mtz
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Posts posted by mtz
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1 minute ago, CookiePuss said:Im just guessing but for me, I'd rate "number of viewers" as rather high on the list of requirements, especially if it represents a portion of the player base not wanting to watch the other streams.
Unless one is viewbotting, that is. The usual telltale sign is high viewership numbers and non-existant chat engagement. Think 100 viewers and not a single person saying anything in chat.
Raw numbers can easily be faked. Just saying.
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20 minutes ago, Tigrix said:Firstly, its not a curse word. Fuck is a curse word or used-as a curse word.
Wh0re is a description of **** do i need to link you again 3 different English dictionaries?
Ok then, I hope it clears it up again for you, finally maybe this time?
I told you this, like 7 posts back btw, goto page 1 and 2 and read my reply concerning your example of "fuck" and "gumball talking of sodomi".Firstly,
If you have to nitpick for a specific definition of a word to make your point, it probably isn't too sound of a point.
Secondly, it's a description of what?
Dictionary definitions explain the word's meaning, not how offensive it is. I asked you several times to explain what about the word made it worse than — for example — jokes about sodomy (Gumball's lines), implications of incest (the word "motherfvcker") or dehumanization (the word "b!tch"). I asked about the pragmatics of this word being worse than its alternatives. You were unable to provide me with such explanation for several posts in a row.
Thirdly: no, you didn't answer it. Had you answered the question, I would not have written those previous posts. Hell, I wouldn't have written this post.
I've rephrased and dumbed down the question several times in order to make it easier for you to understand it and answer it — I cannot possibly simplify it any further and yet you still cannot provide me with an answer. You missed your chance, bud. I'm out. Write this one down as a "win" in your little notebook or something if it makes you feel better. I don't have the energy to keep hoping that you'll answer simple questions anymore.
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8 minutes ago, Tigrix said:I can only refer you to actually read my response. The difference of in-game story from an M-rated game with contacts aka NPC's talking about each-other --- versus --- a company making jokes of very derogatory words that they already struggle with warning their community against using towards each-other.
I explained it now a couple of times the difference:) If you still don't grasp a difference, then I really can't help you make it any clearer.I don't think you understand the question posed to you. Either that or you are knowingly dancing around the act of answering it for reasons I am not aware of.
I cannot simplify this any further, so please do actually answer me this time around. This is the last time I'm asking for an explanation and I'm not going to participate in this any further if I don't get a concise answer from you this time around.
What exactly makes the use of that specific word so much worse than the use of any other curse word?
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1 minute ago, Tigrix said:I explained precisely upper what's the difference and why I find that using such language as reward titles is going against everything they're trying to establish via their EULA update and in-game active GMs/moderation policy.
As @Solamente pointed out, anyone labelling themselves with that word probably doesn't have a single issue with it. Your point is...?
3 minutes ago, Tigrix said:You're trying too hard to farm points among your buddies dude
I don't understand where you're getting the impression that I'm doing this for internet points. It's either you projecting onto others (again) or you repeating falsehoods (again) hoping that they will eventually become real when repeated enough times.
2 minutes ago, Tigrix said:You don't understand the difference between derogatory words as wh0re and saying fuck off? What does sodomi discussing have to do with anything? You can discuss racism too, that doesn't have anything to do with the point of this topic?
All of these questions are related to the big question that you refuse to answer. I thought that I posed it in a simple enough manner, but I suppose I'll have to rephrase it again since you're so insistent on deflecting the argument instead of answering it: out of all possible insults, what makes that single specific word so bad compared to its alternatives?
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1 minute ago, Tigrix said:maybe your underlying passive-aggressive hunt for those sweet sweet acceptance points among your fellow buddies is clouding your ability to read objectively what's being replied to you.
Alright, at this point you're just projecting ',:|
Honestly, reading your posts feels like regardless of what you're told by other people, you're just repeating the same thing over and over, worded slightly differently.
3 minutes ago, Tigrix said:In fact, my post about this specific derogatory word being randomly tossed into the game as a reward title, should show how much I've come to respect LO for their stances and their attempts at bettering the community via rules and moderation/GM's etc etc.
You still haven't addressed the question from earlier: what makes that single specific word so bad, compared to other things? You can't say that "we already discussed the mature content of APB" and think that'll let you move on without addressing the questions posed to you. You've outright refused to specify what's so evil about this specific word compared to the others.
"Fuck" is okay with you. You don't seem to mind the word "b!tch". You don't have a gripe with Gumball joking about sodomy. What makes the word "wh0re" such an unspeakable offense? Is it that the term is "gendered" (which it, by definition, isn't)? In that case, why do you not have any qualms towards the word "b!tch"?
