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  1. Posted · Edited by PvE

    On 2/3/2020 at 8:40 PM, Noob_Guardian said:
     

    @PvE Okay so here's my "short version" analysis and suggestions. Some I would say do in "waves" if the first change isn't nearly enough.  This means a lesser change to the weapon at first for a time, BEFORE the harsher version of the nerf/buff. First wave or suggestion (*) Second wave (^). While this seems complicated it is done to prevent a potential over buff/nerf. Others I will agree with. Current stats for weapons will look like this.

     

             Assault Rifle Ammo in general - I'm not really for it, however, I can understand the reason behind it. I do agree it could be done without effecting game play too much. As such i'll ignore discussing AR ammo changes later in as i'll take an impartial stance to it.

     

    Weapons:

    N-TEC:

            While the NTEC is somewhat dominant in CQC and Mid-Long rang, and the jump modifier can be seen as likely the primary issue issue in cqc, the weapon also performs extremely and potentially too well, past 50-57m.

          - Increase Shot Cap -  2.0* then 2.4^

         - Increase jump Modifier 20

       --------------------------------------------

          - Reduce Bloom Recovery to 4.0^ - 4.25* from 5.0 - This puts it a little bit more in line with Star/far without making it as slow to recover as they are.

          - Further Harshen the Damage Drop Off at starting at 57m without IR3 64m with.

     

           While I understand the need for a mid-range AR that is effective IN it's range, i'd suggest these changes in "addition" to the the suggested ones in the list. This is in hopes that it can further allow the Obeya and other mid-long range weapons to be more effective in their "further" ranges, while giving Star and Far a "little" more breathing room.

     

    Star: Good

     

    Ursus: Good

    Not a bad change and one I can get behind. Puts it in similar TTK as the Star while still dealing good damage, and still being 5 HTK.

     

    Misery: Good

     

    Cobra:

          - ROF Decrease: .160

    Decrease Shot Modifier Cap: Read Below

     

           I feel that going to .25 may be a bit too much, its already got fairly low bloom so putting a cap that low would end up making it into a laser. While I agree that it was meant to be somewhat like a full auto carbine, i’d rather not make it into a psuedo carbine that everyone will complain about due to how effective it is, but I do feel it may bloom a little too much. So:

           - Per shot modifier: .375

           - Shot modifier Cap: .300* or .275^

     

    LCR: 

            We have to worry about how this change can effect the old glory as well, as that is generally the “best” version of the lcr and most used, also I do currently enjoy the LCR old glory as-is, but i can see why you’d want to change it,  so I’d suggest a different set of changes than the one to you suggested which would make it more mid-range oriented. Not to “Say absolutely no” to your suggestion, however I do also currently like the weapon’s range and niche. This change could be considered an “alternate” change to make it a little more effective in its current range. (generally we have test A and test B districts, as such I feel this could be the alternate to your suggestion)

     

    Remain in Current Niche:

           - Increase ROF to:  .290* or .285^ instead of .300 - The CJ3 Varient makes it .285 currently, it feels fine with old glory ROF. CJ3 would further decrease this.

           - Accuracy at 10m: 12 cm from 13cm - Make it a little more accurate.

           - Decrease Marksman Modifier to .6* then .575^

           - No Range Nerf -

     

            This is to allow it to be better in its current niche, rather than work it into closer ranged version. I would be weary of how “effective” this change would make it if changing the base spread at range, if too great then instead.

     

           - Decrease Marksman Modifier to .575* then .55^

          

     

    Carbine: -No change-

              This weapon is well disliked already by many because of how effective it is regardless of if you consider it an “RNG” cannon.  I would keep the current stats on it as is without changing the weapon because of its current ease and effectiveness.

     

     

    Bullshark:

    Adjust it’s TTK to be more in line with other “mid range” weapons.

           - Time to Kill: .9^ or 1.0* from 1.2

           - Slightly lower ROF of shots of subsequent busts.

    It’s a unique weapon and likely will be hard to rebalance to be more usable. 

     

    Obir: Good

    I have no issues with this change, it lessens the slightly excessive overkill while it remains effective.

     

    Shredder:

            Hard to balance for its range and TTK as known from previous weapon reworks due to ray scaling. It’s not terrible in cqc combat, however it’s definitely better at the fringes of the cqc effective range which has been effectively removed due to recent nerfs. Without ray scaling it wasn’t much of a great weapon due to spread. Currently decreasing TTK would allow it to be more in-line with it’s current “nerfed” variant (not PTR) and CQC range. I much prefered the original shredder, and felt that it only needed slight tweaking to be a little more effective. I’d suggest this, from the base shredder (not current but before shotgun rework).

     

          - Decrease Fire Interval to .410

          - Increase Range: Base Range pre-rework

          - Increase spread to 47.5* cm 50cm^ from 45cm at 10m

          - Increase pellets to 10* or 11^ from 9

     

    Hopefully this will give it it’s range back and make it a little more effective without making it broken.

     

    JG/CSG

    I feel like the need to make shotguns easier to counter via 3 shot is better because of lack of counterplay than changing their ROF and damage slightly. Any weapon in cover has a direct advantage already .10s and a slightly less hp damage isn’t going to fix that, while it does effectively make shotguns much worse than oca/pmg in cqc without cover (and effectively almost always dead without cover.) This isn’t a great idea imo, i know this from using the ODIN Series which has a .79 ttk and can be really rough to use because of. As such:

     

    JG:

           - Max Health Damage: 445 from 775

           - TTK: Remain the Same

           - Spread at 10m: 125cm* or 135cm^ from 150cm

           - Mag Size: 12 from 8

     

    CSG/TAS:

    Interesting Idea with slugs however may be more suited to the shredder which is already a ranged shotgun. 

    If In line with the JG changes:

           - Max Health Damage: 400 from ~660

           - Mag size: 12 from 8

     

    NFAS:

           - Damage Reduction: Good - IF TTK remains the same or increased to .62/.63

           - Reload Time - Good

           - Mag size - 10 from 7

    An increased mag size is necessary if its damage is reduced. Otherwise it will only get 1 kill per mag at 7 rounds unless lucky.

