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Vent/Rant/Whatever about what's killing the game.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Mitne said:

What the hell fur?

I would even agree on few points but your "experinces" are simply lies.

So you talked with every single one? Including me? Including people like I dunno... Mooke? And they admitted it? Screenshots of me saying that I actively cheated and I was banned for it. Same goes for Mooke.

Bland lie and you know it.

 

 

This two statements are contradicting each other. Proven by history of this game as well.

You've been here since 2012 right? Did you skipped FFBans.org? Take glance at that bygone era. Even look up my ban.

People were banned under suspicious circumstances and what it did? Glorifed cheaters and shamed people who were legit. What a wonderful system that was.

But hey, it worked... whatever the cost!

So, "Almost every single person I've talked to who had their ban reversed, has admitted that at one point they cheated. Every single one."

That wasn't exactly very clear in what I was trying to get across. What I should've said, was that every single person that I've talked to, who I knew had a ban with FairFight and had discussed with the person what the ban was for, had down the line, admitted to wrongdoing at one point or another. Clearly there are people I've talked to over time who I was not aware had bans with that anti-cheat, therefore invalidating what I'd previously stated. Now, obviously that's not fair, and that's my own stupidity. My point had been, that judging the statistics by who I'd actually discussed a persons bans with, more than just in passing, they'd all wound up admitting wrong-doing either prior to FF, or even post FF.

 

Edit: "admitted to wrongdoing at one point or another" Basically, not limited to just cheats, could be RMT, could be banned for anything else that was an actually bannable offense

 

That's my fuck up, sorry.

Edited by your-username-is-not-suitable

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On 7/23/2019 at 5:20 AM, your-username-is-not-suitable said:

It's likely I won't reply, I barely log into the forums to begin with. I don't mind if the community agrees or disagrees, as this is mostly opinion based with some facts sprinkled here and there.

 

I'm adding this chunk up here after I typed everything out, exhausted now I might not know everything about everything, and I might not be the smartest person in the community, but as a player, and a gamer, someone who knows games, and has seen countless fail and dwindle away after once being sustainable, I felt like venting somewhere, and I was also sick and tired of the game disconnecting me with Error/Disconnected. Yeah, that's a real helpful error code to send to the support staff in resolving the fucking issue causing it. That gets discussed a bit more here too.

 

Lets start with a little backstory first. I'm a no name who's played on and off since about 2012. I've played for a few years at a time, quit for a few years at a time, and for some reason always come back. Well, I recently came back, maybe a month or two before Valentines day. Now, I played enough to know what was wrong with the game, what wasn't, and why certain things were the way they were. For example, my main games allowed weapon purchases with in game funds for permanent ownership, I understood that their monetization model allowed for that. As for APB, I noticed the weapons were leases, and I quickly noticed that the monetization model, also, allowed for that, and was designed around that, and worked. That's not why this game is dying.

 

This game is dying for various reasons, many things just adding to the pile of old things that never really got addressed or were overlooked. First, I noticed that within a week of my return to the game, we were still suffering from server problems and what not on the NA side of things, okay, so that hasn't changed, no surprise honestly. I'll admit, as of recently that's actually not the case, the servers have been 'mostly' stable, I say 'mostly' because there are still random disconnects that happen, for no reason known to me. I came back, and had no idea LO had even acquired G1, everything was exactly the same as I had left the game, except maybe for some new skins, and shotguns feeling different than they had used to. It took people informing me that the game had been purchased by a new company, and that they actually cared! I was like, that's a great joke, but you're full of shit. Well, turns out, LO was indeed real and it wasn't an entirely wrong statement from those people.