You're presenting an argument that the word should not be in the game because it is "very derogatory" — but 1) there are already other derogatory terms and expressions in the game, some of which are arguably worse; 2) you refuse to explain what exactly makes it so unforgivable, instead resorting to repeating that "it's bad" and never elaborating why.
You're supposing that the title goes against the Terms of Service — but 1) as you've been repeatedly proven, it isn't; 2) you do not decide what is in breach of it and what isn't.
You are arguing in bad faith. You don't want a debate, you want your opinion to be enforced as law.
Is this your first time participating in an online discussion? Did you expect everyone to absentmindedly fall in line and agree with everything you're saying? Or that if you just repeat the same thing enough times with slightly altered wording or insult people enough times, you'll automatically win?
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28 minutes ago, Tigrix said:Well I am when using the context of IMO, unless you don't know what IMO is an abbreviation of.
Your opinion =/= fact. It's a frequent misconception on the Internet, I know.
28 minutes ago, Tigrix said:Oh? list me where fuck is a derogatory term please. I saw lots of people using "fuck" in district and never heard or saw a GM hush them or say hey chill your language.
It's a commonly used curse, but is it a derogatory insult?There is a sincerely deep conversation about linguistics, pragmatics and practical use of language to be had here — for example, about how words only have a meaning when they are contextualized, or about how pragmatics of a discussion influence the reception of the word and how insulting words become not insulting in specific contexts and situations depending on the relations between the speaker and the listener, or about how a word conventionally considered a curse word becomes an expression or exclamation when not aimed at any target — but I'm afraid there's no point in having it here. Not in this environment, not at this time, not with someone unwilling to listen.
28 minutes ago, Tigrix said:Oh, but again - I've been saying THE WHOLE TIME that this is the determination of LO. They set the boundaries.
See? This really proves how badly you miss-read my original post. My entire topic was about LO crossing the boundary when using such a term as a reward title in their game.
LO should be an example of their own TOS, i've literally said it since the start of this thread, how did you manage to still miss it by now MartinPL?You were told in this thread already — several times, in fact — that the "offending" word in the title that is the subject of this thread, "wh0re", is not aimed at anyone but the user. It does not breach the Terms of Service because there's no rule against being a pottymouth, just against insulting other players.
The word is "derogatory in other cultures"? Poles use the word "kurwa" (one of its meanings is, surprise surprise, "wh0re") very liberally. When someone slams their finger while trying to hammer in a nail, they'll scream "KURWA!" just like English speakers would shout "FUCK!" in pain. If you're a grown person, you should be able to figure out that the Pole is not calling for a prostitute to come to his aid, nor is the English speaker in sudden need for intercourse. Like I said earlier: pragmatics.
Oh, and since you're so eager to reference "the start of this thread"...
3 hours ago, Tigrix said:I mean most kids are very susceptible to reading the language and usage of it,
QuoteEligibility:
5.3 You acknowledge and agree that you shall only be entitled to use the Game if you are an adult of at least 18 (eighteen) years of age or if you are at least 17 (seventeen) years of age in applicable jurisdictions where you are legally permitted to purchase the Game.
5.4 By agreeing to the terms and conditions of this End User License Agreement, and installing and using the Game, you warrant that you are an adult of at least 18 (eighteen) years of age or have the consent of your parents or legal guardians to enter into and be bound by this End User License Agreement.
The "think of the children" defense is 1) a cheap cop-out, 2) non-applicable here because children aren't even allowed to play this game.
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54 minutes ago, Tigrix said:... imo you missed the point.
I'm afraid you are not the authority in deciding who understood your post and who didn't.
54 minutes ago, Tigrix said:We're not arguing whether APB has mature this or that in it, Kyoki already pointed out before you that there's words as "fuck" and toe-sucking (which imo, neither those terms are listed as derogatory terms anyway?).
This topic is whether or not a line has been crossed and imo LO is crossing a line when they're greenlighting a clear derogatory term as a reward title.Last time I checked, the word "fuck" was pretty derogatory. So was "b!tch". So was "motherfvcker". So was sodomizing animals. The first one is used several times in the game, the middle two are dispatch briefings (APB Reloaded\APBGame\Localization\INT\Subtitles_FEM.int), the last one is a quote from Gumball. I ask again: exactly why are you singling out that specific word as especially offensive?
