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Revert all changes to the game from 2013 onwards and go from there. Gamersfirst really, really fucked the game up over the past few years, and trying to balance around their terrible decisions is unlikely to yield positive results.

Edited by indi
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Some of those changes were for the better so no I can not agree with this.
However I can say that I am hopeful thanks to Little Orbit because without them we would not have anyone who cares about APB or us in teh community.
I'll just trust them since they give it their all to do whats right for APB and us all.

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You do realize you can't just pull a reversion of that size like it's a simple matter of flipping a switch, right? The financial hit they'd take would tank what little value the company's stock has, and any investors they have would immediately pull out. It would likely just outright kill the company.

 

Edited by Hexerin

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3 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

You do realize you can't just pull a reversion of that size like it's a simple matter of flipping a switch, right? The financial hit they'd take would tank what little value the company's stock has, and any investors they have would immediately pull out. It would likely just outright kill the company.

 


Little Orbit isn't a publicly traded company dude, what "stock" lmao?
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1 minute ago, indi said:

Little Orbit isn't a publicly traded company dude, what "stock" lmao?
^this^

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i can kill someone with 5 shots with the misery...leave this patch alone

Edited by Keshi
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Honestly. . . I'd get a heart attack if they did, but I'm not sure it'd be for the worse.

That being said, it'd require people who really knew what they were doing.

 

11 minutes ago, Keshi said:

i can kill someone with 5 shots of the misery...leave this patch alone

The Misery has literally always been 5-STK, and was totally usable before this buff.
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33 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

You do realize you can't just pull a reversion of that size like it's a simple matter of flipping a switch, right?
 

 
I'll take what is project management for $200, Alex. I've worked in software development for years, and if you don't back up and have dated builds in case something terrible happens, you're an absolute imbecile. Yes, it's not a trivial task to roll a game back, but it's by no means going to "tank the company financially", you're rolling back a game version, not developing it from scratch, if you have to redevelop the entire 2013 version of the game in order to roll back the game, yes it will cost money and then we can think about if it's financially worth it to roll the game back, but if this is not the case, it will cost far less than you're acting like it will. The other issue is just merging new guns into the 2013 version of the game because you can't just up and remove them now, but that's another thing. Edited by Similarities

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You don't bank your whole company on a game nearing 10 years old and on the brink of collapse. I'm sure the size of their investment in APB is not that large enough to ruin the company if it utterly fails.

Besides, I doubt "saving" the game is why they bought APB in the first place. They wanted to get into the battle royale space and they ran the risk of the fad being over by the time they finished if they had to develop something from scratch. Best thing to do is find an existing game you can get for cheap and develop it to your goal.

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14 minutes ago, Similarities said:
I'll take what is project management for $200, Alex. I've worked in software development for years, and if you don't back up and have dated builds in case something terrible happens, you're an absolute imbecile.
Yes, it's not a trivial task to roll a game back, but it's by no means going to "tank the company financially", you're rolling back a game version, not developing it from scratch.
If you have to redevelop the entire 2013 version of the game in order to roll back the game, yes it will cost money and then we can think about if it's financially worth it to roll the game back.
But if this is not the case, it will cost far less than you're acting like it will.
The other issue is just merging new guns into the 2013 version of the game because you can't just up and remove them now, but that's another thing.
Two things I ponder about on this :
1 did G1 keep backups from that far back to ahnd over to Little Orbit?
2 Wasn't the original programming before the changes G1 made far worse?

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I'm down. A lot of the changes from then have been incredibly unreasonable nerfs, were as things should have been balanced by buffs as well as nerfs. I've always hated how G1 never really buffed anything and just nerfed whatever was meta. It led to, well, this idea we have were everything will be fixed if we just 'nerf this one things into the ground'.

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I'll make a list of things that should be how the game is.

Shotguns : Needed more time to balance, live build needs shotgun buffs to be reverted (Showtopper is w/e, all the others need more time before pushed to live build)
IR3: Revert the change no one asked for that crippled every single marksman and many preset modded guns. This was a bad way to change how things were fine beforehand.
Ntec was fine Post-2015 changes.
Carbine was fine Post-2015 changes.
Revert ATAC to the 2014 stats prior to it's buff.
Revert RFP and all its variants to it's stats prior to the buff (Back in 2016 or w/e).
HVR is still kind of annoying but more negligible now, so keep the current version, with possible tweaks in the future.
Misery is fine.
Revert OCA to before it was buffed, literally no reason it should have been buffed in the first place.
Anubis is fine.
Oblivion is fine.
COBRA is really cool and I think it has an interesting place in the meta now.
Everything else I didn't list can stay as the live build.