 

This is where it gets a little bit ranty. One of the first things I found out, after being told that shotguns had been rebalanced, and were overall in a worse state than previously, was that there had been a reversal of any FairFight ban that wasn't for scamming or fraud. Well, that's already put this new company into a negative light right there, this game had enough cheating problems to begin with, but hey maybe that's just a one off thing and they probably had a reason right? I still have yet to figure out that reason. Almost every single person I've talked to who had their ban reversed, has admitted that at one point they cheated. Every single one. Doesn't seem like those people needed to come back, right? I'm sure a large majority of people would agree, if someone wasn't wrongfully banned, they shouldn't be unbanned, right? This is a large amount of people I'm talking about too, not just 3 randoms I talked to and they were like, oh yeah blah blah blah. No, this is maybe upwards of 20 people, I talk a lot okay? I'm also good at figuring shit out too, relating to people, personalities, information. Information is key. See, until the person has admitted they cheated, I look at them as having been banned wrongfully. Now, when I get them to actually admit, without even prodding, asking, just through casual conversation, everything starts to fall into place. As for me, I have yet to meet someone who was unbanned by this wave, who was wrongfully banned, or who hadn't cheated in the past. There's also the matter of there are still cheaters present in the game, bypasses are readily available, all that stuff is easy to find.

 

Now, here comes the stability of the overall game itself, this is trying to leave the server issues out of it, one, they're pretty fine now anyways. Okay, so, what 5 or so months and I get my first good thing. Okay, so they've done something positive, finally, maybe I came back at a bad time right? Stable servers don't mean anything, if the game client itself is just as unstable as those servers had been prior to rectification. What good are stable servers, if the game client itself is going to crash to desktop, lock up, or randomly disconnect and boot someone to the login screen. Now, I'm aware of the /latencytest command, and I've been using this quite a bit, any little hiccup, I use it, I want LO to have as much data as they need to fix this right? Diagnostic tools exist for reasons, data is sent from users to the providers so they can comb through and find inconsistency, and work towards fixing something. I'm glad they've added this command. I'm glad there exists a tool for crashes as well, I send the report every time it crashes. The one small problem with this though, is there is no way to predict when the game is going to disconnect and boot a user to the login screen. Sadly, that means the latencytest command will not work in this situation, unless by chance the test had been running when the disconnect occurs. As far as I'm aware, no diagnostic data is recorded when disconnecting in such a manner, and since it is not a crash, there is no use in the diagnostic tool, which is meant for crashes anyways, not disconnects. The problem is that the disconnecting to the login screen has been consistent and continuous since I've come back, and I'm not the only one with that problem. APB is the only game I experience this in, process of elimination tells me it's unlikely to be on my end. If I were a new player, and I'd tried 2 games I was interested in, and liked both just as much, and had to choose one that didn't disconnect during missions, didn't crash, or one that worked fine, was harder to play, ran a little slower, but was overall stable without causing a loss in progress and in game rewards, I'd pick the more stable one that wasn't crashing. There's nothing more irritating than doing good in a missions for once, in your first half hour or playing for the day, and getting kicked to the lobby, with no way to get a little dopamine high and say, well I sent something useful to the devs so they can fix it. latency test after the fact is pointless, the error has already happened.

 

Speaking of doing well in missions, that's a mixed bag for some people, and a straight up easy thing for others. This game has a much larger skill gap than most games, there are many things that the average player would take years to learn, and perfect. This is not an easy game, it's not a game you can just jump into and expect to be fine, like most games out there are. There is nothing inherently wrong with this, in fact I would argue that it's a positive thing, and more games should be like this. There's nothing better than being rewarded with improvement in ones self, especially relating to in game performance, performance being how well you know the mechanics, the split second decisions you make that decide the outcome for the round, or for the entire mission. Running one way instead of another, knowing the other way will be watched, or naded. or whatever. This game is really good, really really good, at making people have to learn new things as they progress, over weeks, months, and years. The problem here honestly stems from the low population we're experiencing right now. There is such a low pool of players, with a large majority of that pool being players who are long time veterans, who have invested thousands, literal thousands of hours into honing their skillsets and making themselves the best they can be, that the matchmaking system would have a difficult time perfectly matching every game, with other factors mixing in as well, like who's currently in a mission, who's currently ready, is this person marked as afk. It's a fact that more often than not, there will be large imbalance between matches. This isn't exactly the fault of LO, this is a byproduct of the games population having dipped so far. However, there are also things that have led to this decline, things that haven't been done to sustain growth within the playerbase. This isn't something that can be fixed on the current iteration of the game, I'm fully aware of this, rebuilding the matchmaking system would be hard given the current state of the game. If I had my way, from the get-go the matchmaking would take into account total account playtime, and factor that into whether the match is ideal. This isn't going to be the case pre-engine upgrade. What can be fixed though, are the players that abuse this type of problem, who know that the threat system is an inherently broken system and find ways to beat it, and cause the gap between skill levels in matches to be even higher than it already is. There should be no excuse what so ever for highly skilled players, who know exactly what they're doing, to be going into areas intended for players who haven't had enough time with the game, intended for those newer players to learn how the game functions and how things work, how guns work, how objectives work, why this happens instead of that, etc. Because of the large learning curve this game has, there is no saying 'well just git gud' that doesn't work here. You won't 'git gud' if you're not given time to learn why this person is instant killing you, why they seem to know where you spawn. New players who experience these types of people likely think they cheat, when in reality, they're just good at the game, and abusing a broken system to fight fresh players. That's never going to sustain growth, not in this game. Other games with lower skill curves, sure, that's not a problem. This game isn't those games.

