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Of course everyone can make up their own mind and judge for themselves as long as they do it in private.

My whole issue with you and those threads has been that those individuals decided to step out and go public. As soon as that happens it very much matters whether their accusations are right or wrong.

At this point I'm not sure you really understand the meaning of "credibility of your accusations" here? It's just not there so anything you say doesn't matter.

So what concerns me isn't your credibility but the people gobbling these accusations up while lacking the insight of the positions and qualifications of those posters.

 

Yes, I would say I get a lot of accusations when playing, if more or less than others I don't know and I don't really care about it as long as those people don't go on to the forums and proclaim that they have the skills to differentiate between veterans and cheaters which has been the ISSUE this whole time. Did that get it across?

 


So you got no issue with people making up their own minds as long as they do it in private, okay, well then whats the problem?
A whisper is private right? a clip of gameplay is a clip of gameplay, it's not accusation unless text or title provides an accusation, right?
So you agree people should be free to make up their own minds from what they see, right? and as for in-game, there's /w and ignore function right?
 

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So what concerns me isn't your credibility but the people gobbling these accusations up while lacking the insight of the positions and qualifications of those posters.

Ah, so here we're getting closer to the real issue aren't we...
I think I got a good idea why you're so defensive about it.... personally, nobody calling me cheater affects me or my game-play or feelings.
I think you're affected by it, because you're such an elitist that you actually believe only a certain small % of veterans are able to justifiably feel that they're opposed vs a cheater.

Same goes for your entire attitude about topics discussing the cheating problem in APB. You respond these topics as if a bunch of players are "all wrong" and "blowing things out of propotion", yet the only person here not presenting any facts to backup your claims are you.

I've explained why APB is in a much worse state in regards to cheating, than your average F2P online game and both myself and others have linked and commented towards REAL sources you can freely read.
I've given you real world examples of cheater forums discussing APB, EAC, scripts, aimbotting and so on. You're easily able to visit and get a feel for how many are active those places. (and those are just the open ones that guests can browse)

It doesn't then take a brain surgeon, to understand why such a tiny community as we now have, that barely can fill 1 gold-threat district (aka silver district), why most players agree that the experience is that there's a prevalent number of cheaters in APB, regardless how much you try to downplay it and say people are "exaggerating".
 

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To bad then that you did accuse over whisper and /d (public) then. Lied again.

Also this isn't about how to handle those comments, as you said the tools are there and everyone can decide for themselves to moderate it, but what they do to your credibility (yes, that word again)


 

 


To my knowledge I've not accused anyone in public, aside from times where they themselves speak out in public to me first.
If there's been an instance where that wasn't the case, then that's my bad, we're all just human.
I say again, I believe that anyone who feels they're vs a cheater, should keep it in private /w and on that notice, ignore does the trick if someone feels threatened/annoyed.
And as for public clips/video, I feel it should be totally allowed, as long as there are no titles or incriminating text. Everyone should be free to make up their own minds from what they see.
 

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I didn't skim through and neither did I misunderstand it. You made the same mistake that I've talked about twice already. That's just not how percentages and numbers work.

It's not "my" 40% (37%). I quoted it from you (KittyYekaterina).

Just as 2 average can potentially be 8 individuals. The absolute worst case would be that everyone of these decide to cheat in APB only then and ONLY THEN would there be 40% of cheaters.

But that is not the case. You have 3% that always cheat. 9% often so let's say about 7%. 13% sometimes could be around half let's add another 6%. Rarely we can add another 2%.

That accumulates to a total of 18% that would have decided to cheat in APB. Nowhere near close the 40% (37%).

Still a scary number nonetheless but I will point out again the small sample size that goes from.

 


If you didn't skim it, then idk how you didn't notice it was 4 numbers added up that made the 37%.
You didn't quote Kitty, you quoted me.. it's literally still up there. screencap

Indeed, 18% would be a hell of a scary number. If you got 100 players actively doing missions daily in APB and potential 18 of them are cheaters.
However that's not a number I used or referenced, I was referring to the "hard-core" cheaters and saying THEY have a far far larger number here in APB.
I'm glad you're slowly coming around to my numbers though, as opposed to just stating that everyone is wrong and are blowing things out of proportion.
I'm keeping my estimates down to things you can reference and look up. Hell, it's not hard to visit that "other forum" and do as the OP did and which was the reason for this thread in the first place!
 