     

    Strife :

    The strife is meant to be a heavy heavy hitter while having really bad TTK. The TTK is offset with cover usage, however it doesn’t negate that it can quickly and easily become useless in close quarters if miss, a partial hit, or no cover. It is very high risk high reward. If it does get a nerf then:

           - No Range Decrease

           - Decrease damage to 900* or 885^ from 937

     

    PMG: Good

     

    H-9 Curse:

     

          - Damage drop off range to 40m

          - Increase Damage to 112

          - Make Time to Kill 0.74s

     

               The change to the TTK is because reducing the one bullet makes its TTK go from .765 to 0.68 after the first shot is fired, this TTK is faster than most CQC weapons and would kill slightly faster than OCA even if it missed once with a .7ttk at 8 shots. If this is going to become more of a cqc-mid sub machine gun, then it shouldn’t interfere too harshly on other cqc weapons. Maintain a slightly higher TTK than .7, while still giving it more range and damage.

     

    OCA ‘Whisper’: Good

    I see no real need to change this gun, it doesn’t really seem to be overpowered, though I can understand wanting to change it to be more in-line with the base weapon without seeming to be “pay to win”. As such I won’t disagree with this change.

     

    HVR: No Changes

    I’m not too keen on nerfing the HVR further, it’s already been hit really hard in the attempt to nerf quick switching on it. Quick switching is already non viable because of the current changes of the HVR. (Personally I hate the current iteration of HVR, and would have much prefered to remove the ability to use purple mods on the HVR in general, pinging someone 2-3x crouching then shooting crouched doesn’t kill someone while out of mm most of the time it seems)

     

    ISSR-B: 

    This weapon’s TTK is kept in line by its bloom gain for longer ranges, but I don’t agree entirely with the suggested changes for the sniper and would likely change a few other aspects.

     

          -Damage Drop off range 85m from 90m

          -Decrease Hard Damage to 50 from 72.9

          -Increase ttk to 1s from .9s

          -Shot modifier .6* or .65^ from .5

          -Recovery delay .40 from .45

     

    ISSR-A:

    Meant to feel like the ISSR-B but be a mid ranged variant as such:

     

          -Increase range to 55m from 50m

          -Adjust the damage after damage drop to be slightly sharper down

          -Per shot modifier 1.0* or ^0.75 from 1.50

          -Recovery Delay .3* or .250^

     

           The weapon feels clunky to use, it gains a lot of bloom, has a high ttk for midrange, and spends lot of time waiting for bloom to recover. Hopefully this change makes it a little bit less clunky.

     

    Scout:

    CA-3 was nerfed to mitigate damage done, which was already a direct buff to this weapon. You can now fire 3-4 shots before having to worry about clotting agent. (pretty sure it’s 3). I think a more minor damage adjustment would be better at first.

     

          -Increase damage to 565* or 580^ from 550  instead

     

    Euryale: Good

    I’m not opposed to these changes, it is a bit too powerful.

     

    Alig: Good

    The weapon needs to be a little more accurate in general to be somewhat effective against players. 

     

    ACT 44:

     

          - Range decrease to 60m from 70m

          - Accuracy at 10m 18.5cm  from 20cm

          - Marksman Modifier - .35

         

            Act 44 has always felt more CQC than the RSA, as such decreasing its range somewhat makes sense, however to help fix the accuracy issue I would suggest tweaking the base accuracy to be more accurate.

     

    RSA:

          - Accuracy at 10m 15cm from 16cm

          - Marksman modifier .35

     

    Keep range the same, change the Modifier and 10m accuracy to improve it.

     

    RFP: 

          - Damage Drop off: 30m

          - Decrease Mag Capacity to 18 from 24

    You have an incorrect amount of bullets in a 3 shot mag in your chart for the RFP, I suggest making it full bursts, rather than 5 with 1 shot left over.

     

    Showstopper:

           It’s a CQC shotgun pistol with a low TTK. It’s not as effective now as it had been. Damage is fine, you say ttk is too low, yet want to make it a 4 shot kill with a 1.05 ttk with a sub 10m range which would effectively make it worse than every CQC based pistol AND cqc-mid range pistol ingame. Ironically .45 has a ttk of .8 and you’d be putting a pistol with a fraction of the range to be far worse than this which can reach out far further and is far better with your suggested change without suggesting a rework of the .45.  For the Showstopper instead I suggest:

     

          - Increase ttk to .75s* or 0.8s^ from .7s

    To make it align with the fr0g more

     

    Or

     

          - No change

     

    This puts the showstopper line with the TTK of the Fr0g in cqc or leaves it as a middleman between the NFA and the Fr0g/.45.

     

          -  I would suggest no TTK change be done to the Thunder variant of the Showstopper if this rework were to go through, so changes may have to be done to the mod/weapon to effectively keep it the same as is.

     

    SNUB: Good

    OSCP: Good

     

    PIG: No Change

    There is no way to reasonably change this weapon without severely gimping an already hard to use and underpowered role.

     

    IF a nerf MUST happen then I would suggest:

     

          - Stamina Damage to .900* or 850^ from 950 instead.

          - No ammo change

     

    This leaves it to still be very effective as a finisher and useful against slightly tagged enemies (which is what it’s supposed to be) without severely nerfing it to near uselessness.

     

     

    Harbinger: Good

     

    Percussion: 

    I agree with a slight nerf, however I feel that 450 may be too harsh, I’d suggest :

     

          - Explosion radius 500* or 475^ from 550- no lower

          - Stamina Damage - 250 from 350

     

    The fix for Reducing pig/perf effectiveness is a hard call, however making the pig harder to use without touching the PERC’s stamina damage is not the way to go about “fixing” it.

     

    Low Yield Grenade:

    I have long wanted low yields to be 2 instead of 3 because of spammability. However, with their current reduced damage and seeing how that feels to play against, reducing their range “may” be enough to bring it much further in line without making it so you have 2. As such:

     

          - Decrease Radius to 600

          - No Change to Carry Capacity* OR Reduce capacity to 2^ from 3

     

    Stun Grenade: No Change

    While it can be infuriating to be 1 shot stunned with them, the entire less than lethal role is far weaker than lethal, and nerfing one of the only decent, hard to use, and high skill cap things ingame for it, does not make sense to me without first buffing less then lethal as a whole first. So I would suggest no change, at least until LTL gets fully reworked to be more useful.