 

Cheats, well, we all know they exist, we all know who we think does and doesn't cheat. We all have our own opinions about whether someone is or isn't cheating, whether they have or haven't cheated. This would be easily cleared up with the returning of ban broadcasting throughout districts. Considering this has been worsened by the mass unbanning, which I know my opinion of isn't favorable to a majority of people. I'm sure a large portion are going to read the first bit about what is in my head about the unbans, and stop reading, dislike the post, and move on, or leave a comment expressing their disdain for my existence. The thing here, which I am also guilty of myself, is there is such little knowledge of whether the anti-cheat(s) have done, or are doing their jobs, mixed with the previous matchmaking and skill gap issues, that it leads to a very high rate of hackusations, and a very high rate of people being labeled as cheaters who shouldn't, people taking no second judgement and instantly assuming someone is cheating. Like I said, I'm guilty of this, there are people I've thrown under the bus as cheaters, and refused to believe anything else. A large portion of this problem is the fact there is no real evidence of the anti-cheat solutions working, sure, we know they're there, we know that it's not a fake non-existent solution. From personal experience, mixed with psychology, friends are more likely to defend friends in situations whether or not the friend is in the right or wrong. Members of the same team are more likely to defend their team mates, members of the same organization defend each other. There's always a common ground, there's something in common between people, the team colors, the flags, the factions, clans, whatever it may be. I've noticed this applies to APB, really, really applies to APB. The way I've come to notice this, is it's mainly between clans, and factions, and of course friends. Friends will in most cases always defend friends, even if they don't know what's actually going on. A majority of the hackusations I've seen, and a majority of rumors I've heard spread around, have been from opposite sides. I more often than not see hackusations from one faction, made towards members of the opposite. Obviously, that's easier, you play against the opposite faction, you spend more time paying attention to how the enemy plays, that's what wins the game. I'm guilty of this myself, I've defended people I know nothing about, never talked to, because they were on my side, doing well, yet I myself didn't know whether they may or may have not been cheating. I've also hackusated people, simply because they were out performing me, and likely because the matchmaking doesn't have a good enough variety in the pool of players. I've got less than a thousand hours, and most people I wind up blindly hackusating end up having in the neighborhood of three thousand, and more hours. More than 3 times the time with the game than me. Rumors, and the nature of people and how that nature applies in this game, make it really easy to look at someone and say, I've heard about them, and they're killing me 10 times to me killing them 1 time, they must be cheating. This isn't a LO problem, this is a community problem, compounded with the lack of satisfaction that the anti-cheat is doing anything. Broadcasting bans was less toxic than breeding internal hatred towards one another based off of nothing. One of the first changes with the anti-cheat I'd make, is re-enabling global broadcasting of bans. I'd also mark anyone who had been banned, on the same hardware IDs with some type of icon, so that people know this person had been banned, and a tooltip for the icon saying what the ban was for. Obviously making a new account after a ban is against the ToS, does that stop anyone? No, does that get looked into? No, that takes too much manpower and time. Hell, there could be even a way to redeem oneself by allowing the tooltip to be a different color if the person has showed genuine traits of being an asset to the community post-ban, helping new players by explaining how things work, I don't fuckin know, just, something better than the way this shit is now. Broadcast bans again.

