RTW Unreal engine to actual Unreal 3.

 

It's why they could never fix some bugs, develop more content such as big features or interesting mechanics because of the limitations the engine pushes them away from because trying to do anything on APB's current build, they could break one thing or many. One major thing being the fact APB utilizes your CPU more than it should, mainly because it was made around the time when a GPU was a cool thing to have instead of something to actually needed to play video games on PC.It's just really unoptimized. The engine being fixed isn't just looks being improved, that's going to happen regardless, if people say that's what Reloaded focused on the whole time, I'm sure they didn't, it just came with moving to an engine that actually does what the modern Unreal is capable of performing, you're gonna get performance AND looks, don't worry about either overlooking the other.

 

The current engine is keeping them from doing anything major like actually expand onwards for the game. It's why they couldn't simply hire more people that know Unreal, because the Unreal that APB runs off of, isn't taught in schools, it was exclusive to what RTW made APB.

 

It's why when you're shot, your game will frame drop suddenly because the game is more than likely rendering a texture instead of referencing it to be easier on processing. The world has light maps, so that when things like night time come around, those indescructable street lamps, do what they do and stay there because if you move them, there's still going to be light projected on the ground since APB's Unreal doesn't support dynamic shading, another reason we don't have something simple like head light projection, APB has dynamic shading, just not as dynamic as it needs to be in the current tech standard, but think of this as well, why don't we have neon underglow on vehicles. The game has client based physics for anything that isn't a vehicle, grenade or consumable, so it's why when someone t-bags you, you're wondering why they're like 5 meters away from your corpse. Ever wondered why cars in APB are so slow? It's because the physics will literally make the cars wheelie or worse, the game can't actually handle it and crash.

 

When people fuzzy bunny at Reloaded to fix the game, they already are fixing it, people just need to be patient. When the engine overhaul comes out, don't fuzzy bunny if there are bugs, report them and help the game make progress as an active community member.

 

 

As I've argued with DopeFish before when I think he was drunk, I said "The engine overhaul will enable Reloaded to fix the game and make it what it needs to be." and was told I was wrong that "The engine overhaul will not instantly fix the game." Please people, don't think the same, just understand this will take time, I get those of you like me who've been playing for 6 years have either given up or are waiting a long time, but those of you who've joined the APB community in the past 2-3 years, it used to be much worse, this game has come a long way, but the engine limits what Reloaded dreams of doing with APB. I don't want to be rude to those recent 2-3 year players but a lot of you think it's bad now? You better ask a vet, you're lucky if they still give a damn to tell you what Reloaded's actually done instead of a ungrateful esque opinion of why they think Reloaded can't make a game or give you the stale "They'll just make more JMB's" joke.

 

 

If there is anything I said is wrong or missing, post it, don't be an patootie about it, this is about informing new players of information that isn't "out there", these kind of things after playing so long, you either catch on or understand after looking farther into the details.

 

I'm sure the only reason people are angry with Reloaded over APB's progress is just misunderstanding and not knowing a lot of things, that can't be helped. RTW did what they did, Reloaded is just working with what they have and working hard to make the game capable of expanding from what it hasn't been able to do for the past 6 years.

 

Edit: Just one more bit from me before I goto bed, you people that have fuzzy bunnyed about $40 weapons, think of all the time it takes to master weapon levels in APB, let alone across characters, I'm sure there's a good reason the guns are that pricy, you're buying to instantly advance, this is the only Pay 2 Win thing I see in APB, the only thing you can Pay 2 Win is buying something that people can work for when you could just pay money and have those 3 slot weapons in an instant. The element of winning here is instant progression, not a gun that counters everything, there is no gun in APB that does that, I'm talking one hit kills or a gun with no negatives to it at all.

 

 

Man you just explained why G1 is doing the engine upgrade better than they did

 

i can't thank you enought for doing the Dev's / Comunity manager job !



#10
OniShema

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Man you just explained why G1 is doing the engine upgrade better than they did

 

i can't thank you enought for doing the Dev's / Comunity manager job !

They have to make things easier to understand for the masses, I can't blame them. They can't go into detail majority of the time or deal with doing what I posted last night.

 

It's better a community member say it than a dev because I'm sure if a dev said it, it would break all hell loose, people would want to read what they want to read and put words in peoples mouths.