     

    Volcano: Agree

     

    Stun OPGL:

    Max Rank Cop Item, hard to get, I disagree with the extent of the suggested changes. The Radius is HUGE that’s for sure, however that’s because it is literal gas, and not an explosion IF the range has to be reduced, i’d say 850cm across the board, no less. So:

     

          - Decrease the Radius to 850cm from 1000cm

          - Increase Max Damage Radius to 200cm from 150cm

     

    OR

     

          - No Radius Change

          - Decrease Stamina damage to 850* or 800^

          - Increase Max Damage Radius to 200cm from 150cm

     

    OR

          - Decrease the Radius to 850cm from 1000cm

          - Increase Max Damage Radius to 200cm from 150cm

          - Reduce Mag Size to 3 from 4

     

    I cannot agree to nerfing the LTL opgl as harshly as suggested due to the difference between being stunned and being killed. However there are several other ways to potentially reduce its spammability. It cannot oneshot as suggested, however it does piggyback well off any fall damage/stamina damage.

     

    Every well thought out and informative changes i really appreciate the effort that you went through with this post.

    • NTEC - Bloom recovery decrease might be doable but a large amount already don't use NTEC in it's current state.
    • COBRA - Good change.
    • LCR - Probably needs more input and refinement.
    • Carbine - Disagree completely this gun just isn't as good as it should be largely that being with it's RNG mechanics.
    • Bullshark - Probably needs more input and refinement.
    • JG/CSG - Not to entirely sure about the 3 STK on a shotgun would work in today's APB i'm for the 2 shot just a slower ROF to increase the TTK.
    • NFAS - This just makes NFAS a 4 STK from a 3 and will have a very good CQC ttk in comparison to current shotguns.
    • Strife - I feel this is a good median between all the input received i'm leaving as is.
    • Curse - TTK can be decreased with a ROF increase.
    • HVR - Completely disagree this is just as much of a nerf as it is a buff.
    • ISSR B - Considered.
    • ISSR A - Considered.
    • Scout - Don't even think it would matter much even if you increased the damage to 600.
    • ACT 44 - Seems reasonable to have the ACT more "close range" oriented over the RSA.
    • RFP - Seems reasonable.
    • Showstopper - Used both variants they are completely dominate if you can aim.
    • PIG - Completely disagree this gun is probably the most powerful in the right hands.
    • PERC - Seems reasonable.
    • YOLO - Probably needs more input and refinement.
    • Stun OPGL - Probably needs more input and refinement.

  2. Posted

    7 hours ago, Lign said:

    Some changes don’t make sense to me. For example why do you want Ursus to have faster ttk? It overshoot ntec at 50-60m because tapping fire interval is the same for both weapons but ursus has 5stk. The same for pmg. I agree that it needs drop range nerf but there’s no reason in buffing its ttk. It’s stronger than oca due to the fact that it has less stk. it means that at the same ttk as oca has pmg is more forgiving at losing tracking on enemy. I also don’t understand why you want to nerf crouch modifier. I use it pretty often with pmg.

     

    But I also see very good suggestions such as scout dmg buff and carbine accuracy buff. At the moment carbine is missing accuracy. At cqc it sucks due to slow ttk comparing to smg/shotties. If you put cooling jacket then be ready to suffer from rng because after 3rd shot bloom size is too big. On mid range below 40m it can’t compete against Oscar or ntec again due to terrible accuracy. If the carbine receives an accuracy buff it’s gonna be the most balanced weapon in the game

     

    You have to understand what these stat changes do. Increasing the fire interval results in a slower ROF.

  3. Posted

    1 minute ago, Mojibaked said:

    I fully agree with the idea that carbine has RNG issues, and more recovery could certainly help since it often has to compete with weapons that do not suffer from bloom at all (or almost at all) such as PMG or OSCAR. 

     

    However, I disagree with the idea suggestion making the NFAS 4 shots to kill, before pellet spread was introduced it was much harder to use despite its higher maximum damage, and it was far from meta. I also can't really suggest anything since it's not clear yet how the NFAS will behave once current shotgun changes hit live. The biggest issue with its current iteration is the 0.84 per ray scaling (in combination with 381 max damage) which is far too low for a weapon which can shoot such a large amount of pellets in a short time. 

     

    Perhaps other changes to the very least used weapons would also come in handy, such as the Harbinger getting bumped up to 300-320 damage due to Clotting Agent prevalence.

    Even if you made the NFAS a 4 STK it's still completly viable due to it's high ROF. The only other possible change is the ROF which would still result in a slower TTK. 

    Thank you for the Harbinger buff adding that.

  4. Posted

    On 1/30/2020 at 1:32 PM, Nevv said:

     

    • Skimming through the document, I get a slight feeling that some weapons were over-nerfed based on how overpowered or irritating they previously were. Just a reminder to use an objective mindset when dealing with such weapons.

     

    Can't be constructive without offering what weapon in specific your talking about.

  5. Posted

    39 minutes ago, Freewind said:

    You're one of the first to like my Strife rework. Fancy that.

     

    Last I remember reading the ISSR-B there was a ROF change, which I didn't really appreciate. I could see tapping the hard damage down to about 50 or so, but I disagree with nerfing it's range. Especially by that much. If you did that you might as well put it in the rifle category and not the sniper rifle category, but even then it'd probably be outclassed in that category anyway. Could also just leave it as I rarely see people up in arms complaining about it.

    Good point but you have to remember the Oblivion exists with a 90m range and slower ROF. So i probably need to add that to the list and rework it also. :^l

  6. Posted

    14 minutes ago, RemoteDet said:

    Ntec:



     

    I like the jump shooting aspect, but it's too accurate.

     

    nerf jump shooting slightly.

    i'd also consider raising the ttk to .75

    i'd also consider making the gun 10% more innacurate.  i feel the gun benefits too strongly from hs3.

     

    keep the magazine nerf, but consider a number that works with magazine pull 3.

     

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Star:

     

    I wouldn't touch this gun.  even the ammo

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ursus: 

     

    Lower the damage of the gun to 205. 

     

    raise the ttk to 0.75

     

    keep the range at 50M  Maybe make the minimum damage % of the gun lower.  Like 25% could work.

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ATAC: 

     

    Increase the vertical recoil on this gun.  Currently it's just too easy to control.

    It doesn't need a ttk nerf.  It's just noob proof.

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Misery: 

    Now this gun is whack.

     

    It should be 55M with a minimum damage % of 35%

     

    0.8

    Lower the recoil.

     

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    COBR-A: 

     

    I want this gun to be a auto matic slightly worse accuracy on-the-move carbine.

