Nagletz's Weapon Balance Feedback

[Nagletz's Weapon Balance Feedback]

PIG, Snub and DMR-SD are so useless. They need to be buffed.

[Pig is now useless]

Just now, Preme said:

I did not refer to perc+pig at all to begin with and if you didnt want easy arrests you wouldnt have wanted a stun gun that slows the enemy down just so you have enough time to take the kill which is done in a easy way sine the enemy is alreayd slowed down and low on stamina, so yeah you do want easy kills but dont worry bud youre not the only one here, all these pro enforcers you see here dont want their lovely LTL guns touched because they know how good it is.

But the reason given for the change by LO is PIG + Perc. Maybe read the change notes before commenting. your last sentence makes it obvious that you are either trolling or are clueless. Not gonna waste my time with you any further.

[Pig is now useless]

1 minute ago, Preme said:

99% of the time you get arrested there isnt a chance of being rescued while in the mean time enforcers get all that extra time in advantage because a player can not do anything until he respawns. 

 

And its not underpowered at all, i dont wanna imagine it being any better since once u get someone arrested you get the time advantage. 

 

And its even worse when you got those enforcers who prolong it until the last seconds so they can keep the good players of the match while the rest is doing the missions. 

 

Thats why it gotta be either entirely removed, or reduced in time for arresting and being stunned. Or give criminals a same thing so we can make yall feel how it feels to be stunned and prolonged the time on, and teabagged while youre helpless.

Dude half of the lethal secondaries are better than the LTL primaries. Just by the numbers. The fastest LTL primary to stun someone is the Stabba with 1.050 sec TTS. While lethal secondaries like the Yukon ( .78 secs), Showstopper (.70 secs), Colby .45 (.8 secs) or even the FBW (1.0 secs) are more powerful and kill faster.

 

The statement that LTL is not underpowered is absurd. You clearly haven't used them.

[Pig is now useless]

6 minutes ago, owzzy said:

Seems like people think the PIG is a primary weapon. It isn't; it's a secondary weapon which is intented to be used as a last resort. Perhaps LTL primaries do need to be buffed, but a secondary that can stun someone in almost 1 shot is a gimmick and shouldn't be in the game. Reminds me of the pre-nerf yukon times (just not as severe).

Yeah. Almost isn't good enough for an arrest.

 

And the Yukon can still kill in .78 secs and the Showstopper in .70 faster than any primary LTL.

 

Until there is a comprehensive rebalance of the LTL they shouldn't have nerfed the PIG. And the reason given for the PIG change was the PIG + Perc combo. Removing stamina damage from the Percs would have resolved that problem.

[Pig is now useless]

On 9/23/2020 at 10:44 AM, Preme said:

Aww how sad that you actually have to work for it now instead of taking easy arrests 

PIG + Perc still works! If I wanted easy arrests I could just use that.

 

Merged.

 

On 9/23/2020 at 10:26 AM, Preme said:

The stun and the time youre in cuffs should be lowered by 50%

You want to nerf the LTL further? It's difficult enough to get to the stunned player in time to make the arrest. If you reduce the time in cuffs by 50% you would also reduce the time for a teammate to rescue you.

 

LTL is used by 5% (my guess) or less of the player base. And the reason why it is used so little is because it's underpowered and often frustrating to use. Why are people suddenly coming out of the woodworks and demanding it to be nerfed? 

[Pig is now useless]

1 hour ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

 it was easily a win ticket if the group all went LTL weapons,

LOL. If that were the case every enforcer would have use it and groups with LTL would have had a 100% win ratio. Which is obviously not the case. 

 

Your arguments are ridiculous.

 

LTL was always underpowered and now its worse. The fact that it takes longer to respawn is a reward for the enforcers because they have to overcome higher TTK/TTS against lethal weapons. That was always the concept of LTL. And even G1 didn't change it because it was not a problem for 10 years. But suddenly PIG is supposed to be OP. What a joke.

[Pig is now useless]

One aspect of the nerf wasn't mention yet (I think):

 

A hit from the old PIG would slow the target down and made it harder to dodge bullets or run away. This is now completely taken away from the weapon. The target can now just run away from the PIG and since it takes 2.25secs for the next shot. It's easy to get beyond the 10m distance limit of the PIG.

 

Utter trash that nerf. Absolutely not thought thru.

 

Please revert it.

[Weapon Balance]

To sum it up.