This is just my two cents on what I think would be the most balanced you could get with all the weapons now, agree to agree or disagree to disagree.

Edited by Lucidy
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8 minutes ago, Lucidy said:

 


There is other things G1 changed beyond just weapon balance. There are mods that were added like Car Detonator, Radar Tower, and Car Spawner that devolves the meta into racing around in max HP Pioneers/Espacios that in my opinion should be straight up removed from the game all together.

Car Surfer and Low Yields (Yes, I am complaining about Low Yields despite me being a frequent abuser of them) are also imbalanced in my opinion, reducing the grenades to 2 or just removing them all together wouldn't have a negative impact on the game. Car Surfer is just a meme tbh.

 
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33 minutes ago, indi said:

There is other things G1 changed beyond just weapon balance. There are mods that were added like Car Detonator, Radar Tower, and Car Spawner that devolves the meta into racing around in max HP Pioneers/Espacios that in my opinion should be straight up removed from the game all together.

Car Surfer and Low Yields (Yes, I am complaining about Low Yields despite me being a frequent abuser of them) are also imbalanced in my opinion, reducing the grenades to 2 or just removing them all together wouldn't have a negative impact on the game. Car Surfer is just a meme tbh.

 

I would rather have the 'new' mods changed rather than removed. Things weren't all sunshine and rainbows before their introduction either. Pioneers were still used heavily (im looking at you Armas Pio) and arguably harder to deal with.

> CAR SPAWNER: Disable the ability to spawn if the vehicle is moving with the possibility to counteract this if you use muffler
> CAR SURFER: Make this an activation blue mod (we'd need another keybind). Ride on top of vehicles for x seconds (10 sounds good) with a x minute cooldown (1-2 seems right)
> REMOTE DETONATOR: Give it a longer cooldown and/or make it also increase brick's cooldown.
> BLOW TORCH: Reduced the usage time by half. If used while car surfing or while hanging out of a window, reduce the effectiveness by 25-50%
> LOW YIELDS: Increase their resupply time by 50-100%. Reduce their number to 2 but if you use flak jacket, they dont get their number reduced (2 instead of 1).
> RADAR TOWER: Pretty balanced imo. Keep it as is
> YELLOW MODS: Just make them permanent already
> BOOM BOX: Make this useful by making it an AoE anti-radar tower / anti-car spawner deployable. Or make it a 'decoy' object (makes random gunfire noises).
> MED SPRAY / MOBILE COVER / RESUPPLY BOX (both) / EPINEPHRINE INJECTOR / SATCHEL CHARGE: These all feel pretty balanced as-is. Maybe add a despawn timer to deployables

> VEHICLES: Give different vehicles bonuses/penalties to certain mods.
      Some examples:
                               Mikro gets a range bonus to radar tower but a penalty to car spawner
                               Pioneer gets a bonus to fast fix but a reduced effectiveness penalty to steel plating
                               Kurai gets a bonus to steel plating (mod penalty reduction perhaps) but a penalty to fireproofing


@Nanometic @mynd @Abduct / Devote @indi @Tobii @Dopefish -- Thoughts?
  Edited by Triksterism
The colors Duke, the colors!
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23 minutes ago, Triksterism said:

I would rather have the 'new' mods changed rather than removed. Things weren't all sunshine and rainbows before their introduction either. Pioneers were still used heavily (im looking at you Armas Pio) and arguably harder to deal with.

~snip~

@Nanometic @mynd @Abduct / Devote @indi @Tobii @Dopefish -- Thoughts?
 
> CAR SPAWNER: Disable the ability to spawn if the vehicle is moving with the possibility to counteract this if you use muffler
     I think this is a good idea but I think making all blue car mods give a minus to trunk slots is a quicker, simpler fix imo

> CAR SURFER: Make this an activation blue mod (we'd need another keybind). Ride on top of vehicles for x seconds (10 sounds good) with a x minute cooldown (1-2 seems right)
     I do think car surfer needs a downside/nerf, I dunno about this one though, seems a tad harsh, maybe make the user less accurate(I mean come on, they're shooting on a moving car)

> REMOTE DETONATOR: Give it a longer cooldown and/or make it also increase brick's cooldown.
     Agree.

> BLOW TORCH: Reduced the usage time by half. If used while car surfing or while hanging out of a window, reduce the effectiveness by 25-50%
     Agree.