 

The information isn't "out there" but when you look how far back APB was made and find the devil in the details, you'll see that APB has excuses for a ton of things, you can't blame Reloaded for APB's engine, but you can blame Reloadeds first 3 years of not attempting to overhaul the engine to be compatible with actual Unreal and not their RTW Unreal.


Edited by OniShema, 12 March 2016 - 08:44 AM.

CRIMINAL-MadalenaKurtz      Jericho-NA       Clan:  Joker Rejects

I didn't leave the game, I'm just working.   Best way to explain Reloaded "not doing anything"

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#11
Szambi

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Edited by Szambi, 12 March 2016 - 08:54 AM.

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#12
OniShema

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You're the winner here

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CRIMINAL-MadalenaKurtz      Jericho-NA       Clan:  Joker Rejects

I didn't leave the game, I'm just working.   Best way to explain Reloaded "not doing anything"

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#13
Goabea

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Plus, I can cconfirm this too. I've talked to a few of the old devs myself, and even know people who know them personally ( Jotun gets pretty loose lipped when loopy )

The current engine is a weird.... Frankenstein's monster of a engine. It's a weird cobbling of the beta Unreal 3 + bits of in house coding... Now that us where the major problem is. The guys who originally wrote APB's engine code have long left RP.
The current team has no true idea as to what to do with the current engine, and it's massive limitations ( being based on a beta engine)

That is the biggest reason the engine upgrade was even considered. Any other team would have left APB floating dead in the river... But not RP

It shows they truly love this game... But are unable to do much to fix it ATM. It's like trying to help a loved who broke their leg while your own leg is broken.

RP deserves more credit then what they're getting now.

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#14
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You're the winner here
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My forum account doesn't show when I started playing APB :D

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#15
OniShema

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My forum account doesn't show when I started playing APB :D

I've had this account since when Warrock was around. Good F2P BattleField times.

 

Was talking about your 1337 posts.

 

mlg420blazeit


Edited by OniShema, 12 March 2016 - 09:16 AM.

CRIMINAL-MadalenaKurtz      Jericho-NA       Clan:  Joker Rejects

I didn't leave the game, I'm just working.   Best way to explain Reloaded "not doing anything"

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#16
Lord Cashpoint

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The information isn't "out there" but when you look how far back APB was made and find the devil in the details, you'll see that APB has excuses for a ton of things, you can't blame Reloaded for APB's engine, but you can blame Reloadeds first 3 years of not attempting to overhaul the engine to be compatible with actual Unreal and not their RTW Unreal.


I'm not 100% on the actual members of Reloaded Staff, but wasn't it after that period where a load of developers left in 2013 did we see actual promises about upgrading the engine?

People give this team shit about how long things are taking, but the other team (Revoemag and such) weren't even willing to talk about a server merge.

Edited by Lord Cashpoint, 12 March 2016 - 09:20 AM.

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#17
OniShema

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I'm not 100% on the actual members of Reloaded Staff, but wasn't it after that period where a load of developers left in 2013 did we see actual promises about upgrading the engine?

People give this team shit about how long things are taking, but the other team (Revoemag and such) weren't even willing to talk about a server merge.

Yes, at that time more than likely they were working on the engine overhaul and became public about it a year later, being 2 years ago.

 

You remember how bad it was, I know you've been here for as around as long as I have, I forget who the community manager was, I faintly remember it was Revoemag and the producer was Jericho, but who ever the CM was, those little Steam updates we see on patches, event notices, annoucements and such, never ever happened unless it was some "Major Patch". Until Tiggs joined their team, those "small" notices, never happened, the amount of info she gives us now, never happened.

 

I forget what job JotunBlunt had but damn, if there was anything he did wrong, I don't remember it.


Edited by OniShema, 12 March 2016 - 09:26 AM.

CRIMINAL-MadalenaKurtz      Jericho-NA       Clan:  Joker Rejects

I didn't leave the game, I'm just working.   Best way to explain Reloaded "not doing anything"

76561198007436876.png


#18
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i will be honest most of this stuff is way over my head

but why announce that theyre just "working" on an engine upgrade so far in advance that it would basically take the time to code a new game

 

i think thats where they shot themselves in the foot, they made announcements and knowing full well they would not reach the estimated release time frames they gave themselves Q1 2014 *ahem*

and here we are approaching the end of Q1 2016 STILL without a solid release date to look forward to and another content dry spell


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#19
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Woah, there's someone in this community who actually understands what a game engine is and how they work?