54 minutes ago, Tigrix said:It doesn't matter that you "choose to use it or not" ... you could say same for ALL titles then and literally add the word ... (i won't post it, but there are lots of racial and sexual swears out there, i'm sure I don't have to list them under the silly argument of "well duhhh, just don't use it".)
I feel a game developer company should know to follow their own TOS before they ask that their players do.
You didn't address the point though. And it's not that you skipped it — you disregarded it, presumably thinking that it means it's invalid and that you don't have to address it anymore.
Titles literally don't target other players, aside from the two "I'm With Stupid" ones you can get from Joker Distribution in Social (which barely even work as "insults" because of how childish they are and because of how only its user will be able to see the intended result since the titles are always pointed towards a player's camera). And let's just get it out of the way: if you fear being on the receiving end of an "I'm With Stupid -->" title, you should probably get off the internet and seek adult supervision.
Titles are not invitations nor licenses to use words within them. They are labels and self-descriptors you can put on yourself for additional self-expression in the game.
You can put the "Idiot" title on yourself to additionally taunt people about how they were killed by someone who openly calls themselves stupid.
You can put the "Lukewarm" title on yourself as a bit of comedic self-deprecation about your appearance.
You can put the "Candy Wh0re" title on yourself to express how you fucking love candy so much that you'd engage in sexual acts for them.
You choose if a title is to be applied to you. If you get hung up on a single specific definition of one of the words used in a title, 1) there's a chance you don't meet the age requirement of this game, 2) you're forgetting that you can always just not use the title. It's not even tangentially related to following the Terms of Service because no one could come reasonably close to breaching the ToS by putting that title on themselves (because which rule are you even breaking? "no use of derogatory language on yourself"?); neither is this title's existence a breach of Terms of Service, because this is not a situation where an individual is insulting or otherwise bullying another individual.
To repeat the question from earlier: why are you singling out the word "wh0re" as especially offensive?
15 minutes ago, Tigrix said:Copy Pasta from LO's eula:
9.4 You shall not (and you agree to not) generate any User Generated Content, or use the Game in a way, that:
(a) is defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, harmful, abusive, harassing, hateful, invasive of another's privacy, sexually explicit, or offensive (whether in relation to race, sex, religion or otherwise) or denigrating to anyone's reputation or general standing (whether or not actionable);You omitted point 9.4.3., which explicitly states that determining whether something breaches this is left to "Little Orbit's absolute discretion". They have the final say in whether something is defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, harmful, harassing, hateful, invasive of another's privacy, sexually explicit, offensive, or denigrating to another person's reputation or social standing. You should know that if you agreed to the Terms of Service. And clearly having a self-deprecative joke as a title (which isn't even forced upon anyone) is not any of these things.
If you don't like that, you can always not participate in this game or its community anymore.
Lying by omission to prove your point is not the way to go.
15 minutes ago, Tigrix said:UGC vs DGC.....Since this is developer generated content, they're IMO greenlighting the same type of vulgar language that they don't want their players to use.
...towards other people. Exactly which word in "Candy Wh0re" is an insult to another person?
I feel like you're reading into this title a bit too much and trying to present it as more malicious than it really is or could be, presumably in a bout of self-righteousness or in pursuit of those sweet, sweet internet karma points.
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Just now, Tigrix said:You managed to miss the entire point of the subject.
It's not that anyone forces you or me to use a title - it's the fact that using a known derogatory term as a reward is greenlighting that term as being perfectly acceptable.
At the same time, you don't want your players actually using that term in any public/district chat.Just out of curiosity, why did you choose to respond to only that specific part of my post? Did you accidentally or knowingly skip the part where I point out that this is one of many mature themes in this M-rated game?
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18 minutes ago, Kitty Yekaterina said:Ok then lets hear the source of Cambridge dictionary out of United Kingdom, the source of an official English language:
The geographical region of Cambridge does not hold any monopoly on definitions existing in the English language, nor does the University of Cambridge. In fact, there is no single governing entity deciding upon how a language operates because this is not how languages work. Depending on cultural events and transformations, words may change their meaning (sometimes through misinterpretation by people) or gain new ones altogether.
For your own sake, please don't cite dictionaries alone — the only thing it does is make it glaringly obvious that you have a surface level comprehension of the subject. Dictionaries are not the be-all-end-all guidelines to language because of the reasons mentioned earlier. They exist to categorize words and define/describe them based on their use in human culture. That's what lexicographers do — they observe the use of language and write it down. This is why we've had that shitshow a few years ago when Merriam-Webster listed one of the definitions of the word "literally" as "figuratively" (so the exact opposite). That's not some evil plot to change language, it's literally (pun intended) what happened to the word because of its misuse by humans.