     

    40m range

    moderate bloom on move. think huntress

    10% more accurate than a carbine while standing.

    good marksman.  think similar to atac on full bloom.

     

    0.75 ttk.

     

    6 shots to kill

     

    190 damage.

     

     

     

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    LCR:

    odd gun again. it just isn't accurate, and sometimes it feels like it misses.  so maybe it shoots outside of the crosshair more than it should.

    i'd lower the ttk as well.  maybe consider making it shoot farther to compete with obeya/obir.

     

    1.0 ttk.

    65m range

     

    5 hits to kill.  240 damage per shot.

     

    make the marksman mode better.  It just sucked.

     

     

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Marksman

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Carbine: 

     

     

    maybe consider making the bloom recovery better

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    FFA “Bullshark”: WIP

     

    this gun is dumb.  make it start off by shooting 3, and lower the damage.  make it a really tough 3 shot kill.

     

    120 damage per shot.  9 shot ttk.  have to hit 3 then 3 then 3.  shoots 3, 4 ,5 ,6, 7, 8.  it has 40 ammo.  

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Obir / FFA 3 Slot: WIP

     

    Possibly lower damage to make it 150 damage a shot with slightly faster marksman movespeed.

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Pointman

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Shredder: 

     

    possibly consider increasing the range on this gun, and making it near a 1.2 ttk. 

    you could consider tightening the spread.

    maybe make it a 4 shot kill with 8 in the magazine.

     

    300 damage per shot.  and at 30m you can possible hit for 100 - 150.  You still have to chunk them, but they'll die like any other gun.

     

     

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    JG: 

    was it really 775???

     

     

    I'd make this a 600 blaster with a moderate spread.  at 20M you maybe hit for 200.

    0.85 ttk.  I think shotguns just shoot too fast to compete against sometimes.  

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    CSG/TAS: WIP

     

     

    i really want this to shoot slugs.  Tight spread with 450 damage.  aim bad and you miss.  shoots 25M,

     

    at 25M you should hit them for 250 - 350 with the potential 3 smacker if they're out in the open and you aim perfect center.  Think fast NL9.

     

    0.95 TTK. decent recoil.

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    NFAS: 

     

    0.7 TTK. competes with smgs.  4 shots to kill.  maybe lower the damage possibly. so you can't kill anyone at 15-20M with 6 shots.  I think something like 270 would be good.  you have to meat shot 4 times to kill them or close to it.

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Strife: 

     

    you know i like the changes you listed.

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    PMG/Bolt: 

     

    get rid of the crouch bonus accraucy or give that bonus to the OCA as well.

    range should be 25M i agree.

     

    I don't like how the PMG feels like it's RNG all the time as well.  SO maybe the range should be higher with no crouch bonus.

    35M range still with no crouch bonus could work.

     

    Possible other changes.  Make it the same .7 TTK but with 6 shots instead of 5.

    Sometimes the stars align, and you get that 5/5 ezpz.  Maybe going  away from 5 hits could make it less rng based.

     

    180 damage.  6 hits.  .7 ttk.  35M range. no crouch bonus

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    H-9 ‘Curse’: 

     

    i like the changes here.

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    OCA 'Whisper': 

     

    No crouch bonus and no 50m RANGE.  the extra zoom is good enough.  and it has the smg silencer.  maybe a marksman bonus movement would be good.

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sniper

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    HVR: 

     

    I'd honestly lower the damage to 745.  That way someone has to tag you with 2 bullets from most guns, or another hard  hitting weapon.

    It just sucks to get hit once they get spit on.  regen time after being hit sucks too

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    N-ISSR-B: 

     

    Lose the range. keep the fire interval.

    Shoots 70m now.

    45 hard damage is fair.

     

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ISSR-A: WIP

     

     

    I think this gun sucks.

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Scout: 

    This gun seems really fair.  I would leave it alone.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Machinegunner

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Euryale:

     

    more horizontal recoil.

    movementspeed.  Think NTEC LMG

    .65 TTK.

    Gun zooms into marksman slower so you can't just crouch slam people in CQC.  You need to have more punishment.

     

     

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Gunslinger

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    Act44 is stupid.  Slow down the ttk.  Slow down the Recoil.

    Less fire rate

    Maybe a 1.6 TTK

    Less horizontal recoil

     

    RSA is fair.  Leave that one alone.  you aim well, you hit.  The ttk is fine too.

     

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    RFP:

     

    maybe 15 round magazine.

    25M dropoff

    Decent sprint shooting

    Same ttk.

    Marksman mode should never be as good as it was.  Make is slightly more accurate thank oscar Marskman mode.  maybe like 10% more.

    Same recoil per shot, not much bloom.

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Showstopper:

     

    4 shot kill sounds fine.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Snub-Nose: 

    Increased mag capacity to 8 from 6 

    Increased damage to 333 from 300

     

    I like these two changes.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    OCSP: 

     

    This gun is problematic because the bloom recovery is very low.  It would be kinda cool if this was a 7 shot pelter from 35m

     

    Maybe think of increasing the bloom recovery.  It would make the gun very accurate, but if you go max fire rate, i feel it should act like a joker carbine with cj2 on it.  controllable bloom.

     

    7 hits would be fair.  possibly think of increasing the fire-rate to compensate.  1.15 ttk.  150 damage per shot.  35m range.  controllable bloom recovery with a semi-accurate first shot.

     

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    PIG:

    Decreased stamina damage to 600 from 950

    fair change

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Grenadier/Demolition

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Percussion Grenade: 

    Decrease explosion radius to 450 from 550

     

    also fair.  

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Low-Yield Grenade: Based on pre-nerf Low-Yields

     

    same damage. smaller blast radius.  and you carry 2.  I like that.

     

     

     

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Stun Grenade: 

    Decrease stamina damage to 750 from 1,000

     

    This will be fair because then you just get 2 shot by any other stun gun and you'll get stunned.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Volcano: 

    Increase equip time to 1.0 from 0.70 

    Increase fire interval to 1.25 from 1.00

     

    These changes seem fair.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Stun OPGL: 

    Decrease the radius to 750 from 1,000

    Decrease stamina damage to 750 from 980

     

    these changes also seem fair.

     

     

     

     

    Other guns i THought OF.

     

    aces rifle.  Make this gun have slightly lower bloom per shot.

    aces smg. Make this gun have slightly lower bloom per shot.

