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US judge blocks tools that help GTA Online players cheat

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https://www.pcgamer.com/us-judge-blocks-tools-that-help-gta-online-players-cheat

"On Thursday, U.S District Judge Luis Stratton awarded the injunction against Georgia resident David Zipperer, who Take-Two had accused of selling two programs without the company’s permission, which provided players who used them an unfair advantage in GTA Online."

this could/should open the doors for software/game makers to actually have a path of legal action against these companies.
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that's not gonna stop us from getting ddos'd tho

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6 hours ago, Sharakon said:

Dont join parties if you dont want to be DDoS'd 

This is xbox and ps4 social drama in a nutshell. I saw someone /yell someone ip in chat 

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21 hours ago, (Xbox)MortisedGuide said:
On 8/22/2018 at 12:08 PM, Sharakon said:

Dont join parties if you dont want to be DDoS'd 

This is xbox and ps4 social drama in a nutshell. I saw someone /yell someone ip in chat 
lol, I've been seeing videos of the shit that goes on on consoles and it's pretty hilarious.  It's like children at a playground bragging about their edgy outfits that PC players seem to have grown out of 4 years ago and their K/D ratios.  It's like the PC community and the console community are two different species almost.  We've had our fair share of stupid drama too, but on consoles it seems more... primal?  Petty?  Just insults thrown back and forth between a child and a grown man, the man accuses the child of being P2W trash for using a gun that is actually free, then insults the kid's outfit while the man's outfit is just black tactical gear with a lime green trim that looks like it was just slapped on.  Then the man makes a video of it with an all caps title calling out the kid, trying to make himself seem cool.

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This is the video but I think mainly since consoles players don't buy Computers since how much they cost and how advanced they are and that they don't pay that much just to run a 60 dollar or a free game on an expensive big rig on a pc. But console players buy consoles to play a game since a console game is a guarantee to run and a pc game depends on the specs of your hardware. 

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I have seen many cases of the user posting their victims IP in the chat thats so stupid and childish for 1. Insta-Ban for 2. 
But this XXXMarcus I talk to him sometimes on PS4 and he just chasing clout on the game. All these people do is argue and try to "roast" by yelling louder than the other its pretty pathetic.

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12 hours ago, Sharakon said:

I have seen many cases of the user posting their victims IP in the chat thats so stupid and childish for 1. Insta-Ban for 2. 
But this XXXMarcus I talk to him sometimes on PS4 and he just chasing clout on the game. All these people do is argue and try to "roast" by yelling louder than the other its pretty pathetic.

Console social in nutshell. The yelling part is a bit true.

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Not sure i appreciate the law meddling in gaming and cheats. Ddos, alrite - but cheats? Unless there is financial damage this shouldn't be handled by government law.

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Important context:

  1. An Injunction just means that they're not allowed to sell their stuff while the lawsuit is on-going. This doesn't mean that Take-Two has won, it just means that they're not allowed to sell their cheats.
     
  2. Take-Two's main argument is that the program is altering the game's code on the server-side, and using its copyrighted work. (Which would be a violation of the CFAA, although both points have yet to be proven)
     
  3. The judge in the case, is 90 years old, he has no experience with video games and the likes, and in an earlier lawsuit (Google's Youtube v Viacom) literally told YouTube to hand Viacom personal user information, which A) Is a breach of almost every privacy law imaginable and B) is really f---- stupid.
     
  4. Nothing what the plaintiff is doing is actually illegal, but I'm pretty sure take-two will spin the story in such a way it'll seem to people with 0 knowledge about computers that it is illegal to set a president against making cheats/mods.
     
  5. If take two actually wins this case, it won't hurt cheaters, they'll continue to make cheats on the basis of not really caring, at all. However, this WILL hurt the modding scene and the repair scene.
     
  6. Take-Two's claiming his "cheats" costed the company "at least $500,000" (yes that's half a million) to which my question would be, "how exactly?"