Going back to the original point: no, nothing in the word "wh0re" indicates or implies female gender of its subject. Neither does the word "prostitute", for that matter. Wikipedia offers a streamlined explanation of the word's etymology:
QuoteThe English word [wh0re] derives from the Old English word hōra, from the Proto-Germanic *hōrōn (prostitute), which derives from the Proto-Indo-European root *keh₂- meaning "desire", a root which has also given us Latin cārus (dear), whence the French cher (dear, expensive) and the Latin cāritās (love, charity).
Why do you think that prostitution is sometimes called "the oldest profession in the world"? The act itself has a history spanning pretty much all of human civilization and, because of several social mechanisms, has been most commonly associated with women. However, it is not exclusively the domain of that sex. You don't have to be female to be able to prostitute yourself.
By the way, just to clear things up: the order of definitions in a dictionary does not imply their importance or significance.
I cannot imagine any real reason as to why anyone would raise this complaint about the use of a specific word, other than posturing and virtue signalling. (Or nitpicking, though that one's just a theory here.)
I would understand (and perhaps even sympathize with) the point that in some areas of the world it is considered a heavy insult, but — for the love of God — have you never noticed what game you've been playing? ESRB assigned APB the M ("Mature 17+") rating, explicitly describing the type of content you can encounter in the game. Do you not have a problem with killing other people in the game? Do you not have a problem with us smuggling animals to sell them for profit? Do you not have a problem with Gumball indirectly offering the player to fuck his dog? All of these are quite immoral and unacceptable things, yet you're taking offense to a single specific word that's not even aimed directly at you?
Yes, the word is banned on the forums, because different etiquette is required here. As Solamente already pointed out, anyone can access these forums and read them, but in the actual game itself you have to register an account to interact with it. In the game chat you can (note: I'm saying that you can and not that you should) curse like a sailor, preferably without aiming the curse words at other people — but on the forums you're expected to be a bit more courteous or professional. You're out in the open. The world can see you. Act like it.
The thing that I find the most funny about this is that the word "wh0re", which is oh so problematic, is included in a title. It's never going to be aimed at any other player. It describes your character. If you don't want to title yourself a "candy wh0re", just use a different title. No one — not a single goddamned person in this game — can force you to wear that title if you don't want to.
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Why does this feel like... a massive non-issue? Perhaps I'm reading this incorrectly, but... is your problem that the weapon icons are not gold anymore? (some of which still are on your screenshots)
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In all honesty, this dev post from Matt Scott is a tough pill to swallow.
I've had some people ask me (often in a confrontational manner) why I'm being optimistic/positive about Little Orbit when "all they've been doing so far was just ruining the game". It's because the only current alternative seems to be that exact type of unproductive babble.
We need to face this as a community: we fucked up. There's no point in pretending that LO is entirely responsible for what happens to APB, or that the game is going to magically save itself through no effort of our own. We fucked up by letting things reach this point where a new company which could potentially breathe new life into APB is scared of the community behind the game. Think of Tiggs what you will — hell, I personally believe she had made multiple severe mistakes in her plight as Community Manager — but threats to her life and safety are absolutely inexcusable. Threats to anyone's life and safety, especially over a goddamned video game, are something that never should even cross anyone's mind.
This sort of childish behavior is partly what got us into this mess in the first place. This is the reputation those individuals have given to our community. How are we supposed to convince anyone to join the game when its social landscape — one of its most important components, considering how this is an MMO — is a toxic wasteland where people get insulted, demeaned or threatened on the regular?
It's very easy to pretend that your actions don't have consequences; that "it's all just words on the screen"; that the victims of this sort of harassment "are too soft for the internet"; or that "it's just the way this game is", which is a laughably evil point of view. The real problems begin when suddenly you don't see those people in the game anymore.
Maybe they decided that they are not going to bother with a game with such a toxic community. Maybe they wanted to find new friends to play video games with, but all they got was taunts and insults and being told to "git gud". Maybe they wanted to play a video game and forget about their problems but instead they got told words that ended up making them feel even worse. Either way you end up being directly responsible for someone not being in APB anymore. No amount of excuses will bring us from low population numbers — only waking up and owning up to how we behave will.
If this post reaches even one person and makes them change their ways, I'll be happy. I don't want people to start behaving like Pollyannas because that would be 1) unrealistic, 2) unproductive, 3) obnoxious — I just wish some of us could grow up a bit. Hell, some people probably have literally grown up playing APB. It's high time they've started acting their age instead of trying to be the 12 year old bullies ruling the playground.