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I think I've answered this often enough now. My advice: look at the numbers twice.

Maybe he shouldn't visit those sites if he can't handle the obvious: people openly discuss cheats on a cheat-forum.

 


I think it's great when the population are seeking out answers of their own and are going out to justify their feelings with real world data.
Wish more people would do as the OP. I think the numbers won't change for the better, until the community itself starts being a lot more vigilant at self-policing their own clans.
EAC alone can't fix a problem that is this deeply rooted as it is in APB and that's where the studies and science came in, to show how a small problem can spin out of control and what the tell-tale signs are and that indeed cheaters do tend to sway their legit friends into cheating as well.
 

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An aimbot can kill you only as fast as the gun/bloom allows you since there is only one hitbox with no instakills.

Like I said "veteran groups" usually means good teamwork. Trade each other. Ladders and doors are chokepoints where the cheater can't shoot back for a time.

Work with cars, cheater that reloads cant shoot back. Are we all playing the same gun? Use burst weapons that reduce exposure, use range on them or just straight out-ttk them.

I've played ACES smg and straight out-ttked aimbots close range (obviously you won't always reach that minimal ttk but you only need one kill to progress at times).

Not to mention grenades. There are just so many ways to level the playing field. 

So please, do me a favor and stop with that ignorant view of aimbots can't be beaten. It's quite the silly statement in APB.

 

 

It's funny because you speak as if the people using cheat, don't have access to exactly the same things as those you mention as a legit player.
Again, I think you're just feeling very elitist and "on another level" and you're trying to justify that everyone should feel as you do.

Not everyone plays in 4man veteran premades. Not everyone can out-ttk aimbotters at close range etc (hit every single bullet to min-ttk).
Cheaters got access to grenades too and in APB, they sure as hell often also play in groups of likewise buddies:)
Hell, in APB it's a well known phenomena to speak of entire "cheater clans" that are blatantly bypassing whatever is current anti-cheat and not even scared to brag of it.


So far, I've linked you multiple articles and back-sourced you to the original research, to explain the situation of APB and why it's worse than your average F2P game.
I've linked and quoted text and images taken from real world examples from active cheater forums and real world studies and the only thing "kindergarten" about anything here, is that I've explained these terms to you at such level that it's only now interesting that you continue to disagree and defend your position.

Do you agree that if you have a playerbase of roughly 400 online players, out of which barely you fill 1, sometimes 1 and a half gold threat district.
That's 80 players in a district. Can we assume most cheaters will be gold threat, considering how easily that is obtained yes?
If we follow even the most conservative thinking and link it up with the situation of APB, then it's really easy to understand why there are so many topics regarding cheats, don't you think?

Idk why you came to this topic from an OP being repulsed at this APB subculture, to argue and tell people that they're exaggerating and blowing things out of proportion.
And yes, it is a subculture, exactly for the reasons as stated in the research and studies. Cheaters tend to breed cheaters among their friends.
 

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To be honest, that is why I rarely play anymore. Having a few friends who are in that circle, I legit can't stomach it.
They've boiled it down to an art. Faking that they missed shots, messing up gun ROF, letting you get a kill here and there.
And the pack mentality they have when they encounter someone they don't like. Hunting them down like a wolf pack, and attacking like one too. You ever watch wolfs attack a single elk? It's like that.

It's sickening.
I just sit in social all day, keep to myself, and make clothing now-a-days.

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9 minutes ago, Goabea said:

To be honest, that is why I rarely play anymore. Having a few friends who are in that circle, I legit can't stomach it.
They've boiled it down to an art. Faking that they missed shots, messing up gun ROF, letting you get a kill here and there.
And the pack mentality they have when they encounter someone they don't like. Hunting them down like a wolf pack, and attacking like one too. You ever watch wolfs attack a single elk? It's like that.

