@LittleOrbit Scroll Wheel Shooting

[Percocet 194]

Yea lets have a bunch of idiot volunteer gms spamming staff for macros and hacks when they are using neither you ham sandwich, gms dont need game knowledge or anything amirigh.

 

Matth for dumbest post 2018

Edited June 16, 2018 by Percocet

[Percocet 194]

Fix your double posting forums

Edited June 16, 2018 by Percocet

[CookiePuss 5356]

5 minutes ago, Percocet said:

Yea lets have a bunch of idiot volunteer gms spamming staff for macros and hacks when they are using neither you ham sandwich

Wouldnt LO just remove them as GM?

[SelttikS 223]

13 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Wouldnt LO just remove them as GM?

That takes time and resources though. We have less than a month on the new track and had an issue with one already. Who knows how this will all go. Just don't spend money till you think it is worth it.

 

also on topic, scroll wheel shooting no one should care about it. most the time it is an excuse script kiddies use to cover for their trigger bot or macros anyways.

[Matth 12]

38 minutes ago, Percocet said:

Yea lets have a bunch of idiot volunteer gms spamming staff for macros and hacks when they are using neither you ham sandwich, gms dont need game knowledge or anything amirigh.

 

Matth for dumbest post 2018

You don't make any sense, there's a difference between game knowledge and being good at the game's mechanics. Not being able to min ttk everyone with carbine doesn't mean you can't volunteer as GM. 

 

[demonoid 16]

I don't really see the problem, when anyone can just open their options in game and rebind however they want. It just comes down to preference. With all the different peripheral hardware and software we have access to nowadays I think it's a moot point anyway. People are just going to do what works for them. Saying scroll wheels or mouse/keyboard macros should be banned or blocked. Is the same as saying automatic transmissions should be barred at drag races. It's just individual perferences at the end of the day, and technology is only going to move forward.

 

What works for one person isn't always going to work for the next. That also starts to wander into the territory of "am I going to be banned simply for the hardware I'm using." It's an age old argument that's been brought up multiple times in the past. So long as they're not blatantly breaking the rules, if someone wants to play differently that's their choice. I tried mouse/keyboard macros in he past and in my case it just made me worse, and caused a lot of ghost shots on my client. So I just stick to classic click to shoot, and thats my preferred style. If someone else wants to use their scroll wheels, a macro, or a pencil rubber banded to an eraser, it won't bother me one bit.

 

So long as someone isn't downloading cheat software to gain a distinct advantage. I'd say use the hardware at your disposal as you see fit. We all play to a different rhythm.

[Chinook 140]

If you use a free-spinning scroll wheel to "spam fire" a weapon, you'll end up with a lot of ghost shots that don't register on the server but do happen on your client because of latency and whatnot. And while it's easy to "spam" your shots when scrollwheeling with any kind of mousewheel, pushing for the maximum ROF is a tradeoff with ability to time the shots and you'll propably miss a lot of shots unless your tracking is always 100%.

 

I just use my finger and click the button. It's relatively easy to spam mouse1 too fast for most guns in APB and spray the bullets everywhere, but much more difficult to keep the correct rhytm to achieve max rof while simultaineously staying on the target.

 

A macro that always keeps the max firerate perfectly is a whole another deal and not something that can be directly compared to using mousewheel.

[CookiePuss 5356]

56 minutes ago, SelttikS said:

That takes time and resources though. We have less than a month on the new track and had an issue with one already.

Yeah and they removed that GM immediately. 

 

[SelttikS 223]

10 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Yeah and they removed that GM immediately. 

 

After a mild debate about it even being a GM and stating that it was just lag and ddos. That was all resources spent. also yeah scrollwheels how bout those eh? gonna get me a 15 in scrollwheel so i can pwn some noobs or something idk.

[neophobia 215]

On 6/13/2018 at 3:51 PM, Thial said:

the point is that lets say some gun can fire a shot every 300 milliseconds. Let's say you fired 3 shots. 1st one 0ms delay, 2nd 368ms delay, 3rd 349ms delay where scroll wheel fires 1st 0ms, 2nd 300ms, 3rd 300ms so while naturally the player's ttk would be 717ms with scroll wheel it would be 600ms. You wouldn't be able to achieve that naturally that's why it's cheating imo.