 

Fancy. Here I was thinking I was the only one here who had actually done any game development or game modding. ;P


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#20
OniShema

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i will be honest most of this stuff is way over my head

but why announce that theyre just "working" on an engine upgrade so far in advance that it would basically take the time to code a new game

 

i think thats where they shot themselves in the foot, they made announcements and knowing full well they would not reach the estimated release time frames they gave themselves Q1 2014 *ahem*

and here we are approaching the end of Q1 2016 STILL without a solid release date to look forward to and another content dry spell

They're trying to make sure that everything APB is now, is transferred over to Unreal 3 so that when APB is on a stable, EPIC Unreal 3, they can advance from that point on and not look back.

 

Pretty sure they want us to have all our things in the next game as well. After all we paid for it, but they own everything they can do with it, so we can only hope.

 

If anything, I hope they release the next Specialist contacts soon to tide people over, the game needs it with the current population, it's been a while since we got GumBall and Templeton.

 

Them putting out content that would be stable for APB, they've had to pace themselves with releasing it because there's so much you can do with adding only mods, gun remeshes, new guns, cars and clothing without people wanting APB to actually be more than it was supposed to be.

 

Hell, I've loved to see APB be open world, one whole city, housing, clan events with reworked vehicle mechanics so racing can be a thing. People this generation will fuzzy bunny about some things old MMO's did but the purpose is to expand on the games world with in reasons, go ahead, say its cringey to have rp or player/clan housing, people 10 years ago weren't saying that about games.

 

After overhaul, it should more than likely be smoothing over any common errors then engine produces in tactful manner. Even if it's a year of fixing on release, they could release minor test content in small bits to experiment with the game as long as it doesnt gosh darn with core mechanics for the game. After that, I hope to see the game start to expand to make APB that staple of, "Be all you can't be", vanity, vigilante cops vs robbers with elements of crime and law as gameplay elements that trickle out to be more than that missions we play everyday ingame.

 

Just a tidbit here, housing as an personal instance wouldn't be an issue, Unreal 3 is capable of you hosting it on your PC without it dragging server perfomance down, the content just loads on your client and your client just says it's connected to the server. Keep the nasty thoughts of what would destory APB's server performance, away, that's now, with what Unreal 3 will offer them, lag should only be an issue because of you, not the game.

 

To clear up the word lag for some people, when you say lag, people think you're talking about internet speed. Majority the time, people are talking about low framerate drops. That's not FPS lag, FPS lag is when your GPU can't handle to keep up processing, this happens when your GPU is dying, it can't handle the voltages it needs so don't argue with what FPS and connection lag is.

 

The thing I talked about earlier about them releasing small bits of content to test features that don't mess with core mechanics, that's usually called test bedding, playing an incomplete feature but works without minor added mechanics. It's so they can make something and expand on it. Like if they make a clan war system, it will start out minor and easy pickins in the beginning with simple mechanics, after looking at how it performs, they can add extra mechanics, content and features based on how they want to evolve or expand the mechanic without abandoning the core reason it was made.

^

In better example, it's like this Eastern mech combat series I've plotted out to create in the next 6 years, the first game in the series is just base combat, mechs vs mechs, it's a complete set mechanic with combat and instanced maps. That's my testbed. The next game on the plate is take everything I had from the first game and, overhaul it over and add more than just combat and instanced maps, I'm taking the lobby based match making to a huge planet, on one server where people fight over territories as 7 nations. I'm not saying my game mechanics idea to tell you "hou wot u think, is it kewl", I'm saying this to explain testbedding, APB  unironically taught me what testbedding was.


Edited by OniShema, 12 March 2016 - 09:52 AM.

CRIMINAL-MadalenaKurtz      Jericho-NA       Clan:  Joker Rejects

I didn't leave the game, I'm just working.   Best way to explain Reloaded "not doing anything"

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#21
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yeah, we got gumball and aletta cadagen like 3 years ago? kinda oh my! if you think about it

i think they just dont have free2play content to add to the contacts, like mods, cars,  or new clothes that havnt been added to armas

 

id really just like to see the engine for PC released already, even if it is buggy - they can fix the bugs in weekly patches as we go along like they did since they owned it

 

but what im really not happy about is performance, most of my friends before they quit, and myself have experienced degraded performance over time i think since i started playing i lost about 30 fps average, i can barely break 40 fps these days unless i play on minimal


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#22
Lord Cashpoint

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You remember how bad it was, I know you've been here for as around as long as I have, I forget who the community manager was, I faintly remember it was Revoemag and the producer was Jericho, but who ever the CM was, those little Steam updates we see on patches, event notices, annoucements and such, never ever happened unless it was some "Major Patch". Until Tiggs joined their team, those "small" notices, never happened, the amount of info she gives us now, never happened.