It's sickening.
I just sit in social all day, keep to myself, and make clothing now-a-days.

Coming from anyone else, I would have ridiculed them.

Coming from you... that's scary as fuck.

Thank you for sharing this.

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5 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Coming from anyone else, I would have ridiculed them.

Coming from you... that's scary as fuck.

Thank you for sharing this.

No problem. 

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1 hour ago, Tigrix said:

It does change the fact CookiePuss. Firstly, you're supporting MY point lol, since general studies in online gaming say its 2-3% that are hard-core cheaters.

But I say that in APB that number is way way higher, so well you're already doubling my number (5-6%) and that is just a study from 2011!

Ahh I see what you mean now.

 

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57 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

[...]

I think I got a good idea why you're so defensive about it.... personally, nobody calling me cheater affects me or my game-play or feelings.
I think you're affected by it, because you're such an elitist that you actually believe only a certain small % of veterans are able to justifiably feel that they're opposed vs a cheater.
[...]

What in the world are you talking about? You have to stop interpreting bullshoot into my words when I very clearly say what I mean.

Accusations don't affect me in any way. It's about your statement of being qualified to make the distinction between veterans and cheaters when you clearly don't (my accusation as an example and proof). That's all there is... that has been my only point since the very first post before you added all the other useless stuff around it.

 

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If you didn't skim it, then idk how you didn't notice it was 4 numbers added up that made the 37%.
You didn't quote Kitty, you quoted me.. it's literally still up there. screencap
[...]

Just because I didn't break it down, when it didn't matter at that point, doesn't mean I didn't notice it. Why would I need to explain a number that the source that you posted explains?

Yes, literally I quoted you but for the 40% part I "quoted" Kitty. Since you both share the same view I wrote "you (KittyYekaterina)". Admittedly slightly confusing like that.

 

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It's funny because you speak as if the people using cheat, don't have access to exactly the same things as those you mention as a legit player.
Again, I think you're just feeling very elitist and "on another level" and you're trying to justify that everyone should feel as you do.

Not everyone plays in 4man veteran premades. Not everyone can out-ttk aimbotters at close range etc (hit every single bullet to min-ttk).

[...]

Of course they do, but they generally don't have the skills (individually and teamwork wise) to properly utilize all these tools which is where these veterans gain their advantage.

I'm just stating what is possible in the limitations of the game. Can't do anything about it when that comes across as elitist.

Never said everyone was supposed to be able to do that. That's like another pointless addition that is of no relevance to my initial point.

 

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If we follow even the most conservative thinking and link it up with the situation of APB, then it's really easy to understand why there are so many topics regarding cheats, don't you think?

[...]

One of my very first sentences as a reply towards you was:

"I'm aware of a cheater subculture but how significant? My only estimate to that is less than all those threads make out to be."

The topics itself aren't the issue. It has always been how the creators justified their opinions. 

 

 

I cut it short to bring it to a close.

Edited by TheJellyGoo

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50 minutes ago, Goabea said:

To be honest, that is why I rarely play anymore. Having a few friends who are in that circle, I legit can't stomach it.
They've boiled it down to an art. Faking that they missed shots, messing up gun ROF, letting you get a kill here and there.
And the pack mentality they have when they encounter someone they don't like. Hunting them down like a wolf pack, and attacking like one too. You ever watch wolfs attack a single elk? It's like that.

It's sickening.
I just sit in social all day, keep to myself, and make clothing now-a-days.


Exactly this. I can't stress this enough. If you know someone who has been on that inside or experienced it 1st hand, then you really are repulsed at whats going on and what a friggin' insane culture of "it's okay because my friends do it too" it has become in our small game.
 

40 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Coming from anyone else, I would have ridiculed them.

Coming from you... that's scary as fuck.

Thank you for sharing this.

 

26 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Ahh I see what you mean now.

 


👍
 

4 minutes ago, TheJellyGoo said:

 

What in the world are you talking about? You have to stop interpreting bullshoot into my words when I very clearly say what I mean.