You could though. Why not? The human reaction time + muscle memory should be capable of getting results very close to it - and it's not like you get it with the mousewheel every time anyway unless you really spam it (because it doesn't even go THAT fast), and then you'd mess up everything else.

Right?

It's not as viable as you claim.

Well, to be fair, I've never tried after I've done it when I was new to the game - thus I have no idea how much it actually helps. Just thinking about rate the mousewheel clicks + the weapon can be shot makes me believe you need to spin it very fast to get matching cycles - and that you can get the same result not much more effort when just clicking. I feel you are being way too nitpicky and stubborn about this.

It just makes it a bit more easier in some cases. But this is like complaining that people with red switches need less actuation force than blacks and thus can click faster. It's more of a matter of personal preference to me. If you played with a trigger, instead of a button, you could just spam it more too. If you have mousebuttons with better rebound, you could spam it more too - etc pp.

Edited June 16, 2018 by neophobia

[CookiePuss 5356]

29 minutes ago, SelttikS said:

That was all resources spent. 

Well yeah. Dont we want them looking after GMs whether employee or volunteer?

Or dont you want GMs at all?

 

Honestly just get you a free spinning scrollwheel and grab an OSCAR.  You'll be at scrollwheel 15 in no time. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by CookiePuss

[Letter 25]

This discussion reminds me of similar topics on FPShooter forums where they explain how third person view is a cheat and should be banned/forbidden because they don't know how to use it properly and don't want to adapt.

 

And thanks for the info about mouse wheel shooting! I hate LMB shooting because it makes aiming nearly impossible - especially combined with recoil, bloom, jumping, running and other "advantages" of APB aiming.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Letter

[Desmila 13]

IMHO - Scroll wheel shooting absolutely sucks, it makes your aim (depending on the mouse) to become a lot more shakier, you stress the wheel far more than should do which reduces its lifespan, and it's STILL not the "Perfect" fire rate that you can get out of an actual Macro; Macros would absolutely destroy Scroll Wheel in terms of consistency, the fact that we have APB DB to show us the exact fire interval means we can set the timing to be perfect or have a little bit of "leeway" for the response of the software from macro.

 

If you learn the actual fire pattern of the weapon yourself by learning to tap within the interval, you'll not only enjoy the gameplay far more as you feel more skilled for being able to pull it off, but you will also start to fire in almost perfect succession all the time. Personally, Scroll wheel shooting is for noobs, I did it to try and learn the gun and also try to be pro but it made me worse so I though it's better to learn the fire pattern itself.

 

TLDR - Scroll wheel sucks, doesn't need ban.

[Thial 176]

A lot of the newest mice come with the "free spin" feature where the wheel just spins and spins and spins once you spin it once. So if we imagine a situation where someone mains an OSCAR I really don't see how it's a downside that you use your wheel. You actually get a huge boost in your rate of fire and you are 100% consistent with it at all times and you actually abuse a very strong weapon to its limits. With free spinning wheel you completely skip the need to learn any fire rate, learn how to click consistently etc. You just spin it once and let it spin and focus on tracking. And with all respect to people saying that oh with enough muscle memory you can push your fire rate to perfect. No you can't. Even if you can get really close, a wheel will always out ttk you. If you think different you clearly never used it properly / never played against good wheel user. The wheel user will be always 100% consistent with every single shot in every single battle. All he needs to do is get that wheel spinning.

And this is btw what I'm talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgMDZrYOuMM

Edited June 18, 2018 by Thial

[Crunk 88]

is it considered cheating that i use the trigger on an xbox controller with my foot, and my mouse button at the same time to achieve faster rate of fire?

[Laughter 2]

Ok. I use the carbine a lot and I usually jam once in a mag if that. If I were to switch to scroll wheel the gun would be completely unreliable. What semi auto guns does scroll wheeling really benefit? You can't fire at the perfect RoF with scroll wheel because it relies on spamming the click. It's a dumb tactic and anyone who uses it is using a really unreliable gun and can't click.

 

Edit: You can't shoot at range at all with the carbine anyways using scroll wheel, because 90% of the time I use carbine I intentionally don't max RoF it. It's useless because you limit yourself to cqc. Same with FBW, you don't wanna max RoF it if you can, it'll just bloom too much.