Jericho was in charge of a lot of the announcements, but he only ever gave very stock answers to any questions asked. People these days, they don't know how many NFA-9 shots it takes to blow up an ambulance. Tiggs is 100x more engaging than he ever was.

But yeah I agree. Back then, the population numbers (and arguably server performance) somewhat masked the problems the game really had. I think the ATAC's balance issues pale in comparison to the original Nano paired with jump-shooting scouts. In fact, the original shotguns were only ever fixed after Revoemag left. That's even without mentioning the pre-drop off gameplay, where N-tecs with HB2 could easily kill up to 80m (Although I always believed they made the drop off too strong on some weapons, and remember how destroyed the Obeya was?). No fairfight either, it was relying on the really outdated Punkbuster to do the job. Literally the release of Asylum (And fightclub in general) and rebalanced weapons were the only major events I remember from the pre-gold rush time.

I'd reiterate though that I think having a far more active and engaged community back then is what people miss, which is why I'm pinning a lot on the engine upgrade for drawing back players.

As a side note also, I'd rather they take time to think about what to release in the new contacts, because all the New Breed ones so far have had good things (Flak Jacket, Fragile, Valzipram) and bad (Low Yields, Remote Detonator)

Edited by Lord Cashpoint, 12 March 2016 - 09:51 AM.

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#23
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id really just like to see the engine for PC released already, even if it is buggy - they can fix the bugs in weekly patches as we go along like they did since they owned it

 

I think that the reason they don't just release it is that they're afraid people would be upset if APB side-graded over to a much more buggy, possibly worse performing version of the game, and want to wait until it's truly an upgrade.

 

I personally would love to play in a beta version of the upgrade, but I think most people wouldn't.


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#24
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I'm not one to say or perform so but if this was pinned, the knowledge said here may put some more people at ease.

 

I've been saying this information for years in game and small parts of it on the forums but last night was it for me. I finally told my self to get back to my Google Documents and say something about APB that people need to know, Reloaded isn't hiding the information, it's there, when you're playing the game, you just don't know what to look for or how to see it.

 

Like how with APB running, my GTX 960 runs its load at %52 meanwhile my CPU only gets a stable frame rate at 60 FPS if I keep AMD Cool n Quiet off.  There's games that use the CPU to run it, but it uses the CPU and GPU for certain things depending on how the game is coded, don't compare other games to APB, they're on different engines.

 

This game runs like games used to when you played Quake, GPU's were cool to have, not needed.


Edited by OniShema, 12 March 2016 - 09:59 AM.

CRIMINAL-MadalenaKurtz      Jericho-NA       Clan:  Joker Rejects

I didn't leave the game, I'm just working.   Best way to explain Reloaded "not doing anything"

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#25
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Bump for the masses


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I didn't leave the game, I'm just working.   Best way to explain Reloaded "not doing anything"

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#26
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(...)how many NFA-9 shots it takes to blow up an ambulance. (...)

 

I'm curious.


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#27
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Woah, there's someone in this community who actually understands what a game engine is and how they work?

 

Fancy. Here I was thinking I was the only one here who had actually done any game development or game modding. ;P

 

Don't even need first-hand experience, just read technical presentations from GDC and the like. Its what I do at least.



#28
Mr. Obeya

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---

That's a very good statment Shema.

The current engine is keeping them from doing anything major like actually expand onwards for the game. It's why they couldn't simply hire more people that know Unreal, because the Unreal that APB runs off of, isn't taught in schools, it was exclusive to what RTW made APB.

It still uses the same scripting language (unrealscript) and I heard they haven't really touched the unreal editor that much (other than to add a few stuff like the modular road tool). APB developers are very capable of doing new things, but the old UE3 is prone to frequent crashes and the development process with it is very slow.