    The aces series are good, but if you hold them down, or burst with them too long, they just suck.  you could make the first 5 shots have a lot less recoil, so it would be more of a curve like the tommy gun.

     

     

    SCOPED NTEC - more accuracy while moving.  not quite an ntec but 60% of the difference sounds good.  i feel like that punishes the gun too much sometimes.  it already is outclassed.

     

    ALIG - less hard damage.  slower ttk.  same health damage. more accurate. same recoil.

    I think that would be fun 🙂  I realize it's a vehicle gun.  It's  really good at that, but I want to kill with it as well. Not shaw status, but somewhere in between.  Imagine being robertino for a day.

     

     

    I don't hold a lot of these opinions too strongly.  These are just some cool ideas i've thought of just now!!!

     

    • Ntec - Jump shooting nerf already hit live servers i miss it but it doesn't effect much at all. TTK can be raised with a slightly slower fire-rate. Mag size was based on the FAR as a baseline for 6 shot AR's.
    • Star - I disagree keeping it the mag size at 32 you can literally hip-fire while running at an enemy for a full 5 seconds makes no sense nor will it change the star at all.
    • Ursus - Health damage can be decreased to 205 but even if you lower the damage drop-off to 45m i believe it will still 5 hit at 50m without IR3. Fire interval can be increased slightly to achieve the .75 TTK.
    • ATAC - More recoil would be nice
    • Misery - Need more work and input.
    • COBR-A - Most people seem to value this gun as a carbine alternative at this point it just needs to be moved to the marksman category. Reworking this gun to fit as a carbine alternative.
    • LCR - I agree with this change in the reworks.
    • Carbine - I agree with this change in the reworks
    • FFA " Bullshark" - Needs more work and input.
    • Obir - Definitely needs a damage nerf not to sure on the marksman speed benefit.
    • Shredder - Interesting change.
    • JG - I do think the fire-rate needs to be decreased slightly 
    • CSG/TAS - Making it like the lethal version of the NL9 would be amazing
    • NFAS - Pretty close to what was aimed for basically a flamethrower.
    • PMG - Needs more work and input but i like the crouch bonus removal.
    • OCA 'Whisper' - I like it.
    • HVR - Damage is still being consulted.
    • N-ISSR-B - Seems fair. 
    • ISSR-A - XD
    • Scout - This was addressed in a previous post damage is now 580 run modifier was reverted.
    • Euryale - This an incredibly hard one to manage stat wise but i like the slower zoom.
    • Act44 - I agree needs a fire-rate decrease.
    • RSA - Agree.
    • RFP - 15 round mag is doable. 25m range is something we need more input on. Slight base accuracy can be decreased.
    • OCSP - I recommend re trying this weapon as it's nearly twice as accurate as the FBW.
    • ACES SMG/RIFLE - Adding those to the list.
    • Scoped NTEC - Considered.
    • ALIG - I agree with the accuracy part while under marksman benefits not so much the lower TTK.

  7. Posted · Edited by PvE
    spoiler

    4 hours ago, Freewind said:
     

    Before I go through the document changes individually, barring the weapon I'm about to talk about, I want to address the elephant in the room: The Strife.

     


     

    The Strife exists in a very weird place. I personally think it's decent as it is but at the same time I see a lot of wasted potential that could be put into the weapon. I've seen a lot of people who want the weapon to remain virtually untouched, or they want to nerf it's two main selling points, but this to me says that the strife is in dire need of a total rework because nobody seems to be able to figure out what they want to do with it. Thankfully, the Strife is close to being an iconic weapon in shooter games and only needs a little push.

     

    For those unaware, an iconic weapon in video games is a "Super Shotgun" of sorts, usually taking the form of a break action double barrel shotgun, typically arranged with side by side barrels instead of over/under configuration. This "Super Shotgun" features a few notable traits: Short range, small magazine (typically two shots at most), and a truckload of damage. Now look at the Strife. It's got a short range of 15m (which people keep wanting to nerf), a massive 950~ damage (which people keep wanting to nerf), a fairly small magazine compared to other shotguns (5 vs 8), and it's frequently cited as being useless since it's still a two-shot kill, but delivers those two shots much slower than both the CSG and JG. To me, this spells out entirely that the Strife needs to be reworked from the ground up, and we're so close to an iconic video game weapon that it's the only logical solution.

     

    Reworking the Strife into being a double barrel "super shotgun" would fix most of it's problems, along with giving APB an iconic weapon that has been long overdue. Here's some stats I've come up with, using the stats provided here as a base:

     

    Damage: 850

    Accuracy: Unchanged from provided shotgun stats.

    Drop off: ramp begins at 10m, ramp ends at 15m.

    Fire interval: 0.70 (0.02 higher than provided CSG/JG stats.)

    Reload time: 0.5 (Identical to Thumper, no partial reloads.)

    Magazine capacity: 2. (Configured in a way that modifications don't affect it, similar to rocket launchers.)

    Reserve ammo: 20. (-5 from shotgun stats.)

     

    This rework accomplishes a few things that people keep saying they want in that the damage is lowered from 945/950 to 850, so now it's not one shotting anyone while still reliably killing even kevlar 3 users in two shots. Additionally, the range of the shotgun is now much shorter, which means that the shotgun won't be able to fling it's 850 damage very far. In essence, the Strife becomes the polar opposite of the HVR: Same damage, but instead of safely sitting away at 100m you're forced to get into the fray, pick fights, and be mobile. The Strife would now be a feast/famine weapon akin to the Colby .45 AP. You kill in two shots, you have two shots. If you miss, you lose. This allows Strife to retain its status as a niche weapon that people pick up to goof off with while still bringing it much higher on the "viability ladder" than it currently is. If you don't like the idea of having it be only two shots, then perhaps give it four shots instead and give it a model like this instead of a traditional double barrel.

     

    Why do I keep arguing that the Strife should be made a double barrel? Aside from the fact that it's super close to being in that niche perfectly, it fits thematically too. Think about it, the Strife is sold in the Pack of Revelations, which is heavily themed around the apocalypse and other apocalyptic settings. You know what's a really common weapon in apocalyptic settings? The double barrel shotgun. The Metro games have one, Rage has one, the fallout games have them, a lot of indie apocalypse games have them. To quote Ahoy: "If there's one thing that guarantees the weapon's appearance, it's the apocalypse."

     

    So, overall, it makes the most sense to me, especially given that people keep wanting to nerf it even though they'll also say that it's not viable in most cases.