 

LO nerfed: Snub and PIG

and buffed: Joker and OCA

 

I haven't spend any money on the game since 2014 or so. Only playing sporadically now. Mostly with LTL (without Percs). Changes like these don't give me any confidence that LO will do a better job than G1. I guess I am gonna play even less now (=~5% drop in the NA pop) if these changes stand.

[Pig is now useless]

2 minutes ago, Kevkof said:

But that aside, most people don't do 2 pig shots and use it more to finish off the stamina damage done with another weapon.

And that's why the nerf is such a big deal.

[Pig is now useless]

5 minutes ago, Kevkof said:

 

The reload is 1.25 seconds, so you would be able to shoot again after that time.

The Fire Interval only matters if you would have more than 1 round in the magazine.

 

APBDB's info comes from the straight form the game files as those are provided to those running the DB.

The APBDB was updated to the values for v. 1.20.0.833440 as of today.

From 1 shot to the next it takes 2.25 secs. I just tested it.

[Pig is now useless]

1 minute ago, Noob_Guardian said:

No-one is asking to keep pig the same, 800-850 stamina damage would have been sufficient, not 650 for one 10m shot with a .52/.6 equip with a 1.25s reload (with constant ghost shots).

I think the reload time is 2.25. APB Database seems to be incorrect.

[Pig is now useless]

1 hour ago, Kempington said:

You'd have to basically remove the stamina damage from percs if you wanted to keep the PIG the same as it was.

Sounds like a plan to me.

1 hour ago, Kempington said:

Another one of the big issues with the PIG was the fact that any primary weapon could setup the PIG for a stun in one shot. Pair that up with cover, corners, getting the drop on someone and they would have absolutely no time to react or respond to you doing what you're doing.

That there is no time to react is a general problem with APB game play design . Has nothing to do with the PIG.

1 hour ago, Kempington said:

A pretty notorious combo for this was the ISSR-B + PIG combo. Tap them once with the ISSR-B and immediately stun them with the PIG. It really wasn't hard to do. Plus, you had a primary weapon that could easily play up to 85m, so you weren't exactly limited in range.

I agree the ISSR shouldn't deal so much stamina damage.

1 hour ago, Kempington said:

You can still PIG + Perc, but you actually have to hit them with the perc, not just throw it remotely close to them.

I don't want to PIG + Perc. I would be happy if they would remove the Percs from the game.

[Pig is now useless]

55 minutes ago, Motorola said:

people mad they have to throw 2 percs now instead of 1 to use the pig... yikes.

Stop trolling. Nobody here is arguing to keep PIG + Perc as it was.

 

Removing/reducing the stamina damage or reducing the stamina damage blast radius for the Percussion Grenades is a better solution. Since it doesn't completely alters/nerfs the whole LTL dynamic. Which is an unintended consequence of the current PIG nerf.

[Pig is now useless]

I agree. It's pretty much useless now. Turned from a high risk - high reward weapon into a high risk weapon.

 

What's the point of having a secondary with max 10m range and a TTS 2.25s? That is more than twice the TTS of the TG-8 plus the range limit. And when you miss 1 shot with it the TTS is at 4.5s. That makes absolutely no sense.

 

The only combination the PIG now works with is the Stabba. Since it is half useful at close range, but it works much worse than before because of the increased TTS. It makes no sense with the NL9 or the O-PGL 79 CD.

 

The PIG nerf was a nerf for the whole LTL arsenal which was totally not needed. If you want to balance the weapons including LTL you need to buff the rest of the LTL  since they are all under powered.

 

The Nano is now a better LTL option than the PIG which is just stupid.

 

Please revert the PIG nerf and reduce the stamina damage or stamina damage blast radius for the Percussion Grenades instead. It will accomplish the same goal but leaves LTL intact or at least the way it was.

3 hours ago, Kempington said:

The PIG on its own wasn't a huge deal. The problem was how well it performed switching to and from it.

 

With no other reasonable change viable, the stun damage reduction allows the pig to be a great finisher and game changer, but requires more skill and initial effort in order to set it up.

 

You can still PIG + perc, but the perc can't just clip the target. It has to do full damage to stun, practically.

Removing the stamina damage or stamina damage blast range from the Percs would have done the same without nerfing LTL.

[Weapon Balance]

I tried the nerfed PIG and my suspicions are true. It's pretty much useless now. Turned from a high risk - high reward weapon into a high risk weapon.

 

What's the point of having a secondary with max 10m range and a TTS 2.25s? That is more than twice the TTS of the TG-8 plus the range limit. And when you miss 1 shot with it the TTS is at 4.5s. That makes absolutely no sense.