Accusations don't affect me in any way. It's about your statement of being qualified to make the distinction between veterans and cheaters when you clearly don't (my accusation as an example and proof). That's all there is... that has been my only point since the very first post before you added all the other useless stuff around it.

 

Just because I didn't break it down, when it didn't matter at that point, doesn't mean I didn't notice it. Why would I need to explain a number that the source that you posted explains?

Yes, literally I quoted you but for the 40% part I "quoted" Kitty. Since you both share the same view I wrote "you (KittyYekaterina)". Admittedly slightly confusing like that.

 

Of course they do, but they generally don't have the skills (individually and teamwork wise) to properly utilize all these tools which is where these veterans gain their advantage.

I'm just stating what is possibly in the limitations of the game. Can't do anything about it when that comes across as elitist.

Never said everyone was supposed to be able to do that. That's like another pointless addition that is of no relevance to my initial point.

 

One of my very first sentences as a reply towards you was:

"I'm aware of a cheater subculture but how significant? My only estimate to that is less than all those threads make out to be."

The topics itself aren't the issue. It has always been how the creators justified their opinions. 

 

 

I cut it short to bring it to a close.


Oh, I do believe the quarrel of this back and forth, was you stating that people as me and the topic OP are delusional:) Which is a bit more confronting than just saying you're disagreeing with an estimate.
Which led to me presenting you a lot of facts and sourced material on the area of cheating in online games and then comparing the situation of APB and what we can find surrounding APB and cheaters, by merely doing simple google searches and investigating on our own, while adding the experience we're having and the so called "number of posts" regarding the issues of cheating.

But I'm glad that eventually it seems you've more or less come closer to agreeing on the numbers i'm arguing, rather than just touting that everything is an exaggeration by delusional players and that MY personal credibility to YOU, means I can't discuss this topic, which is what you heavily imply.

On top of that, I can only quote GoaBea, to again say; in APB, we really do have a disgusting problem with some extremely resilient players that have managed to make it a style that their friends and their circle fully accept and embrace even. I think that feeling is something a lot of players are having and that's why you see 8 topics about cheating in 3 days I'd bet you. Not so much cause "delusions". 🙂 

zYFPCBl.png

 

 

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2 hours ago, Goabea said:

To be honest, that is why I rarely play anymore. Having a few friends who are in that circle, I legit can't stomach it.
They've boiled it down to an art. Faking that they missed shots, messing up gun ROF, letting you get a kill here and there.
And the pack mentality they have when they encounter someone they don't like. Hunting them down like a wolf pack, and attacking like one too. You ever watch wolfs attack a single elk? It's like that.

It's sickening.
I just sit in social all day, keep to myself, and make clothing now-a-days.

Is funny it just passed out my mind but is quite true...

If they love the game then they just pay to destroy it... this kind of love is sad 😞

Edited by Jumanna
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57 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

Oh, I do believe the quarrel of this back and forth, was you stating that people as me and the topic OP are delusional:) Which is a bit more confronting than just saying you're disagreeing with an estimate.
Which led to me presenting you a lot of facts and sourced material on the area of cheating in online games and then comparing the situation of APB and what we can find surrounding APB and cheaters, by merely doing simple google searches and investigating on our own, while adding the experience we're having and the so called "number of posts" regarding the issues of cheating.

But I'm glad that eventually it seems you've more or less come closer to agreeing on the numbers i'm arguing, rather than just touting that everything is an exaggeration by delusional players and that MY personal credibility to YOU, means I can't discuss this topic, which is what you heavily imply.

On top of that, I can only quote GoaBea, to again say; in APB, we really do have a disgusting problem with some extremely resilient players that have managed to make it a style that their friends and their circle fully accept and embrace even. I think that feeling is something a lot of players are having and that's why you see 8 topics about cheating in 3 days I'd bet you. Not so much cause "delusions". 🙂 

zYFPCBl.png

 

 

You just keep doing it... I said:

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One of my very first sentences as a reply towards you was:

"I'm aware of a cheater subculture but how significant? My only estimate to that is less than all those threads make out to be."

 

There is no hidden meaning. The words are there for their literal meaning. It is just a sentence from the first time I quoted you (replied to you) that fits into my last post as closure.