> LOW YIELDS: Increase their resupply time by 50-100%. Reduce their number to 2 but if you use flak jacket, they dont get their number reduced (2 instead of 1).
     Agree.

> RADAR TOWER: Pretty balanced imo. Keep it as is
     Same response to car spawner above.

> YELLOW MODS: Just make them permanent already
     Agree.

> BOOM BOX: Make this useful by making it an AoE anti-radar tower / anti-car spawner deployable. Or make it a 'decoy' object (makes random gunfire noises).
     Agree.

> MED SPRAY / MOBILE COVER / RESUPPLY BOX (both) / EPINEPHRINE INJECTOR / SATCHEL CHARGE: These all feel pretty balanced as-is. Maybe add a despawn timer to deployables
     Agree.


> VEHICLES: Give different vehicles bonuses/penalties to certain mods.
      Some examples:
                               Mikro gets a range bonus to radar tower but a penalty to car spawner
                               Pioneer gets a bonus to fast fix but a reduced effectiveness penalty to steel plating
                               Kurai gets a bonus to steel plating (mod penalty reduction perhaps) but a penalty to fireproofing
     Agree to an extent, I like it, but I don't want the game to become over complicated, its already quite complicated for new players to learn the game as is. Maybe instead give cars mod                         specialization? So for example make the Mikro a blue specialization, giving it a buff to all blue car mods, simpler change but no idea if it'd be broken or not.
 
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@Nanometic -- I appreciate your input and I agree with what you've said, especially about not making the game more complicated (for newer players). The cargo penalty is a quick-fix for sure but I feel like it would really fuck up heavy carry missions. Who ISNT going to run a blue mod in their car? Hell, the starter car (that now comes with a car spawner mod) has 5 slots of storage (enough for 1 heavy item). With the quick fix capacity penalty, this would leave new players in a bit of a bind.

Sure, you could just grab an NPC vehicle, providing there are any nearby but I feel like that isn't good to rely on.

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1 hour ago, indi said:

There is other things G1 changed beyond just weapon balance. There are mods that were added like Car Detonator, Radar Tower, and Car Spawner that devolves the meta into racing around in max HP Pioneers/Espacios that in my opinion should be straight up removed from the game all together.

Car Surfer and Low Yields (Yes, I am complaining about Low Yields despite me being a frequent abuser of them) are also imbalanced in my opinion, reducing the grenades to 2 or just removing them all together wouldn't have a negative impact on the game. Car Surfer is just a meme tbh.

 
Yeah I agree those need changes I'm just referring to weapons specifically

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22 minutes ago, Triksterism said:
@Nanometic -- I appreciate your input and I agree with what you've said, especially about not making the game more complicated (for newer players). The cargo penalty is a quick-fix for sure but I feel like it would really fuck up heavy carry missions. Who ISNT going to run a blue mod in their car? Hell, the starter car (that now comes with a car spawner mod) has 5 slots of storage (enough for 1 heavy item). With the quick fix capacity penalty, this would leave new players in a bit of a bind.

Sure, you could just grab an NPC vehicle, providing there are any nearby but I feel like that isn't good to rely on.
Yeah.. You're right. but,  the whole cars getting buffed with certain mods? Smaller cars, like the Calabria and the mikro wont receive a penalty for using blue mods but a buff to them instead. And on a pioneer running a blue mod with this penalty wont be much of a detriment.

Going back to this vehicle category/mod buff thing, you could separate the cars into groups like; tank, agility, ace((?) like the 4x4 vegas, just well rounded) then that group could correlate to which mods they have benefits and detriments from.

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i'm sure medicineman69 would agree with you, so i have to agree as well

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3 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:
Two things I ponder about on this :
1 did G1 keep backups from that far back to ahnd over to Little Orbit?
2 Wasn't the original programming before the changes G1 made far worse?
1. That's, unfortunately, nothing we know about. I wouldn't put it past G1 to hand over the most recent game build and go "here u go lol"
2. Debatable.

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1 hour ago, Triksterism said:
@Nanometic -- I appreciate your input and I agree with what you've said, especially about not making the game more complicated (for newer players). The cargo penalty is a quick-fix for sure but I feel like it would really fuck up heavy carry missions. Who ISNT going to run a blue mod in their car? Hell, the starter car (that now comes with a car spawner mod) has 5 slots of storage (enough for 1 heavy item). With the quick fix capacity penalty, this would leave new players in a bit of a bind.

Sure, you could just grab an NPC vehicle, providing there are any nearby but I feel like that isn't good to rely on.

all npc cars should have car spawner. never go looking for a car again.

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