     

    Moving on.

     

    NTEC/STAR changes: I disagree on making the magazines 24 rounds, why not go with 30? It's the gaming standard at this point and allows for more wiggle room when it comes to missed shots. Something I like to keep in mind is that not everyone has pinpoint, or even good, accuracy. The less rounds you give per magazine to people, the higher you raise the skill floor. Too high of a skill floor can prevent game growth, which leads to us having more problems with population than we already have. Relevant graph.

     

    Ursus changes: Disagree on magazine change.

     

    ATAC: Disagree entirely on the change, the ATAC is barely a problem and I barely see anyone use it outside of CQC since it behaves like an SMG.

     

    Misery: Sure, it needs help.

     

    COBR-A: I agree that it needs help, but as others have said I'm not 100% sure on how to help it without having it's niche idea erased. That being said I don't mind making it closer to an AR personally.

     

    LCR: Agree that it could use a fire rate buff, but I worry about buffing it too much since it's largely a limited availability weapons.

     

    Carbine: Sure, less RNG is good.

     

    Shredder: Agree on buffing it's fire rate. I've said a few times that it feels like you could change the modifier to basically give it CJ3 for free and it still wouldn't be great.

     

    CSG: Disagree on 675, maybe 700 instead?

     

    NFAS: Agree.

     

    Strife: See big wall of text above.

     

    PMG: Sure. Though I worry about making it too similar to the OCA, or just making the OCA the go-to and the PMG irrelevant.

     

    H-9 Curse: Sure. It could use a bit of a bump.

     

    Whisper: I don't agree with putting it entirely in line just because it then begins to beg the question of "And the point is?", not to mention that minimum accuracy on SMG's is something to consider for trying to actually use it at 50m. I would be alright with tapping it down to 40m instead of slamming it to 30m.

     

    HVR: I don't personally like nerfing the damage so much, but considering the amount of complaints it's received in general I'd rather wait and see how it works out rather than protesting the change immediately.

     

    ISSR-B: Disagree on changes, it's not a popular weapon and it's already 4 STK, it being nerfed isn't going to fix it's status as a non-problem.

     

    Scout: Disagree entirely. The point of the scout is to be a mobile sniper and it's already fairly balanced as is, not to mention it only does 550 damage and in most cases it only takes two seconds for someone with CJ3 to turn the 2 shot weapon into a 3 shot weapon.

     

    Euryale: I don't disagree that it's a bit powerful, but I feel like I must point out that the SHAW has a lower TTK. Would have to see how it pans out.

     

    ACT44/RSA: I agree with buffing the accuracy on them, they can feel a bit clunky sometimes.

     

    RFP: Agree.

     

    Showstopper: To be honest I barely see them, but sure I guess.

     

    Snubnose: Sure.

     

    OCSP: Sure.

     

    PIG: Yes.

     

    Perc: Sure.

     

    Low-Yield: Sure.

     

    Stun Grenade: Sure.

     

    Volcano: I don't really know about this one. I can agree on an increased equip time but I'm not sure about the fire interval given it's two-rocket system. Perhaps a slightly longer wind up timer or something else?

     

    Stun OPGL: Agree.

     

    Oh my..... what a wonderful read lets break it down!

    • Strife - This probably the best fix I've ever seen for the strife so far it makes a lot of sense on so many levels 850 damage is a wonderful number and only 2 shots i love it!
    • Ntec/STAR - Mag rework was offered on the table due to prolonged firing at an enemy, you shouldn't be firing at a target for over 5 seconds cause your mag is huge and sustaining long range fights for infinity i honestly don't think it will effect much.
    • Ursus - This change is based on the PMG and Misery mag size being that of 20.
    • ATAC - A lot of disliked feedback with the atac removing any changes to it completely.
    • JG - 700 seems fine to change to.
    • PMG - The fire-rate is slowed not increased so it's a double stat nerf.
    • ISSR-B - The nerf is HARD DAMAGE not Health Damage (Hard damage is damage done to vehicles)
    • Scout - The community seems on edge with this change most likely going to remove the change.
    • Volcano - Basically what those stats are explaining is.... the the wind-up time for the Volcano is 1.25s and the fire interval is 1.0s i just wanted to match the wind-up time and the fire interval so its just....1.25 > first rocket > 1.25 > second rocket. This gives volcano a little bit of a dodging chance.

     

    Merged.

     

    1 hour ago, Acornie said:
     

    My first thought about a long list is 

    don't mess with things that aren't broken, so I think a lot of these guns are 'good enough', I'll leave out things I think are fine as is, as well as things that I do not have a decided opinion on: Things listed that I completely agree with proposed: Misery, Cobr-a, ATAC (but it should be .75 ttk or under as to make sure it'd not too big of a "nerf"), Whisper, Shredder, OSCP, AMG (and probably more I didn't remember to list)

     

    ARs are the weapon type I have the most experience with, and I've said that mag size is too high ever since it was a proposed by LO for the N-Tec initially, 24-28 sounds better than what we have currently, might not seem like it would change much but little things can go a long way for overall balance

     

    For the NFAS I feel like a fire interval time increase is a simple enough fix, that and a longer reload time to punish EM3 more

     

    I feel like that's too harsh of a PMG nerf, maybe just the 25m range nerf and not the slower ttk, maybe .18 instead? That would hardly be a difference however


    HVR, I like these stats for damage much better than the current ones, but I dont really know if equip time really needs to but touched, I feel like that would make it feel clunkier for the f2p who rents the no slot 

     

    The Scout having a slight movement penality would be fine, I'd like it alot if this nerf was an excuse to buff the dmg to 575-600 since CA3 users literally start healing before you can get the 2nd shot off

     

    SNR is such a unique secondary, I don't think it should be touched other than either a slight ttk buff (I know it's niche is being a finisher but 1.5 is high for any close range secondary) or an accuracy buff (so you don't have to just pray to the RNG gods you land a shot beyond hugging distance)

     

    I also think we can agree PIG too stronk, maybe 750, 600 stamina dmg feels low for a gun that is that risky to use

     

    Yes on Volcano, if we are touching it I'd like to see the max damage or blast radius tweaked down a small amount, you have 2 friggen rockets after all

    -

    I'll add in one thing I'd like to see changed; SHAW and ALIG movement penalty is too harsh, especially since no Armas exclusive LMG (or sniper actually) has this much of a penalty

     

    • Nfas - Can definitely extent the reload time.
    • HVR - I agree with the equip time reverting to original.
    • Scout - 100% on the health damage increase can't believe that was overlooked damage is now 580 instead of 550.
    • PIG - Considering raising the overall Stamina Damage.
    • SHAW/ALIG - That's an interesting one needs further input.
    • Volcano - Blast Radius is something i think should be addressed to.
    • Thanks 2

  8. Posted · Edited by PvE

    6 hours ago, Shini said:

     

    Personally think the main issue I have the misery at the moment is the recoil getting bigger and more random with ever shot.