Why do you have to continue to go out of your way to make it out as me trying to undermine whatever you think you're trying to point out here.

 

Heavily imply? HEAVILY IMPLY? It's literally what I've been telling you all this time. You finally got it!

And no, I haven't come closer to agreeing on the numbers you're arguing. What makes you think that? Where have I ever voiced my change of view. I've been saying the same thing all this time.

You just keep on going and going and twist and interpret something into my words that is not there.

 

But fine, let me end with that instead.

I disagree with your estimate because the numbers are exaggerated. Believing you're correct makes me think you're delusional about it.

 

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You just keep doing it... I said:

There is no hidden meaning. The words are there for their literal meaning. It is just a sentence from the first time I quoted you (replied to you) that fits into my last post as closure.

Why do you have to continue to go out of your way to make it out as me trying to undermine whatever you think you're trying to point out here.

 


Can you follow head from tails in your own agenda? honestly..

I've argued that you're trying to undermine the problem of cheating in APB.
You've argued that "people as me" are trying to "exaggerate the problem"
Result: I produced a bunch of statistics and material on the case of cheating in online games.
I produced a website actively used to discuss cheats for APB, as actively as everyday with latest aimbot thread having 11 replies and 510+ views in 12hours.

There has been others than me quoting that there is a really deep rooted issue with cheaters in APB and their mentality.
You have a forum in which you've confirmed yourself there's been no less than eight different threads concerning cheaters in 3 days, from different players.
Yet you continue to argue saying it's exaggerated.
 

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Heavily imply? HEAVILY IMPLY? It's literally what I've been telling you all this time. You finally got it!


No no, I didn't "finally get it" - I just took the stance of treating you with modest respect by using actual real world data and linking you facts, as opposed to dismissing your negligent opinion under bias of some alleged encounter you've had with a player in the past. I've had many of those, it doesn't color the facts or distort what I presented you. There is still a daily active cheater forum, right now discussing the latest aimbot and AHK scripts for APB and offering them up for download, with as recent as 11 replies and 510+ views in 12 hours, those are not facts colored by who presents it to you....
It's simply you choosing to be ignorant, because you personally have a beef or bias against the person presenting it.
 

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And no, I haven't come closer to agreeing on the numbers you're arguing. What makes you think that? Where have I ever voiced my change of view. I've been saying the same thing all this time.

You just keep on going and going and twist and interpret something into my words that is not there.

 


Interesting, to me it seems you definitely took a big leap, going from "it's exaggeration and delusional" to>>> :
 

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You have 3% that always cheat. 9% often so let's say about 7%. 13% sometimes could be around half let's add another 6%. Rarely we can add another 2%.

That accumulates to a total of 18% that would have decided to cheat in APB. Nowhere near close the 40% (37%).

Still a scary number nonetheless but I will point out again the small sample size that goes from.

 


Specially the bold part:) I'd say that's a giant step forward, even if you're backpedaling slightly at the end with the "small sample size" - There are multiple reports and studies made, so you don't have to settle for this alone.
 

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But fine, let me end with that instead.

I disagree with your estimate because the numbers are exaggerated. Believing you're correct makes me think you're delusional about it.

 


That's mighty kind of you.
See, things are so much easier when you from the start simply say what you believe, even when it's stupid and negligent of the facts in-front of you:)
But it's better than using broad strokes and trying to present your argument as you helping APB by:
 "i feel a duty to step in and say these people are just exaggerating, upvoting eachother and being delusional about any cheater pandemic".

Your reaction to most of what I presented, honestly seem to just boil down to the simple:
I'm an elitist veteran god of APB that have usually np with cheaters in my 4man group and you're a sh***er that hackusated me, so everything you say is irrelevant and f**k facts and your source links debating the matter of cheater mentality and comparing studies with current situation of APB. Anything you say Tigrix, I'll invalidate based on my personal opinion of you!
 

So much easier when we know where we stand:)

Edited by Tigrix
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Some fights are ok when you made a thread praising lo, same talking about cheating... excellent.

What degeneracy...

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