 

The only combination the PIG now works with is the Stabba. Since it is half useful at close range, but it works much worse than before because of the increased TTS. It makes no sense with the NL9 or the O-PGL 79 CD.

 

The PIG nerf was a nerf for the whole LTL arsenal which was totally not needed. If you want to balance the weapons including LTL you need to buff the rest of the LTL  since they are all under powered.

 

The Nano is now a better LTL option than the PIG which is just stupid.

 

Please revert the PIG nerf and reduce the stamina damage or stamina damage blast radius for the Percussion Grenades instead. It will accomplish the same goal but leaves LTL intact or at least the way it was.

[Weapon Balance]

Just now, ReaperTheButcher said:

I heard that phrase too many times from clowns like you, you dont actually play the game by the looks of it.

I am a clown? I stated facts. If you don't believe me try it out yourself:

Hit someone with the PIG and then hit 3 shots with STAR, Joker or N-TEC. The PIG does 950 stamina damage plus each round of the rifles do 20 stamina damage that results in 1010 in total stamina damage. But it will not result in a stun. Because those rifles don't have the ability to stun. Very simple.

[Weapon Balance]

26 minutes ago, Frosi said:

The PIG has no reason to be at 950 Stamina damage, it allows for way too many unintended mechanics such as "Pig-Switching" that reduce its actual time to stun to .6 (Equip time of the PIG). This works with a ton of weapons in the game. The ISSR-B for example deals 170 stamina damage a shot and is extremely good in CQC, there is no pushing someone that is using that Combo as they will take you out of the game almost instantly, especially if they have cover to hide behind. Rather than adjusting all of these weapons to have less stamina damage the PIG had its reduced so it is mostly the same but don't have its primary interactions come down to cheesing it into a 1 shot stun.

This was not the reason given for the change. The reason was the PIG + Perc combo.

 

There are tons of weapon combinations, that don't involve the PIG, that are difficult to push. But that is a general problem of the game play design as i stated further up.

 

LTL is under powered and now it even gets nerfed. G1 hasn't touched LTL since the beta version. If this is supposed to be a thorough weapon balance, the rest of the LTL weapons all need a buff.

[Weapon Balance]

1 minute ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

Most weapons have less stamina damage than health damage, if the stamina damage is higher then health damage you will result in stunning the player and not killing him, you are probably a new player and dont understand that..

That is wrong. I am playing the game since closed beta.

[Weapon Balance]

14 minutes ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

This is the same thing, stunning players is dealing stamina damage,

That is WRONG. Only a few weapons have the ability to stun (all LTL weapons, nano, dmr, most or all grenades; explosives can stun too i believe). Other weapons can NOT stun. But most weapons deal stamina damage.

[Weapon Balance]

Please revert the changes of the PIG. 

 

Instead reduce or remove the stamina damage of the Percusion Grenades or just remove them all together from the game.

 

Or if you need to keep PIG the stamina nerf:

• reduce the reload time
• increase the range
• improve accuracy while moving

To compensate for the nerf.

 

Merged.

 

4 hours ago, lilpiggy said:

Instead reduce or remove the stamina damage of the Percusion Grenades or just remove them all together from the game.

Or just remove the ability for the Percusion Grenades to stun.

[Weapon Balance]

36 minutes ago, wHisHi said:

Increase TTK and remove health regen? You understand what you are asking?

Yes. The game had a higher TKK in its inception.

 

The map design with its wide open spaces and no cover, the ability to look around corners without being seen. The long animations when opening doors, climbing ladders and fences etc. The horrible client/server performance. All of that makes no sense for a twitch shooter. And lowering the TTK without adjusting all the other elements was the biggest mistake that was done to the game. And with G1 no longer running the game i was hoping that some real changes would come to game that improved the game play. But regarding the game play LO hasn't done anything that would bring my hope for the game back. Sadly.

[Weapon Balance]

Quote

The combination of Percussion Grenades and the PIG can be oppressive. By lowering the stamina damage of the PIG from 950 to 675, we are forcing users to hit their percussion grenade more accurately and follow up the throw with a shot from the PIG faster. This should preserver the strategy but make the combination require more skill to pull off.

Instead of the nerfing the PIG you should just nerf the stamina damage of the Percussion Grenades.

 

LTL is under powered as it is.

 

And nerfing the Snub? Just LOL.

 

Please consider making real changes to the game play like removing automatic health recovery or introduce limited health recovery. Increasing the TKK in general. These weapon balances won't safe the game. The game play has deeper problems.