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#29
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I do believe theyre working at their best, however theyre seriously lacking enough manpower to do this, thats why theyre on the project for 3 years or even longer now.

The whole code of APB is a huge clusterpuck and something breaks everytime they add something.

 

 

I sure hope that they'll finally get to an end, release the engine upgrade and get the maximum potential out of APB Reloaded before the playerbase dies completely.



#30
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Nice topic. But it does not explain why developers do not giving any info about engine upgrade... Any videos or blogs with screenshots. Just few more pictures should make community much happier...
But instead of it we have to think, that they do not doing this at all, or maybe 2 poor coders making all this "upgrade" and they cant share any info because they have nothing new.
Im not saying that all things are so bad, but we just cant think another way because they not sharing any new info for a long time.
Spoiler

Edited by StellaBridger, 24 March 2016 - 02:17 PM.

Sorry if my english bad, it's not my native.

And yeah, I learned it in game chats looking how kids speaking :\
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#31
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Nice topic. But it does not explain why developers do not giving any info about engine upgrade... Any videos or blogs with screenshots. Just few more pictures should make community much happier...
But instead of it we have to think, that they do not doing this at all, or maybe 2 poor coders making all this "upgrade" and they cant share any info because they have nothing new.
Im not saying that all things are so bad, but we just cant think another way because they not sharing any new info for a long time.

Spoiler

There isn't much to make an announcement for, when most of what they are doing is file conversion.


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I didn't leave the game, I'm just working.   Best way to explain Reloaded "not doing anything"

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#32
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nice read guys


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#33
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Good to see some clear infos, but I'm still wondering... why did they choose Unreal Engine 3 over UE4? Was it not released yet when they had the idea to upgrade the engine?


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#34
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Of course every engine has it's limits.
A lot of that has to do with the speed at which a game can calculate certain effects. Lighting for example, resolution of textures and so on and so forth.
This however, is NOT the problem that the APB-engine currently has. It's not about those types of limitations, it's about working with what you've got.
There is a reason why every single typo that is fixed contains a 50mb patch. In Dota for example, which currently runs on the Source 2 Engine such a fix would be marginal, probably less than 1mb. In APB however, the game is on UE3 Beta engine. This means it doesn't have Patch-Support. For every patch the developers have to respectively build the entire Plugin that is used to display those mission texts from the ground up. This plugin has to be integrated into the game in it's entirety. APB is based on an awful lot of plugins that are not coded properly into the base engine. This is why the game runs so bad and this is why every patch is a bloody nightmare for the devs. Adding to that, the code is a clusterf*ck, barely readable. 
All this combined makes it hard for them to work with the game at all. Hence why the new engine will solve a lot of the most basic issues the devs currently have.
 


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#35
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Please bump the threat if you can before you read on, this info would help a lot of people considering the well being of the game. A lot of people don't know these things but it's not like I'm exposing anything new. Give a read on my 2nd link in the signature when you're done here, it'll help give another sprout of why the game is in part lacking in both game and community.

APB runs on Unreal 3 Beta. Developed before Gears of War, so before UDK was ever released. APB is supported by tons of plugins that RTW created that makes APB what it is.

Reloaded is overhauling APB's "wonderful" RTW Unreal engine to actual Unreal 3.

 

This is almost, entirely file converting. So hence there would be no reason to post progress of the engine in bits because the engine overhaul will be nothing till it's complete as a whole.

It's why they could never fix some bugs, develop more content such as big features or interesting mechanics because of the limitations the engine pushes them away from because trying to do anything on APB's current build, they could break one thing or many. One major thing being the fact APB utilizes your CPU more than it should, mainly because it was made around the time when a GPU was a cool thing to have instead of something to actually needed to play video games on PC.It's just really unoptimized. The engine being fixed isn't just looks being improved, that's going to happen regardless, if people say that's what Reloaded focused on the whole time, I'm sure they didn't, it just came with moving to an engine that actually does what the modern Unreal is capable of performing, you're gonna get performance AND looks, don't worry about either overlooking the other.

The current engine is keeping them from doing anything major like actually expand onwards for the game. It's why they couldn't simply hire more people that know Unreal, because the Unreal that APB runs off of, isn't taught in schools, it was exclusive to what RTW made APB.