On a different note: thanks, Matt (sorry, couldn't resist :^) ) and other folks at LO. Really, thank you. For everything you've been doing for the game so far. Even for the bad decisions, since you've shown that you're willing to learn from mistakes and you've withdrawn or changed said decisions. The amount of developer-playerbase interaction we've been getting for the last two years has been simply incredible. Off the top of my head I can't think of a different company whose CEO is so active in interacting with the community. It saddens me a bit that, as it turns out, it was partially born as a cautionary measure to protect other LO employees from attacks, but ultimately — personally speaking — I respect the amount of interaction we ended up getting from a higher-up in the company. It definitely feels like the company genuinely wants to hear feedback from the playerbase. It's a bit reassuring that our opinions are actually seen and heard by those in charge, instead of pre-buyout G1's approach of never listening to anything, never saying anything and never giving a damn about what the community thinks.
Hell, the GMs are actually participating in the life of the community, the moderators are trying to keep the forums civil and organized... things are actually happening. Even if the game is not in tiptop shape yet, I believe we're slowly getting there. We're in this thing together. LO can keep working on the actual game, we can start working on making the game an enjoyable place to be. Not just for the elitists and cliques of "cool kids" — but for everyone. If we can start actually being a bit nicer to each other, that could be a good start for us, the players.
Cheesy movie-like pep speech over, but please do actually consider my words, kind traveller :^)
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Honestly... not a bad idea. It would definitely be interesting if certain vehicle-oriented missions provided both teams with coordinates to "secret stashes" or "weapon caches" containing rocket launchers. Of course they would have to be spawned somewhere between the car and the drop-off to allow the defending team to actually grab it and be able to use it — kind of like a side objective running side-by-side with the mission objective; you have to attack by getting the car to the drop-off, but you can defend somewhere else to deny the other team a utility.
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It's "Broken Chords" by WobsTasy.
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6 minutes ago, chaoscody said:well i can't be the only person out of a couple hundred who likes to push things
So you literally have no underlying motive beyond "trying to push things". Sheesh. At least the other people I've seen trying to justify using Nazi symbols in APB were more creative with their excuses.
7 minutes ago, chaoscody said:and who appointed me? myself no need to be a smart patootie mate we're all friends i'd hope
Personally speaking, I'm afraid I don't exactly want to be friends with people who get their kicks out of using fascist symbols.
10 minutes ago, chaoscody said:so you're saying iron eagles, iron crosses, pepes, anarchist symbols, confederate flags, communist hammer & sickles and hand gesture OK sign they're all not allowed because a single someone can convey those as a symbol of hate?
Whoo boy, where do we even start with this one?
It kind of feels like you're trying to muddle the discourse by serving this hodgepodge of symbols, some of which are literal Nazi symbols (Iron Eagle, Iron Cross; worth mentioning, the German criminal code forbids the distribution and public use of symbols such as these) and some of which are false flag memes (the OK hand sign, which is an innocent expression that some morons on the Internet tried to bait the media into deeming a hate symbol). Putting them on the same level feels dishonest.
We live in stupid times in which an innocent web comic character can get turned into a hate symbol. Observe the context and the person using the symbol — humans have the ability to contextualize the things they say and do.
If it's your friend reacting to something on Twitch with
, they're probably just reacting to a scary situation on the stream they're watching.
If it's some Internet rando posting Pepe in clown makeup and also spouting some bullcrap about other races and politics, they're probably using the symbol with an agenda.
It's all about context. Pepe has that ambiguity behind him, so if you really want to distinguish the intent, you need to contextualize the use of the symbol. Some symbols don't have that ambiguity. Let's be honest: nobody in APB is ever going to hold history lessons and create Nazi uniforms for "educational purposes". If someone's using Nazi symbols on their character or their car or anywhere, they a) are Nazi trash, b) are kids who don't comprehend the meaning of those symbols yet, c) are edgy cretins who are doing it deliberately just to get some kicks out of it... and in all cases this is not acceptable and should be reported.
Simple as that.
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34 minutes ago, chaoscody said:i and many others
Who are those "many others" that you speak of? Who appointed you to be their spokesperson anyway?
36 minutes ago, chaoscody said:shit like "no nazi symbols" is too vague
If you are unable to tell what sort of symbols would be forbidden just from reading sentences like "no nazi symbolism", I'd bargain you're under the recommended age restriction for this game.
There are some things that you really should know are not okay to create. This sort of stuff is (or should have been) taught to you in school. If you've paid any attention whatsoever in your history classes, you should know about the things perpetrated by Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler's rule. It's absolutely baffling to me why you would need someone to explain to you why swastikas are not okay to have on your APB character.