 

Also, I used to macro the carbine but it's really bad. It's not reliable at all.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Laughter
Adding more information

[Thial 176]

7 minutes ago, Laughter said:

Ok. I use the carbine a lot and I usually jam once in a mag if that. If I were to switch to scroll wheel the gun would be completely unreliable. What semi auto guns does scroll wheeling really benefit? You can't fire at the perfect RoF with scroll wheel because it relies on spamming the click. It's a dumb tactic and anyone who uses it is using a really unreliable gun and can't click.

With a good mouse you can execute thousands of clicks per minute by using the scroll wheel, especially with "free spin" feature. You will achieve perfect rate of fire every single time.

 

I really don't understand arguments like, oh you can't use scroll wheel because weapons bloom too much. ??????????? Every weapon has it's effective range and bloom. It's not wheel's fault if you fail to understand those mechanics and don't use the guns at proper circumstances. You need to max RoF with both your examples (carbine and fbw) btw. Just a quick tip.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Thial

[Sniperturtle 64]

I don't even understand how you can aim while scrolling your wheel like a maniac...

[Thial 176]

14 minutes ago, Sniperturtle said:

I don't even understand how you can aim while scrolling your wheel like a maniac...

Same way how you didn't know how to play a guitar for example. Practice. After some time it becomes very natural and easy to perform.

[Sniperturtle 64]

11 minutes ago, Thial said:

Same way how you didn't know how to play a guitar for example. Practice. After some time it becomes very natural and easy to perform.

Well, i just tested it in game. It's a major handicap yielding a minor (nano actually) improvement in the RoF - most notably with the Oscar. Of course this didn't take a free scrolling mouse into account, but if you manage to play like this... you earned your kills just as well as any HVR quickswitcher imho.

[Thial 176]

5 minutes ago, Sniperturtle said:

Well, i just tested it in game. It's a major handicap yielding a minor (nano actually) improvement in the RoF - most notably with the Oscar. Of course this didn't take a free scrolling mouse into account, but if you manage to play like this... you earned your kills just as well as any HVR quickswitcher imho.

With free spin you only need to scroll your wheel once per every battle since the wheel can spin even up to 15 seconds by itself and literally spams probably more than 1k clicks in that short time span so you definitely have the fastest possible ttk every single time. And while the wheel spins by itself you can fully focus on just tracking your opponent. There's nothing tricky about it unlike normal scrolling.

Linking the video again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgMDZrYOuMM

[vsb 6131]

2 minutes ago, Thial said:

With free spin you only need to scroll your wheel once per every battle since the wheel can spin even up to 15 seconds by itself and literally spams probably more than 1k clicks in that short time span so you definitely have the fastest possible ttk every single time. And while the wheel spins by itself you can fully focus on just tracking your opponent. There's nothing tricky about it unlike normal scrolling.

Linking the video again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgMDZrYOuMM

yeah but using a free scroll also destroys any chance of regulating your rof

[Thial 176]

2 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

yeah but using a free scroll also destroys any chance of regulating your rof

who needs that with oscar lul

or pretty much any semi auto at cqc

Edited June 18, 2018 by Thial

[vsb 6131]

24 minutes ago, Thial said:

who needs that with oscar lul

or pretty much any semi auto at cqc

well sure in cqc you can spam as much as you want

 

but you still aren’t going to bypass the actual rof of the gun

[Thial 176]

8 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

well sure in cqc you can spam as much as you want

 

but you still aren’t going to bypass the actual rof of the gun

Nope you won't bypass anything but the point is that you won't be able to achieve those shots which are perfectly spaced out by let's say 200ms by clicking LMB which scroll wheel can do for you. No matter how good you are you will never be able to click perfectly every 200ms for example and even if there's just let's say 50ms difference between your ttk and wheeler's ttk the wheel user will win every time therefore gaining an advantage over you since he will always have the top top best possible ttk and he will be 100% consistent with it every time which is not possible if you play normally, you will always be making tiny mistakes with every click unless you are a cyborg. That's why it's an issue imo. Maybe I phrased it wrong and it's not as bad as "cheating" but it's definitely an unwanted exploit which many people are abusing.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Thial