    I kind of like the Strife where it is now, I don't see it around often either so I don't think it's really deserving of a nerf just yet, I think the clunkiness of the gun is one of the reasons it's not seen often.

    I don't agree with the scout nerf honestly. I am on the opinion that needs to be more mobile than it's counterparts.

    I don't think the ACT-44/RSA need to be fundamentally changed with their recent buffs. Maybe the golden act needs a tone down in some way (change of mod maybe)

    OCSP, I dont agree that it's one of the worst secondaries. Underused sure, it's very accurate and honestly probably a "model" secondary. If anything the fbw should be less of a primary and more of a secondary like the rest of the secondary guns in the game. It is a secondary afterall, a backup weapon.

    • I agree the Misery needs a change for sure
    • Problem with strife is it's damage in general sure it's a lot but think of team situations you literally get hit once with basically any gun and then a strife will just 1 hit you. Also the over damage with pellets that influence range abuse, essentially you can 2 pump with strife 12m+ quite easily.
    • Scout one was thrown in their to see what people would think but it is still VERY mobile with that slight speed decrease (equivalent to the Euryale and NSSW)
    • Based on used the ACT-44/RSA it's a very well balanced gun but it just misses oblivious shot for no reason which is limited to just the bloom. Changing the modifier just allows hit to hit more consistently while keeping the TTK the exact same.
    • OCSP is a legendary which has a ton of potential but overhauling every secondary to be "less of a primary" is a lot of work but i actually really agree with you on that one, but for now i think i'm going to reduce the fire-rate since it's substantially more accurate than the FBW. 
    6 hours ago, AxeTurboAgresor said:

    I disagree and hate the most of nerf suggestion presented in the doc. Some suggestions are just way too crazy stupid.

    I mean WhyTF  would u even think of nerfing STAR.

    Your suggestion about Ursus shows just how bad you understand the weapon. There is no overkill damage on this gun so it needs more range to compensite that at lease somehow.

    Nerfing STRIFE is just LOLable.

    Also nice HVR nerfs. Like nobody is playing this crap anymore so why not just nerf this trash out of existence? Sniper rifle hits hard. Wow what a surprise. 

    I simply dont understand why would u nerft RPFs magazine capacity if its ballanced. "just needed a range rework and a mag capacity rework to be less forgiving." - no it does NOT.

    4 STK Nfas is absurd just like 3STK pump shotguns presented by some dev big brain.

    I appreciate your input AxeTurboAgresor.

     

    Merged.

     

    6 hours ago, Running Eagle said:

    I don't think a slower fire-rate would address it.  I think damage values ought to be adjusted.  That would make the gun less capable of pushing every other gun (again, aside from snipers on deep-roof dig-ins) out of its play-zone and pigeonholing them into its own.  I believe if you adjust the STK and leave the ROF alone, it is likely that less RNG (depending on whether you use RS3 or HS3, seeing as how the carbine's intent, as all 'semi-auto rifle's' intent, was to be versatile) would be acceptable.  Once upon a time the carbine was the ultra-versatile answer to CQC and mid range, the obeya rifle was the ultra-versatile answer to ARs and snipers who made the mistake of engaging from less than 75m, and the OBIR was the answer to snipers at all ranges (although OBIR still successfully fills the 'anti-kevlar' role it was designed for.)  Since OBIR is able to get off 3 bursts before HVR with CJ3 can get off 2 shots, it was an effective anti-sniper.  The risk/reward was that due to the overdamage it did, it was able to engage an HVR at mostly any range and win IF you landed all 3 bursts, but if you missed the 3rd burst you needed to IMMEDIATELY dive for cover because trying to be cocky and go for a 4th burst would most certainly get you dead as dead could be.  Quickswitching changed all that - and I'm deeply happy QSing was changed...

     

    I'm drifting.  Point being, I think all the semi-autos are not in the place that they were designed for anymore, and could do with adjustment.  I believe leaving the ROF on the carbine but upping the STK could appropriately balance it having a tighter crosshair when paired with either RS3 or HS3, but it ought to probably remain somewhat loose if neither accuracy mod is used.

    Incredibly well thought out i like the idea very much i believe this discussion can be a thread of it's own and don't have the ability to say if it would need another shot to kill while trading for great accuracy. For the time being i'm going to reduce the overall extent of the values i adjusted for the carbine.  

    • Like 1

  9. Posted

    2 minutes ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

    Thoughts before going to bed; brief instead of a proper long post.

     

    I disagree with most of these changes, though I believe that is likely due to how differences in where we would like to see the gunplay go.

     

    Also I like that most of the vets you talked to are all in the same social circle and almost no one outside it. :^)

    I understand completely hence why i made this public and open for discussion. 

    6 minutes ago, Running Eagle said:

    I am a proponent of LO's most recent decision to withhold the actual stat numbers of the currently proposed shotgun changes in an effort to discourage theory-crafting.

     

    The end result of theory-crafting is oftentimes similar to what you'd see in Warframe, where people make builds for their frames/weapons that perform vastly differently in the Simulacrum than they do during actual play... when you can restrict the testing of your theorized build to the closed/sandboxed environment of a very small area with disproportionately thick mob density, the build is going to naturally more accurately hit the mark on the theorized performance, but when taken out into organic mission instances, performs extremely differently and in most cases will be comparatively underwhelming (though personal experience can attest to the reverse effect occasionally being the case.)