It's why when you're shot, your game will frame drop suddenly because the game is more than likely rendering a texture instead of referencing it to be easier on processing. The world has light maps, so that when things like night time come around, those indescructable street lamps, do what they do and stay there because if you move them, there's still going to be light projected on the ground since APB's Unreal doesn't support dynamic shading, another reason we don't have something simple like head light projection, APB has dynamic shading, just not as dynamic as it needs to be in the current tech standard, but think of this as well, why don't we have neon underglow on vehicles. The game has client based physics for anything that isn't a vehicle, grenade or consumable, so it's why when someone t-bags you, you're wondering why they're like 5 meters away from your corpse. Ever wondered why cars in APB are so slow? It's because the physics will literally make the cars wheelie or worse, the game can't actually handle it and crash.

When people fuzzy bunny at Reloaded to fix the game, they already are fixing it, people just need to be patient. When the engine overhaul comes out, don't fuzzy bunny if there are bugs, report them and help the game make progress as an active community member.


As I've argued with DopeFish before when I think he was drunk, I said "The engine overhaul will enable Reloaded to fix the game and make it what it needs to be." and was told I was wrong that "The engine overhaul will not instantly fix the game." Please people, don't think the same, just understand this will take time, I get those of you like me who've been playing for 6 years have either given up or are waiting a long time, but those of you who've joined the APB community in the past 2-3 years, it used to be much worse, this game has come a long way, but the engine limits what Reloaded dreams of doing with APB. I don't want to be rude to those recent 2-3 year players but a lot of you think it's bad now? You better ask a vet, you're lucky if they still give a damn to tell you what Reloaded's actually done instead of a ungrateful esque opinion of why they think Reloaded can't make a game or give you the stale "They'll just make more JMB's" joke.


If there is anything I said is wrong or missing, post it, don't be an patootie about it, this is about informing new players of information that isn't "out there", these kind of things after playing so long, you either catch on or understand after looking farther into the details.

I'm sure the only reason people are angry with Reloaded over APB's progress is just misunderstanding and not knowing a lot of things, that can't be helped. RTW did what they did, Reloaded is just working with what they have and working hard to make the game capable of expanding from what it hasn't been able to do for the past 6 years.

Edit: Just one more bit from me before I goto bed, you people that have fuzzy bunnyed about $40 weapons, think of all the time it takes to master weapon levels in APB, let alone across characters, I'm sure there's a good reason the guns are that pricy, you're buying to instantly advance, this is the only Pay 2 Win thing I see in APB, the only thing you can Pay 2 Win is buying something that people can work for when you could just pay money and have those 3 slot weapons in an instant. The element of winning here is instant progression, not a gun that counters everything, there is no gun in APB that does that, I'm talking one hit kills or a gun with no negatives to it at all.

Best line in the wall "When people fuzzy bunny at Reloaded to fix the game" :troll_face: Seriously though, some good info <33


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#36
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i want to read more about this stuff x)


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#37
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I hate coding and programing with a passion ( I found this out at the age of 13 (1986) in early computer classes at school. But I love the info you guys have written about here:) I am very logical by nature and the matter you discuss is very logical :) keep it up guys :)

#38
Lord Cashpoint

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I'm curious.

 

A video promoting the newly released Armas version of the NFA 9, the 'Quickdraw' had a segment showing a player shooting an NFA 9 at an ambulance. Many people ridiculed it, and after which it became somewhat of an in-joke, with every new weapon release seeing someone (can't remember who) making a video of how many shots it took to blow up an ambulance. 


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#39
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Good to see some clear infos, but I'm still wondering... why did they choose Unreal Engine 3 over UE4? Was it not released yet when they had the idea to upgrade the engine?

Well, UE4 wasn't out yet, they started the engine upgrade in 2012 but didn't announce it until 2013 if I'm remembering that right, and based on what others have said UE3 games can't be converted to UE4, or easily at least.  If I recall correctly, none of the code would work with UE4 and really only the assets would be able to be transferred over.  Either way though it would be easier to convert UE3 Beta to UE3.5.


Edited by BrandonBranderson, 03 May 2016 - 12:04 PM.


#40
KyoukiDotExe

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Please bump the threat if you can before you read on, this info would help a lot of people considering the well being of the game. A lot of people don't know these things but it's not like I'm exposing anything new. Give a read on my 2nd link in the signature when you're done here, it'll help give another sprout of why the game is in part lacking in both game and community.