 

Content, it's no surprise to anyone that the newest batch wasn't what many people had hoped for, or expected. This has been discussed and shown publicly by Matt Scott himself, with the statistics for RIOT. This shows even more in the playercounts currently for the mode. When was the last time anyone got a match on NA? Overall, this showed me that LO actually tried, maybe not their hardest, but they tried. They tried the wrong way though. There wasn't enough research into what the community enjoys and doesn't enjoy. This game is based entirely around objective based matches. Even the large scale mode prior to RIOT, fightclub, is based around objectives. I'm not saying RIOT isn't based around objectives, but, RIOT doesn't fit in with the mix here. A large amount of people with the announcement of what RIOT would actually be, stated, that if they wanted to play a battle royale game, they would go play a battle royale game. The industry has moved on from making battle royale MODES, to making battle royale GAMES. When making battle royale as a GAME, the entire game can be built around that, balanced around that. It doesn't work very well the other way around in most cases, as the pre-existing game has been built up and designed around what that game was supposed to be. Trying to tack on a battle royale game mode causes more work, and trouble, as things are already balanced for the game that exists already, things already work certain ways for a reason. This was proven when there were bugs where weapons were dropping from players in modes outside of RIOT. I am aware that Matt has stated that this mode was so that the team can learn the ins and outs of the game and mechanics and what not, but this was a burn on the community as a whole. The game has gone a long time without meaningful content, and people had been expecting something that they were never going to get, and that's not good. If this was indeed true, and the mode was simply for the development team to familiarize themselves with the code and how the game works and how objectives work, etc, why not have done this internally, on a separate build of the game. Hyping up a community is only good, when the deliverance at the end of the hype is good, and leads to people trying to bring in others to the game. When the community greatly rejects what's delivered, it only leads to lower morale for the playerbase, and leads to the vocal members, and the members with influence, to tell people that it wasn't a good launch. It spreads further negativity, articles aren't posted about flops either. There was an article when the mode was announced, by a somewhat popular website, who first of all had mis information and tried to say APB was getting a run of the mill battle royale mode, which, isn't exactly accurate. In the future, I would hope more about the game and the players is understood, and a better motive than just a testing ground, is behind what is released content wise.

Most of your complaints have been addressed in posts from the past, and the other stuff is just opinionated suggestions that have already been denied, like bringing back the name and shame system, which was always childish and toxic. Most cheaters have a goal of getting more people to fuzzy bunny about them, to hate them, to avoid them at all costs. If you keep announcing that the same player who keeps cheating and getting banned, has been banned for the 800th time, you're giving the degenerate a sense of pride for consistently ruining the game while having a face when doing so.

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Lack of content and game health.

 

Or more like, updates in general. Game has been pretty much updateless for almost a decade.

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Posted (edited)

IDK if anyone told you yet, OP, but if it wasn't obvious for you, Tiggs' policy on community management (and especially banning/unbanning cheaters) was absolute garbage. If there even was a policy behind it (and not just hammering people on community demand), it sure wasn't a very trustworthy one.

 

Sure, people have cheated, people will cheat. Until it becomes a lot easier to spot a closet cheater, it will remain a problem for the game.

 

Fairfight ban messages didn't help, and ffbans.org made cheating a wall of shame/fame thing, causing even more people to closet cheat as hard as possible, mainly in Asylum, before getting hammered (and with that getting 100s of comments on their ff ban on the webpage to stroke their peen to). Tiggs should've shut that site down the first signals of a shitstorm were showing itself. She could've done at least that.

Edited by Haganu
. . . i didn't get much further, gomene
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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, LocalThugSter said:

how even more childish to tell him to get lost and go write it on a blog because now it's about the word "discussion" and it's definition holy shit the tunnel vision, you dont own these forums and very well cant tell people how to use them or who belongs here, and clearly the post was worth reading if you spent your time articulating a huge archive of a responce, and if you hate him for giving his candid opinion, then what are you doing here littering your post with your own candid reactions

 

read between the lines guys, if you want to get mad about someone's stance, stick it to him AFTER he responds back, yall dont got a clue how open minded he is/isnt until he does

 

If you read my response, i made it clear that THIS type of "discussion" provides 0 benefit to anyone involved. THIS specific format deserves to be on a blog.