The part about "other cultural swastikas" is a pointless argument. Yes, the swastika was originally a religious symbol, which was appropriated by Nazi Germany. The magnitude of these crimes against humanity was such that almost universally, all over the world, the swastika lost its original meaning, and in the international culture it's predominantly associated with the Nazis. Practically no one in the general public will defend you if you put a swastika on your clothes and try to say that it's "not the nazi swastika, but some other swastika of some other religion". This is not how we understand that symbol anymore. (Bonus points if you also accuse those punishing you of "religious discrimination" because at that point you're making it painfully obvious that you're just trying to start shit and be edgy.)
Your best guidance is your common sense, really. If it's a hate symbol, it's a no-go. If it's full-blown porn, it's a no-go. If it discriminates other people, it's a no-go. Believe it or not, this is an online multiplayer game, with real people on the other side of the screen. It's not about how you interpret it — it's about how everyone who sees it will interpret it.
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Honestly, a very respectable decision in the face of the virus. Hopefully we all manage to persevere through this whole ordeal. Sure, the Engine Upgrade is important, but what's more important are human lives that may be at risk due to the pandemic. Kudos to Matt Scott for making the call and caring about the well-being of LO employees.
The "free premium to alleviate the boredom" thing is honestly one of the last things I expected to happen, but it is a move that is appreciated nonetheless.
To all of you reading this — both regular forum users and LO employees — remember to take all necessary precautions, keep yourself healthy and stay safe!
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32 minutes ago, Salvick said:Now, either if you are just defending RIOT stuff because you like it or because you or someone you know was part of the making off of that bad nightmare that everyone wants to forget, is still your personal opinion too as same as what I've said is mine.
Or — and bear with me on this one — I wasn't a big fan of RIOT nor was I friends with anyone involved in its development. I simply refuse to jump to absolutes and think of RIOT as a "total and utter failure on every conceivable front" like I've seen many people do.
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1 hour ago, Solamente said:i think @Kewlin made a more detailed post on why the new lore sucked, but my personal issue with the redhill stuff is that it’s all awful 10th grade fan fiction level even relative to the rest of apb lore - the characters are awful, the backstory is contrived, and some of the redhill lore almost directly contradicts existing lore rather than just being strangely disconnected like the specialists
no amount of “freshness” makes the seemingly low effort attempts acceptable imo
Not really going to debate this part since it's, well, your personal opinion and there's nothing wrong with having one, but I don't get the part about the characters. Wasn't Holland pretty much the only named character we've got out of it all? I guess there was also the whistleblower from the ARG, but the website seems to be down so I can't check how much character development we got out of that one.
1 hour ago, Solamente said:and the new legendary (besides not actually being a legendary because joker boxes suck) would be far more appropriate for a joker gunworks release, as they already have a history of taking “inspiration” from other companies’ products
Assuming you mean the reskins in Joker Distribution — fair point, actually. Still, I don't see anything wrong in having RHD as a manufacturer of (for example) more unconventional weaponry, considering that we already have some weapons that don't seem to have an apparent manufacturer — namely, all weapons from the Pack of Revelations.
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50 minutes ago, Salvick said:
What the legit f is "RedHill" ffs?
Thought we'd get rid completely of that player-made content failure that only thing it did was breaking the lore immersion of APB.Well, there's my nomination for the award of Today's Most Terrible Take.
For better or worse, the RIOT gamemode was a part of the game for a brief moment in time. It failed for several reasons, there's no denying that. But underneath the failed gamemode there is development of the world we play in. Do you remember that we've had an ARG that made players search for clues and look for answers as to who RedHill are? Do you realize that we still have Lawrence Holland residing in Social? Have you ever even noticed billboards around town changing as the ARG developed?
Please don't pretend that you give a rat's patootie about APB's lore. If anything, from a world-building standpoint RIOT was a breath of fresh air after literal years of absolutely nothing going on. Bringing up "lore immersion" is a silly position to take, considering how 1) very few people care about this game's lore, characters and world-building; 2) it's hard to believably and properly expand upon a world written by people who probably aren't even with the company anymore; 3) the lore has already been "ruined" by the addition of Specialists.