APB runs on Unreal 3 Beta. Developed before Gears of War, so before UDK was ever released. APB is supported by tons of plugins that RTW created that makes APB what it is.

Reloaded is overhauling APB's "wonderful" RTW Unreal engine to actual Unreal 3.

 

This is almost, entirely file converting. So hence there would be no reason to post progress of the engine in bits because the engine overhaul will be nothing till it's complete as a whole.

It's why they could never fix some bugs, develop more content such as big features or interesting mechanics because of the limitations the engine pushes them away from because trying to do anything on APB's current build, they could break one thing or many. One major thing being the fact APB utilizes your CPU more than it should, mainly because it was made around the time when a GPU was a cool thing to have instead of something to actually needed to play video games on PC.It's just really unoptimized. The engine being fixed isn't just looks being improved, that's going to happen regardless, if people say that's what Reloaded focused on the whole time, I'm sure they didn't, it just came with moving to an engine that actually does what the modern Unreal is capable of performing, you're gonna get performance AND looks, don't worry about either overlooking the other.

The current engine is keeping them from doing anything major like actually expand onwards for the game. It's why they couldn't simply hire more people that know Unreal, because the Unreal that APB runs off of, isn't taught in schools, it was exclusive to what RTW made APB.

It's why when you're shot, your game will frame drop suddenly because the game is more than likely rendering a texture instead of referencing it to be easier on processing. The world has light maps, so that when things like night time come around, those indescructable street lamps, do what they do and stay there because if you move them, there's still going to be light projected on the ground since APB's Unreal doesn't support dynamic shading, another reason we don't have something simple like head light projection, APB has dynamic shading, just not as dynamic as it needs to be in the current tech standard, but think of this as well, why don't we have neon underglow on vehicles. The game has client based physics for anything that isn't a vehicle, grenade or consumable, so it's why when someone t-bags you, you're wondering why they're like 5 meters away from your corpse. Ever wondered why cars in APB are so slow? It's because the physics will literally make the cars wheelie or worse, the game can't actually handle it and crash.

When people fuzzy bunny at Reloaded to fix the game, they already are fixing it, people just need to be patient. When the engine overhaul comes out, don't fuzzy bunny if there are bugs, report them and help the game make progress as an active community member.


As I've argued with DopeFish before when I think he was drunk, I said "The engine overhaul will enable Reloaded to fix the game and make it what it needs to be." and was told I was wrong that "The engine overhaul will not instantly fix the game." Please people, don't think the same, just understand this will take time, I get those of you like me who've been playing for 6 years have either given up or are waiting a long time, but those of you who've joined the APB community in the past 2-3 years, it used to be much worse, this game has come a long way, but the engine limits what Reloaded dreams of doing with APB. I don't want to be rude to those recent 2-3 year players but a lot of you think it's bad now? You better ask a vet, you're lucky if they still give a damn to tell you what Reloaded's actually done instead of a ungrateful esque opinion of why they think Reloaded can't make a game or give you the stale "They'll just make more JMB's" joke.


If there is anything I said is wrong or missing, post it, don't be an patootie about it, this is about informing new players of information that isn't "out there", these kind of things after playing so long, you either catch on or understand after looking farther into the details.

I'm sure the only reason people are angry with Reloaded over APB's progress is just misunderstanding and not knowing a lot of things, that can't be helped. RTW did what they did, Reloaded is just working with what they have and working hard to make the game capable of expanding from what it hasn't been able to do for the past 6 years.

Edit: Just one more bit from me before I goto bed, you people that have fuzzy bunnyed about $40 weapons, think of all the time it takes to master weapon levels in APB, let alone across characters, I'm sure there's a good reason the guns are that pricy, you're buying to instantly advance, this is the only Pay 2 Win thing I see in APB, the only thing you can Pay 2 Win is buying something that people can work for when you could just pay money and have those 3 slot weapons in an instant. The element of winning here is instant progression, not a gun that counters everything, there is no gun in APB that does that, I'm talking one hit kills or a gun with no negatives to it at all.

 

What Dopefish meant is that the gameplay issues are still there, unbalanced weapons, unbalanced missions, spots unreachable, etc. Purely gameplay. Dope used to love this game very much and he would almost play it everyday. But the frustration from the poor gameplay just turned him away from the game. He was the last person standing with a decent positive attitude, even he turned away which means it sure as hell is that the gameplay is horrible right now.


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