OP may be very capable of writing a decent thread with decent discussion points, but they did not do so here so i will not grant them anything.

 

It was not worth reading in the slightest, but i wasn't responding to the OP i was responding to people saying that THIS type of rant/opinion whatever was good or well written for the forums. Which it is clearly not. Regardless of how candid his opinion is, if it promotes nothing else but their own opinion in a "take it or leave it" format it has no place on a discussion board.

 

You can definitely tell how open minded or closed minded someone is when they specifically state they are not interested in discussion. Having no interest to follow up on your own words or opinions is as close minded as it gets.

Edited by UubeNubeh DaWog
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its not LO or G1 killing the game . its the players.

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4 hours ago, UubeNubeh DaWog said:

You can definitely tell how open minded or closed minded someone is when they specifically state they are not interested in discussion. Having no interest to follow up on your own words or opinions is as close minded as it gets.

open your eyes man, do you even notice that OP is actually responding in this thread

 

4 hours ago, UubeNubeh DaWog said:

 

If you read my response, i made it clear that THIS type of "discussion" provides 0 benefit to anyone involved. THIS specific format deserves to be on a blog.

OP may be very capable of writing a decent thread with decent discussion points, but they did not do so here so i will not grant them anything.

you gotta get down your high horse, if multiple people want to talk about something inside a single thread in a whole forum that you're not interested in, then let it be and move on, no one's asking you to police on what warrents a valueable discussion, and hear how this does not achieve your personal standard of what's 'worthy' of your grand attention.

besides these forums as barron, and no one is gonna assume a "blog" will be much better to reach people, i understand why you say you want OP to take this to a blog because blogs are for blocks of text with no discussion, but you've blocked from your mind the fact OP is actually responding to this thread and there is actual discussion, open your eyes.

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On 7/23/2019 at 9:57 AM, KnifuWaifu said:

Yeah I disagree.

This is comedy right here 👌🏼

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7 hours ago, LocalThugSter said:

open your eyes man, do you even notice that OP is actually responding in this thread

 

you gotta get down your high horse, if multiple people want to talk about something inside a single thread in a whole forum that you're not interested in, then let it be and move on, no one's asking you to police on what warrents a valueable discussion, and hear how this does not achieve your personal standard of what's 'worthy' of your grand attention.

besides these forums as barron, and no one is gonna assume a "blog" will be much better to reach people, i understand why you say you want OP to take this to a blog because blogs are for blocks of text with no discussion, but you've blocked from your mind the fact OP is actually responding to this thread and there is actual discussion, open your eyes.

If you read their "responses" you'd notice they're just clarifying their own opinion, not even discussing anything beyond that.

 

Just because things are the way they are doesn't make them 1: Acceptable or 2: Good.

I pointed out very clearly that there was no valuable discussion to be had in my first post on this thread and why that was. The first post was a dead end and by the number and direction of the other replies shows the direct result.

 

I said it wasn't worth anyone's attention, not just my own.

 

Forums are barren because majority of current topics aren't even worth discussing. Its rare that anything new is brought to a topic so its just people repeating themselves over and over, so yeah, that is pretty boring.

 

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14 hours ago, your-username-is-not-suitable said:

 Basically, not limited to just cheats, could be RMT, could be banned for anything else that was an actually bannable offense

RMT and other types of bans outside of Fairfight bans were not overturned. 

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Anyone else remember when PunkBuster shat itself and blanket banned Han Server?

Not all bans are Legit.

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lmao to think that apb players can even read to begin with, you're reaching buddy

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On 7/23/2019 at 2:04 PM, Bambola said:

are incapable of reading more than 500 characters in a single post,

Excuse me,  17361 characters.

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Tiggs played a major part in killing it by banning whoever she wanted, but silvers stomping new players because they're afraid of golds is the main reason.

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1 hour ago, Signarly said:

but silvers stomping new players because they're afraid of golds is the main reason.

You mean gold plated silvers? There's obviously premade groups and solo players who could stay on silver but prefer to abuse the threat system.