If you think that the events surrounding the RedHill Institute of Technology do not fit APB and that they "ruin the sanctity of lore" (choice of words up to personal preference), why are you not speaking up about how none of the Specialists are acknowledged by anyone who existed before them? Chung-hee is friends with Orlenz' and Chiza, Criminal missions reference the death of Jenna Casey, Michael Simeone namedrops Byron Bloodrose as the one who protects the Roses from CSA cyber-espionage — but DDog, Ernst, Aletta, Mischa, Birth and Gumball? They exist in their own bubble. They reference one another or the contacts who came before them, but they're practically never mentioned by any contacts who aren't a part of their group. How is the existence of the RedHill Institute of Technology a unique problem?
APB hasn't had any sort of real lore development for literal years now. San Paro itself remains suspended in 2010s, both in terms of its aesthetics/atmosphere and its world (as in characters and the events surrounding them). Practically all the Specialists do not exist in any mentions by their preceding contacts.
For all its faults, RIOT actually gave us an interesting plot thread and a potential third force who would want to exploit the two sides of the San Paro conflict. Expecting Little Orbit to just hush up and never bring up or reference what they've created is just an incredibly silly approach. Plus, as it is a research institute, it gives LO a perfect excuse to have more experimental weaponry that would not fit any other weapon manufacturer. Case in point: this very legendary, the LS1 "Corsair". STABBA Non-lethal is a company which has an outright policy of not manufacturing lethal weaponry. Having RedHill be responsible for developing a lethal version lets LO satisfy those people who have expressed interest in seeing an NL9-like slug shotgun.
As a community, we could really use a bit less negative thinking and a lot less of dealing in absolutes.
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Little Orbit have gone on record stating that they have no plans to allow for Joker Ticket trading.
On 9/10/2019 at 12:36 PM, Kevkof said:https://youtu.be/EKvAdRXOeYY#t=1h22m27s
Q: What do you think about adding contact weapons like the N-Tec, the JG and one to two slotted weapons to the JT store? And what about the idea to allow players to trade Joker Tickets as well as APB dollars? Or do you want to keep the premium currency as an account specific thing so players have to earn it.
A: I don't think we'll ever allow trading of JT's, I think it open the door to a whole host of problems. JT's will always be a character limited currency, but we're all for expanding what people can get through the Joker Store. I think the Joker store itself needs a bit of a work, I'd like the presentation to be better with better information to kind of help players make better choices. -
32 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:While technically true, that was all that could be said after the failure of the mode and the wasting of time and resources.
"well... I guess at least we learned stuff"
It wasnt originally intended as a learning experience, they actually expected the mode to succeed.
Good point. Still, I personally can't criticize them for knowing when to cut losses.
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29 minutes ago, Lign said:Time
Subjective at best. I see no problem with the current timespan of those final stages, especially considering the overtime mechanic. It's either that or final stages drag on forever.
11 minutes ago, Lign said:Every event LO made died in 2 days. The only one event that was fun is xmas gungame made by g1 that for the whole time it was up had at least two full instances. The last xmas event in prime time had 10 ppl only. So, what's the point of keep doing when they can fix the main gamemode
As I've said:
36 minutes ago, MartinPL said:[...] it allowed LO to get a grasp of the game's codebase, how the game logic operates, how to alter the gameplay flow, how to add entirely new assets to the game, and so on... [...]
Point is, the events weren't immensely successful in terms of attracting players, but they helped Little Orbit from a developer's standpoint, as they were able to make something out of APB's spaghetti code.
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11 hours ago, DiVaice_ said:1)Are you really trying to make the game better or you don't care about live version? Seriously, for the whole time of you owning APB you made only few good updates, at the same time, you made some bugs into the game that you haven't nerfed yet.
They've been kind of busy doing other things besides regular content updates.
11 hours ago, DiVaice_ said:2)Why can't you focus on the problems that you're able to fix with the current engine. I'm not talking about bad optimization that is not possible to fix on the current engine. I'm talking about gameplay problems
Because they are prioritising other things at the moment.
No bigger complaints towards subpoints #1, #2 and #6, 'cause yes, these are mostly valid concerns... however:
ad. #3) "just deleting" the whole system does not address the question of monetary rewards from various bounty levels. Both factions get 2.0x multiplier to rewards at Bounty 5, but different rewards at each level below that. How do we approach that? What do we do with the interface in the top left corner of the screen?
ad. #4) You're using the term "RNG" like you don't know what it actually means. Also, exactly what is wrong with 3-point holds and 1-point holds?
ad. #5) "Most of [the vehicles] are useless" ...and yet you only have a problem with the 4x4 Vegas outclassing the Bishada and the Jericho. You're forgetting about a lot of cars.
Just to name a few: there's Macchina Calabria Cosenza and Balkan Ravan (both cars are practically made out of paper); there's Han Veo (which is very average at best); there's Charge Cisco (which is good at speed and terrible at everything else, such as durability and grip...) and it doesn't stop there.