    Why? Because modders need to alter the code of a game to make their mods work, and people who want to repair their digital stuff, also need to be able to alter the code of their devices to reach certain maintenance features, think jail breaking an iPhone, or rooting an android phone to pull data off it
Tl.Dr This lawsuit might actually be a bad thing for the gaming community, also, people ddosing the game already are abusing the CFAA, and can be held liable for that.
(also https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Preliminary+Injunction ) Edited by NekuKiriyu
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There is some truth to this... The majority of PC gamers that I know tend to be more mature/intelligent people. While the guys that play consoles typically are pretty basic, and couldn't give a shit less about having quality storyline, character development, and in-depth game mechanics.   
It's like the people who try and fucking tell me that Bladerunner and Bladerunner 2049 were "bad" movies....  Fucking idiots....  Go back to your Disney and Avengers. 

Edited by TrinityFSB
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8 hours ago, TrinityFSB said:

 

There is some truth to this... The majority of PC gamers that I know tend to be more mature/intelligent people. While the guys that play consoles typically are pretty basic, and couldn't give a shit less about having quality storyline, character development, and in-depth game mechanics.   
It's like the people who try and fucking tell me that Bladerunner and Bladerunner 2049 were "bad" movies....  Fucking idiots....  Go back to your Disney and Avengers. 


what does this have to do with the topic at hand?....

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7 hours ago, NekuKiriyu said:

what does this have to do with the topic at hand?....
Tried to quote BrandonBranderson but it wouldn't let me. 😕

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6 hours ago, TrinityFSB said:
Tried to quote BrandonBranderson but it wouldn't let me. 😕
Pc players are more mature than console players. Sometimes people let loose in social but on console, It's chaos 24/7

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On 8/21/2018 at 4:39 PM, uraputz said:

this could/should open the doors for software/game makers to actually have a path of legal action against these companies.

It really won't, but you keep that false flame of hope burning.

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On 9/6/2018 at 11:33 PM, Sniperturtle said:

Not sure i appreciate the law meddling in gaming and cheats. Ddos, alrite - but cheats? Unless there is financial damage this shouldn't be handled by government law.


Ddos prevents players from having a decent experience playing the game.
Cheats prevents players from having a decent experience playing the game.

So... tell me again, what exactly is the difference?

Oh, we can take it 1 step further too.
Ddos prevents potential consumers from having the interest in supporting the game financially (since they are not getting a decent experience playing)
Cheats prevents potential consumers from.......

I think you get the picture now?

Can't wait until internet access gets restricted on a personal level and there's actual consequences when you get caught being a freak cheating in online games, fking with other peoples financial investments 🙂 
The law can't move quick enough, they're way behind - but at least, slowly something is happening.
 

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10 hours ago, Tigrix said:


Ddos prevents players from having a decent experience playing the game.
Cheats prevents players from having a decent experience playing the game.

So... tell me again, what exactly is the difference?

Oh, we can take it 1 step further too.
Ddos prevents potential consumers from having the interest in supporting the game financially (since they are not getting a decent experience playing)
Cheats prevents potential consumers from.......

I think you get the picture now?

Can't wait until internet access gets restricted on a personal level and there's actual consequences when you get caught being a freak cheating in online games, fking with other peoples financial investments 🙂 
The law can't move quick enough, they're way behind - but at least, slowly something is happening.
 

You are not looking at this from a point of legal terms.
Hacking or infringing upon an online service is illegal already, installing programs on your computer - while annoying - is not (yet).
If you start with cheaters you are creating a precedent that can be widened to whatever you want, including making mods for other games illegal, etc.

 

You gotta use your brains before yelling "Bring the police!", seriously.

 

So if anything, cheaters should be sued on the terms of financial damage incurred and not on the terms of installing software on their computers.

And then, even that is a thin line right there - Imagine for example the amount of "reparations" companies like Bethesda could demand from the Nexus on the basis of such a law simply for being a free and much better alternative to their silly Creation Club.

Like that - you don't just mess with the primal forces of law, everything you ask for will have consequences way beyond your recognition.

Edited by Sniperturtle
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7 hours ago, Sniperturtle said:

You are not looking at this from a point of legal terms.
Hacking or infringing upon an online service is illegal already, installing programs on your computer - while annoying - is not (yet).
If you start with cheaters you are creating a precedent that can be widened to whatever you want, including making mods for other games illegal, etc.

 

You gotta use your brains before yelling "Bring the police!", seriously.

 

So if anything, cheaters should be sued on the terms of financial damage incurred and not on the terms of installing software on their computers.

