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46 minutes ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

Another crybaby who cant stand shotguns? Add it to the pile lmao

I did not state my opinion on shotguns. I denied your claim of how shotguns work IRL. You should go to a range, or at the very least, watch one of the thousands of videos available.

 

Like this one: https://youtu.be/6PxLobmbXCk?t=100

 

The JG in APB has a spread of 1.5M at 10M. That video shows the spread being under 0.2M. I doubt there's 750% margin of error between various 12ga shotguns, but feel free to show proof if you have it.

 

The Shredder is closer, 0.45M spread at 10M. Still no where close to reality, but accounting for the oversized hitboxes it's more or less realistic. Can't judge damage though, we don't have HP IRL.

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23 hours ago, SquirrelFace said:

I did not state my opinion on shotguns. I denied your claim of how shotguns work IRL. You should go to a range, or at the very least, watch one of the thousands of videos available.

 

Like this one: https://youtu.be/6PxLobmbXCk?t=100

 

The JG in APB has a spread of 1.5M at 10M. That video shows the spread being under 0.2M. I doubt there's 750% margin of error between various 12ga shotguns, but feel free to show proof if you have it.

 

The Shredder is closer, 0.45M spread at 10M. Still no where close to reality, but accounting for the oversized hitboxes it's more or less realistic. Can't judge damage though, we don't have HP IRL.

please don't use IRL to compare to video game, ty

please LO revert all balance changes you have ever made, ty

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On 8/25/2021 at 1:28 AM, FakeBungo said:

please don't use IRL to compare to video game, ty

please LO revert all balance changes you have ever made, ty

Ironically, reverting all LO balance changes would increase the shotguns max range to more realistic values, and reduce the JG's spread.

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12 minutes ago, SquirrelFace said:

Ironically, reverting all LO balance changes would increase the shotguns max range to more realistic values, and reduce the JG's spread.

what did they do to shotgun? last time i used NFAS it was fucking useless or did they fix it (i doubt)

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2 minutes ago, FakeBungo said:

what did they do to shotgun? last time i used NFAS it was fucking useless or did they fix it (i doubt)

They reduced the NFAS damage so if a few pellets miss it becomes 4 shots instead of 3. They also reverted the damage scaling buff, which made the nfas more consistent.

 

You can check out all the differences between old.apbdb.com and apbdb.com.

 

JG - Increased damage, Increased spread, Increased rate of fire, Decreased range.
CSG - Increased damage, Decreased range.

NFAS - Decreased damage. Increased rate of fire.

 

http://old.apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_JG/

http://old.apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_CSG_Joker/

http://old.apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_NFAS/

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_JG

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_CSG_Joker

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_NFAS

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31 minutes ago, SquirrelFace said:

They reduced the NFAS damage so if a few pellets miss it becomes 4 shots instead of 3. They also reverted the damage scaling buff, which made the nfas more consistent.

 

You can check out all the differences between old.apbdb.com and apbdb.com.

 

JG - Increased damage, Increased spread, Increased rate of fire, Decreased range.
CSG - Increased damage, Decreased range.

NFAS - Decreased damage. Increased rate of fire.

 

http://old.apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_JG/

http://old.apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_CSG_Joker/

http://old.apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_NFAS/

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_JG

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_CSG_Joker

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_NFAS

so basically JG is dogshit without IR3, and they thought NFAS 3 shot kill was too op?

those are both shit changes

and csg is 9.5% more dmg but shorter range, for whatever non-sensical reason

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It's the servers, not their internet. With 20ms on NA east I see the same thing from the time to time.

 

Running /latencytest in game shows the server's tickrate constantly spiking over 200ms, with many smaller spikes over 50ms.

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20 hours ago, FakeBungo said:

-snip for childish ranting-

Shotguns place their hits randomly, loosely within a series of large squares arranged in a grid. That is the definition of RNG, and it completely negates player skill. The guns are literally rolling dice for potentially doing enough damage to retain the 2-shot potential, because if the RNG screws you to force a third shot, you're just fucked.

 

Rayscaling ensured 2-shot for good aim. The only problem was that the stat values were scaled a bit too high, which could've been easily fixed by simply lowering the values slightly in a followup balance pass (or few, depending). There was no need to completely revert / remove the system like the NTEC kiddies screamed with frothing mouths for.

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6 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Shotguns place their hits randomly, loosely within a series of large squares arranged in a grid. That is the definition of RNG, and it completely negates player skill. The guns are literally rolling dice for potentially doing enough damage to retain the 2-shot potential, because if the RNG screws you to force a third shot, you're just fucked.

 

Rayscaling ensured 2-shot for good aim. The only problem was that the stat values were scaled a bit too high, which could've been easily fixed by simply lowering the values slightly in a followup balance pass (or few, depending). There was no need to completely revert / remove the system like the NTEC kiddies screamed with frothing mouths for.

rayscaling only "solved" shotgun rng by making even partial shots do so much damage that rng was effectively bypassed, it was nearly impossible to land shotgun pellets and not do 500+ health damage

 

if damage is lowered so that 500+ guarantee goes away then shotguns go right back to "maybe you landed enough pellets for a 2stk, maybe you didn't" rng hell

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16 hours ago, glaciers said:

rayscaling only "solved" shotgun rng by making even partial shots do so much damage that rng was effectively bypassed, it was nearly impossible to land shotgun pellets and not do 500+ health damage if damage is lowered so that 500+ guarantee goes away then shotguns go right back to "maybe you landed enough pellets for a 2stk, maybe you didn't" rng hell

22 hours ago, Hexerin said:

The only problem was that the stat values were scaled a bit too high, which could've been easily fixed by simply lowering the values slightly in a followup balance pass (or few, depending).