Practically every car besides the 4x4 Vegas has some kind of a problem holding it back from being competitive, the most prominent examples being the amount of HP and their ramming ability — and yet you only want improvements to be done to the Bishada and the Jericho?
11 hours ago, DiVaice_ said:3)Also, almost any modern f2p project has only cosmetic things in their ingame stores that doesn't affect the gameplay, I have no idea why you're still going with that old fashion that makes thinking every newbie that the game is hard p2w. Also you trying to fix some weapons from contacts but u didn't try to fix their analog from armas.
APB is literally not pay-to-win anymore. You can get permanent weaponry without spending real money. Nothing you can get for money gives you a straight advantage that is not available to non-paying players. What are you talking about here?
11 hours ago, DiVaice_ said:4)Weapon balance. You're listening to the players who don't play the game on high skill level. Me and some of the russian players daily playing arranged and sometimes we play in the prototype district. Changes you're making to the shotguns don't make sense. You and most of the players who sits on forums don't understand how huge impact JG or CSG can provide with cornercamping or with cargameplay. You just kill every other cqc gun except maybe PMG. While NTEC gets a good change, not this garbage you made before that completely destroy the only one decent f2p Assault Rifle.
See, this is a part of a bigger problem that APB has — a massive identity crisis on whether it wants to be a casual game or a competitive game.
You could balance the game around the people who play the game every day, have every single mechanic figured out and can solo most fights... and that's going to leave you with changes that pretty much benefit only those players and leave everyone else in the dust. Instead of making it a game that's easy to learn but hard to master, you insist on making it a game that's hard to learn and hard to master.
As a sidenote: How about you contribute to discussions? How about you provide some of your feedback? If you're so knowledgeable on gameplay mechanics, show it. Voice your opinion in weapon balancing threads. You've literally made this account this year, this is your only post, and in that post you complain about how Little Orbit doesn't listen to you and players at "your skill level" — to which I have a question: have you ever even given them a chance to hear your opinion? Honestly, at this point you're complaining about LO not being able to read your mind.
11 hours ago, DiVaice_ said:5)Terrible EU servers. Server latency jumping like crazy.
They have been actively working on fixing those issues with the new server setup. What exactly is the problem here?
11 hours ago, DiVaice_ said:6)Player support. Why don't you want to support players that makes their own event. For example tournament that is going to happen. I tried to contact Matt about the tournaments but he doesn't care about it. Innova had supported tournaments or other events from players. You could type the special command in the chat to start the specific mission and instantly get the opposition.
Don't need to write that you're busy with the new engine. While upgrading the engine you made 3 pointless events that died in 2 days each one and RIOT that was an unfunny joke.Human resources management is a thing. Little Orbit can only allocate certain amounts of people to certain tasks. If you want to organize a tournament that's endorsed by Little Orbit, they would need to have at least one representative present there, in the form of a GM or someone with similar permissions. One GM would probably be not enough, two GMs would probably still mean complaints that it's not enough "care" from them — and the more GMs you have, the less GMs there are to tackle player issues not related to the tournament.
Also, can we please please pretty please grow out of that silly attitude that RIOT was pointless and a waste of time? It was being worked on concurrently with the Engine Upgrade (meaning it did not slow down the process, presumably due to a different team being allocated to it) and it allowed LO to get a grasp of the game's codebase, how the game logic operates, how to alter the gameplay flow, how to add entirely new assets to the game, and so on...
Yes, it wasn't perfect. Yes, it died quickly. You're absolutely allowed to have a negative opinion on it from a gameplay stance — but if you genuinely believe that nothing good came from those events/gamemodes and absolutely nobody benefitted from them in any way, you're just being dishonest.
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So this is what that news article on the RedHill Institute of Technology site was teasing. You guys have developed genetically altered bees in order to employ them as community managers later down the line!
I have seen through your machinations, Little Orbit!
I wish you the best of luck and lots of patience, Sakebee!
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April 2020 Legendary Weapon Survey
in General Discussion Archive
Posted
We've had a survey like this a good while ago... but a lot of time has passed since. In that time, we've had three additions to the legendary weapon pool, some changes and fixes here and there — might be worth it to assemble our opinions on the current state of the legendary weapons!
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScEnlWK6BGs4WdgT3F5xozNPbWc0SELvR9eEUKawOsSs6FLZw/viewform?usp=sf_link
One obvious change to the survey is the removal of the "No opinion" option since it didn't really indicate anything.
For reference, the results of the old survey can be found here.