And then, even that is a thin line right there - Imagine for example the amount of "reparations" companies like Bethesda could demand from the Nexus on the basis of such a law simply for being a free and much better alternative to their silly Creation Club.

Like that - you don't just mess with the primal forces of law, everything you ask for will have consequences way beyond your recognition.


Perhaps you just need to accept to not modify or play altered versions of IP's you don't own?

Lets apply your logic then;
You find the Bethesda Creation Club silly, but i doubt the company shares your view. If you play a game where this "club" is relevant, then you somehow feel entitled to the right to use a 3rd party software for it, because you find the original "silly"..

"So if anything, cheaters should be sued on the terms of financial damage incurred and not on the terms of installing software on their computers."


That's exactly what I said.

Lemme ask you, how do you define financial damage? because imo, that damage incurs when any user refrain from using the game shop, because he/she has bad experiences with the game, due to cheaters running rampant. That's financial damage, right there. 

Did I state anywhere that any current laws have it figured out, how to deal with these issues? nope, quite oppositely, I said it's a slow process but i'm glad it's at least starting (baby steps)

I said I can't wait till the day that internet access is connected to a personal ID and what you do while you're online has a consequence, which in theory could cause your access to be revoked.
I know there will always be cases where it can be counter-argued, but imo, it'd cause a lot more good than bad to have this level of restriction possible and generally, having consequence is _always_ a good thing, because it bases itself in the primal case of _ you _ being responsible for what _you_ do.

So far, we only got weak attempts at consequence.
We have telecom companies restricting certain websites/IP's.
We have more and more games adding "parental control" software with their games. (but are any parents actually using them?)


With how much time people spend online vs offline, what we really need, is simply a better way that preserve people's rights to use the internet for free, but also establish a level of consequence for how you use(abuse) this freedom. Example with games; if you choose to break a TOS that you AGREED to follow when you downloaded a game.. Well, then it's best, for companies (financially) and all other users (experience-wise), that you are being restricted to offline play 😉 It's no more special than kicking you off a sports team, if you irl can't handle to compete fairly without drugs.

How soon that'll come about in an online way, idk - but with how much time people spend online and how sales and investments are being moved to almost entirely "online business" I can imagine it'll be in a not so distant future that there will be a lot more personal identification connected to the person behind the monitor, so less ability to feel anonymous and more consequence for how you behave in the "cloud", so to say, which I look forward to.

 

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On 11/22/2018 at 2:59 PM, Tigrix said:

Perhaps you just need to accept to not modify or play altered versions of IP's you don't own?

[...]

 

How about, i don't? How about i - as a PC user - install on my computer whatever the eff i want, and modify on my computer whatever the eff i want, and law can't do eff about it?

If you don't like it: Get a console!

How about, i don't care what Bethesda wants because i am the darn customer, and therefore the king?

How about, you go on to talk broad and lengthy about how internet is so important these days and continue the next sentence with "should have not internet because missbehaved", which makes no sense whatsoever, because you are infringing on someone's god-given right because you think they are a nuisance? -"You talk so much nonsense, maybe you shouldn't be allowed to breathe" *The epicness of my facepalm right here..., you can't believe this*

 

Edited by Sniperturtle

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On 11/24/2018 at 4:03 AM, Sniperturtle said:

 

How about, i don't? How about i - as a PC user - install on my computer whatever the eff i want, and modify on my computer whatever the eff i want, and law can't do eff about it?

If you don't like it: Get a console!

How about, i don't care what Bethesda wants because i am the darn customer, and therefore the king?

How about, you go on to talk broad and lengthy about how internet is so important these days and continue the next sentence with "should have not internet because missbehaved", which makes no sense whatsoever, because you are infringing on someone's god-given right because you think they are a nuisance? -"You talk so much nonsense, maybe you shouldn't be allowed to breathe" *The epicness of my facepalm right here..., you can't believe this*

 


How about.... if you had a job where you created original content, you'd probably respect the fact that there has to be a digital ownership, laws to enforce these IP copyrights and consumers who respect the ownership when they download and use those IPs. You downloaded APB, but you don't own your APB account, the company (LO) owns your account, you simply borrow it. So no, you can't do whatever the "eff" you want while you're playing their game, this is why you're asked to accept certain rules (a TOS) upon first login.