You should try reading what you're quoting before posting. I already addressed your complaint in the very post you quoted.

Edited by Hexerin

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We've had to remove several posts from this thread for stepping over the line. We're aware that weapon balance is always a touchy subject, however, please remember that regardless of how you feel about these changes, the forum rules continue to apply. Please keep any further discussions civil and on topic from here on.

 

- Spuzva

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19 hours ago, Hexerin said:

The only problem was that the stat values were scaled a bit too high, which could've been easily fixed by simply lowering the values slightly in a followup balance pass (or few, depending).

On 8/29/2021 at 2:52 AM, glaciers said:

if damage is lowered so that 500+ guarantee goes away then shotguns go right back to "maybe you landed enough pellets for a 2stk, maybe you didn't" rng hell

it doesn't matter how you scale back the damage, either rayscaling guarantees a 2stk and is way too strong or it doesn't guarantee a 2stk and shotguns still rely on rng for min ttk

 

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On 8/18/2021 at 7:07 PM, Nerima said:

So I assume this gun's name now refers to its damage, right?

 

 N3bdu8EQzcA.jpg?size=693x286&quality=96&

 

 

Rename it: Obeya CR762 "Silvermaker"

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1 hour ago, glaciers said:

it doesn't matter how you scale back the damage, either rayscaling guarantees a 2stk and is way too strong or it doesn't guarantee a 2stk and shotguns still rely on rng for min ttk

 

I don't get why they bothered with rayscaling. I guess they needed to use their stupid curve algorithm again.

 

I would tighten spread and reduced damage slightly. If that wasn't consistent enough, increase minimum damage percentage or increased minimum damage range. Good aim up close would always be a 2 shot kill, while bad aim and mid range will require more.

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36 minutes ago, SquirrelFace said:

I would tighten spread and reduced damage slightly. If that wasn't consistent enough, increase minimum damage percentage or increased minimum damage range. Good aim up close would always be a 2 shot kill, while bad aim and mid range will require more.

Are we talking about JG? The fact we have CSG and JG that are both rather similar guns creates issues with how to make them feel different. Not saying I personally care if they feel the same I just think that's the line of reasoning that the current JG iteration is based on. Shotguns are a mess atm, only one out of any that feels balanced to me is the CSG. 

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5 hours ago, glaciers said:

it doesn't matter how you scale back the damage, either rayscaling guarantees a 2stk and is way too strong or it doesn't guarantee a 2stk and shotguns still rely on rng for min ttk

Did you even think about what you typed out before posting it? Shotguns aren't an "all or nothing" gun like the rest, where you have only one damage value.

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17 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Did you even think about what you typed out before posting it? Shotguns aren't an "all or nothing" gun like the rest, where you have only one damage value.

wait a minute are you suggesting that shotguns require me to actually aim at the centre of the enemy so that the entire spread hits them? thats not fair, thats rng because i just randomly flick my mouse around and pray that my shots land, the game should just aim for me. im going to do the rational thing just as SPCT members do and install a program to aim for me. until this game removes rng and makes my shots 100% guaranteed to deal 100% damage 100% of the time, i am boycotting aiming and will use robots to avoid this RNG non sense that is ruining apb.

 

Merged.

 

22 hours ago, glaciers said:

it doesn't matter how you scale back the damage, either rayscaling guarantees a 2stk and is way too strong or it doesn't guarantee a 2stk and shotguns still rely on rng for min ttk

 

or they could just revert the downgrades they made to the servers so that the game actually registered shots in the first place. pre-LO i was able to 2 shot kill with JG or CSG the vast majority of the time, so this is a learn to play issue and u are probably silver.

 

Merged.

 

20 hours ago, Acornie said:

Are we talking about JG? The fact we have CSG and JG that are both rather similar guns creates issues with how to make them feel different. Not saying I personally care if they feel the same I just think that's the line of reasoning that the current JG iteration is based on. Shotguns are a mess atm, only one out of any that feels balanced to me is the CSG. 

JG has increased damage but bigger spread

CSG has less damage but tighter spread

😄

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15 hours ago, largeAPBgamer said:

JG has increased damage but bigger spread

CSG has less damage but tighter spread

Y-yes, that part is obvious if you know how those two work, they are very similar still and your suggestion to "tighten spread and reduced damage slightly" would put them even closer... that was my point. That could well be the only logical option to bring the JG to a better state; but one could still argue the guns should find a way to feel different from one another
 

Edited by Acornie

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21 hours ago, Acornie said:

Y-yes, that part is obvious if you know how those two work, they are very similar still and your suggestion to "tighten spread and reduced damage slightly" would put them even closer... that was my point. That could well be the only logical option to bring the JG to a better state; but one could still argue the guns should find a way to feel different from one another
 

nothing is wrong with the JG. and by JG i mean pre-Little Orbit JG, because I don't care to stay up to date with LO's shitty balance changes.

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