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@LocalThugSter Just joined, and has two posts, both in THIS thread. Sounds like someone made a new account to support their main. Who would make an account JUST to stand up for a poorly written, self contradicting, uninformed rant made by someone that is not them?

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That mass unban wave was one of the most idiotic things LO did. Some people were wrongfully banned, sure, but for those who cheated (there were a lot), there's no excuse to unban these people. It's unfair for those players that don't cheat. When you unban someone for cheating you are clearly showing there is no accountability and there is no fairness. 

 

So you cheated a while ago and broke the TOS? Okay we will unban ya. Have fun! (makes perfect sense, so dumb).

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I yawned after seeing the length of the first page. Then yawned again at OP. 

 

I'll probably read it, but i'll make some coffee first, hang on. 

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23 minutes ago, LordVegeta said:

That mass unban wave was one of the most idiotic things LO did. Some people were wrongfully banned, sure, but for those who cheated (there were a lot), there's no excuse to unban these people. It's unfair for those players that don't cheat. When you unban someone for cheating you are clearly showing there is no accountability and there is no fairness. 

 

So you cheated a while ago and broke the TOS? Okay we will unban ya. Have fun! (makes perfect sense, so dumb).

the whole point of the unban was that orbit didnt know who cheated and who didnt

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On 7/30/2019 at 9:41 AM, Glaciers said:

the whole point of the unban was that orbit didnt know who cheated and who didnt

that doesn't justify unbanning everyone. 

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36 minutes ago, LordVegeta said:

that doesn't justify unbanning everyone. 

what would your decision be if you bought a game, found out the anticheat had been false banning for at least a year, and a good number of bans had no documentation?

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1 hour ago, LordVegeta said:

that doesn't justify unbanning everyone. 

G1 had many false ban waves under Punkbuster and FairFight. They also would manually ban players under the FairFight name., regardless of reason for ban.

 

I understand where you're coming from. Too many players got their accounts back who shouldn't have, but it's better than LO having G1's weight to drag around. They wanted a fresh slate. Besides, the population was so low they needed as many players as they could get.

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1 hour ago, Glaciers said:

what would your decision be if you bought a game, found out the anticheat had been false banning for at least a year, and a good number of bans had no documentation?

 

10 minutes ago, SquirrelFace said:

G1 had many false ban waves under Punkbuster and FairFight. They also would manually ban players under the FairFight name., regardless of reason for ban.

 

I understand where you're coming from. Too many players got their accounts back who shouldn't have, but it's better than LO having G1's weight to drag around. They wanted a fresh slate. Besides, the population was so low they needed as many players as they could get.

Well first of all, I didn't buy APB it's free to play for me and second, the anticheat was awful anyway because cheaters were still running rampant. I never came into contact with someone who was falsely banned. Plus, if you are found guilty of breaking TOS that results in a ban, I don't care if you don't get documentation. You know what you did wrong.

 

I disagree. Players getting their account back that cheated is not better than LO having G1's weight around. The average player probably didn't know which players were falsely banned and which ones where correctly banned. All they know is, those that were correctly banned, are now unbanned. Not only does this allow cheaters to return, it creates an environment that displays no accountability and fairness and now you have players that are legit leaving the game because LO decided to unban cheaters which was already a gigantic problem. LO essentially said you know what, we don't have the capability to determine who and who wasn't falsely banned, so we are just going to unban everyone to make a "clean slate." What kind of unfair lazy solution is that. And the population so low? Look at the population now. Plus you still got a cheater problem. Nothing was solved, just made worse. 

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6 hours ago, LordVegeta said:

we don't have the capability to determine who and who wasn't falsely banned, so we are just going to unban everyone to make a "clean slate." What kind of unfair lazy solution is that.

A just one.

Morally it was the right decision.

6 hours ago, LordVegeta said:

Look at the population now.

Pop is only 9% lower now than it was before LO took over. First dip below pre-LO numbers wasn't until February of 2019, some 6 months or so after the mass unbanning.

6 hours ago, LordVegeta said:

 

Plus you still got a cheater problem.

You must have switched to Citadel then.

6 hours ago, LordVegeta said:

Nothing was solved, just made worse. 

Not really... more or less the same pop made up of more of less the same players.

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