Yes, of course you should be revoked the right to use the internet, if you continuously show an inability to respect rules and common sense behavior.
You have no god-given right to use the internet, who the fk told you that? O.o 

Imo, you're part of the problem with the internet. You believe that because you are online, it means you are anonymous and should suffer zero consequences for your behavior... this is a stagnating and very old fashion way of thinking, considering the fact of how much of modern peoples lives and livelihoods now are intertwined with the internet. We spend thousands of hours online, the internet is no longer just a "interesting anonymous place", it's also a place where people work, where people build lives and create businesses that employ people - one of those businesses is Little Orbit.

So again yes, if you're a nuisance, even "just in games", aka someone who believe you should be free to install whatever the fk you want (and yes i agree, you should... but u should also suffer the consequence of what you DO, legally as well, in cases where you install cheats and break rules that financially damage another persons business) .... because Yes, you damage the financial profit of the game in which you are cheating. You think "ah fuck that, i'm just one person" .. no, you're one of many cheaters and you're all responsible and will inherently due to your own selfish choices, cause other players to lose interest in financially supporting the game and/or entirely quit the game - either way, it's a direct negative impact to the business of the game company.

(not saying you're a cheater btw, just explaining you the basics of financial damage, which you seem to think doesn't exist from people ruining games? makes no sense.)

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On 11/25/2018 at 2:25 PM, Tigrix said:


How about.... if you had a job where you created original content, you'd probably respect the fact that there has to be a digital ownership, laws to enforce these IP copyrights and consumers who respect the ownership when they download and use those IPs. You downloaded APB, but you don't own your APB account, the company (LO) owns your account, you simply borrow it. So no, you can't do whatever the "eff" you want while you're playing their game, this is why you're asked to accept certain rules (a TOS) upon first login.

Yes, of course you should be revoked the right to use the internet, if you continuously show an inability to respect rules and common sense behavior.
You have no god-given right to use the internet, who the fk told you that? O.o 

Imo, you're part of the problem with the internet. You believe that because you are online, it means you are anonymous and should suffer zero consequences for your behavior... this is a stagnating and very old fashion way of thinking, considering the fact of how much of modern peoples lives and livelihoods now are intertwined with the internet. We spend thousands of hours online, the internet is no longer just a "interesting anonymous place", it's also a place where people work, where people build lives and create businesses that employ people - one of those businesses is Little Orbit.

So again yes, if you're a nuisance, even "just in games", aka someone who believe you should be free to install whatever the fk you want (and yes i agree, you should... but u should also suffer the consequence of what you DO, legally as well, in cases where you install cheats and break rules that financially damage another persons business) .... because Yes, you damage the financial profit of the game in which you are cheating. You think "ah fuck that, i'm just one person" .. no, you're one of many cheaters and you're all responsible and will inherently due to your own selfish choices, cause other players to lose interest in financially supporting the game and/or entirely quit the game - either way, it's a direct negative impact to the business of the game company.

(not saying you're a cheater btw, just explaining you the basics of financial damage, which you seem to think doesn't exist from people ruining games? makes no sense.)

👍 complete agreement

 

On 8/24/2018 at 7:56 AM, (Xbox)MortisedGuide said:

This is the video but I think mainly since consoles players don't buy Computers since how much they cost and how advanced they are and that they don't pay that much just to run a 60 dollar or a free game on an expensive big rig on a pc. But console players buy consoles to play a game since a console game is a guarantee to run and a pc game depends on the specs of your hardware. 

I do not see the potential development of the game on consoles . for two hares chase - you will not catch any .

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On 11/29/2018 at 6:47 AM, Yood said:

👍 complete agreement

 

I do not see the potential development of the game on consoles . for two hares chase - you will not catch any .

Meh It's that or run apb on my trash pc with fps that are horrible

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23 hours ago, (Xbox)MortisedGuide said:

Meh It's that or run apb on my trash pc with fps that are horrible

the main problem on consoles is that online games make players act more argessive and he needs to control the situation more accurately . Joypad can't give it . Yes. transferring the game to the console guarantees 99% protection of the game from changing the game files by the user . protection from hackers . but the experience from the game lost 70 %

Edited by Yood

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