     

    In the instance of these two guns, I can unashamedly admit that maybe what you propose for the PMG is more acceptable, but the carbine is as it stands currently able to lay the smack down in unrelenting amounts to pretty much any gun that falls within its range as any gun that has a comparable TTK is going to be much more difficult to control aside from perhaps the huntress, and in all instances of guns that reach beyond 35 meters, abusing car play makes it to where the only guns that are literally beyond its reach are the longest-ranged weapons that are typically used from rooftops and other places where cars can't just let you 'run up and gun up.'  Primarily this tends towards referencing sniper rifles, as most folks using the OBIR, Obeya Rifle, NTEC (and variants) may occasionally go for higher ground, they rarely choose a plot of high ground that is completely inaccessible to carplayers.  Snipers are the only class of weapon that seem to primarily lean on the rooftops and other high-ground environments that require several ladders and a minor "jump puzzle" to get to, being that they are intending to set up for a solid defend-camp.  Nothing against camping with the intended weapon in the right scenario, as that's intended gameplay, but the point remains that a car capable of taking a few bullets allows the carbine to, in essence, 'bully' pretty much any gun out of a spot where it's given an environmental advantage over the carbine's consistency of achievable TTK.  If you can jump out of a car on someone (given you're smart enough to jump out on the side that doesn't expose you to being shot) you're nearly guaranteed to beat out every gun with a slower ttk, most guns with a comparable ttk, and even some guns with a faster ttk depending on whether or not the opposed player is capable of keeping their cool and not falling victim to User Input Error based on the sudden panic that tends to come with being carplayed against when they are running a loadout that does not counter carplay.  Try to keep in mind that carplay lets higher rank players heavily abuse the fact that lower rank players have 0 anti-vehicle options that offer any versatility, being that their sole choice is an ALIG and literally nobody mains ALIG because it's a garbage anti-personnel weapon due to (humorously enough) having full out garbage bullet RNG when firing on people instead of cars. 

    I'm glad we came to an agreement on the PMG. What change would you say for the carbine leaving it as it is now (live servers) or implementing the change i have within the document and reducing the fire-rate like you mentioned before when you said "SLOWER TTK" ?

  12. Posted

    9 hours ago, Speedz said:

    Nice read. I assume the shotgun changes in this doc are with Per Ray Damage scaling? And what do you mean with "set spread" for the CSG, something like we had back in the days with the pellet circle?

     

    You might also have to update Low-Yields on that document, their Radius was already nerfed to 550 cm, a bit lower than the suggestion to keep the 3rd nade.

    Modified the document to further specify what is intended. Also the radius was decreased as well as multiple damage values were nerfed, i believe it was an over complicated nerf. 

    10 hours ago, Shini said:

    It's good to see the document. I find myself agreeing with with a lot of the suggestions there. Some I don't agree but it's whatever.

    The document is useful for the devs for sure with regards to the bigger picture as the main problem is the forums are quite incoherant a lot of the time with unconstructive feedback.

    Offer some feedback it's all open for discussion.

     

    Merged.

     

    9 hours ago, swft said:

    Nice to see a document with actual values instead of just words, I agree with most of it even though there's a few more guns that need to be adjusted too, like the Obir.

    Spill the details!

  13. Posted

    3 hours ago, Running Eagle said:

    This document's contents intends to make APB's rock-paper-scissors gameplay based on weapon class as a baseline (AR as scissors, shotgun as rock, marksman as paper) instead of fleshing out the gameplay type and keeping the guns unique within their class (cobra barber scissors, atac poultry shears, misery embroidery scissors....)  And actually to kind of keep with my euphemism here, if ARs are scissors, the NTEC is and has always been for a long time that all-purpose pair of scissors your mother keeps in the junk drawer in the kitchen that she uses to open packages, cut your hair, and trim the dingleberries off the dog's patootie when they start to clump up -- and your adjustments here seek to take trauma shears made out of high grade surgical steel, as well as a pair of hedge trimmers used to do landscaping, and make both of them look and function almost identically to the junk-drawer, all-purpose, dingleberry-cutting scissors with the indestructible plastic thumb holes your mom refuses to replace because somehow they never actually need to be sharpened thanks to some inexplicable form of dollar-store sorcery.

     

    I get what your reasons are for the changes described here.

     

    I'm 100% positive that it will remove the variety and uniqueness of the guns and still make them useless compared to the contact rentable guns for the opposite reason:  they're too similar to each other and therefore there would be no real reason beyond aesthetics to spend G1C/JT on acquiring them.  If they are all equally as effective as each other within a negligible margin of applicable difference, it would make every gun a remesh/reskin of each other and essentially bring every class of gun back down to only having 2 types of guns per class.

     

    Yes I understand there are 'technical differences' between the guns as you are describing them by stats, but when put to play-testing the applicable differences would be, as I said, negligible.  Which, in the end, would be time and effort spent by the dev team to make the guns represent your proposal, only to leave them literally as purposeless as they currently are, except they wouldn't suffer from not being competitive like they currently do, they'd just....be fancy skins and sounds on the same old same old same old guns we've had since launch.

     

    Edit: I 100% agree with the idea that RNG based guns need to be less RNG based, but in exchange for that, they need to have SLOWER TTK.  I am extremely suspect of the idea of making both the PMG and Carbine "more accurate" when every PMG and carbine I face off against somehow manages to have 80+% accuracy from LITERALLY any range within its current "effective range" value.  Consistently PMG users seem to be able to not only track perfectly but additionally completely remove the 'rng' nature of the gun because 5 shots are fired and 5 shots land about 90% of the time when fighting a PMG in asylum, and 6 shots are fired and 6 shots land from the carbine on ANY map at ANY range it seems.  Outside 35m it doesnt kill in 6 shots but I'll be damned if they don't still land all 6 shots.  And it's very clear, as you can listen and count the gunshot sounds up to your death.  Well, MY death.

     

    So the insistence that two guns that people use that seem to only miss 1-3 bullets per magazine, need to be made MORE accurate and less RNG based, is incredibly suspicious to me.  I wonder if you would recommend the same for the .45 and additionally give it another bullet in the mag just in case....

    PMG within the document is nerfed, range and firerate wise. The carbine is an amazing weapon with an average TTK but maining it is pain due to the poor accuracy of the gun hence why it referred to as an "RNG Cannon" which isn't a term that should be used to describe a gun. Based on what is this is trying to accomplish is a sense of balance sure sub-classes will have around the same TTK but what more can be done with balance even if TTK is similar different guns have different mechanics. 

  15. Posted · Edited by PvE

    29 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

    Just offhand based on the little I read of that doc before closing it in disgust. COBR-A, ISSR-a, and Strife.

    • COBR-A's design is supposed to essentially be an automatic variant of the Carbine. Slower, but more accurate. True, it's currently a little on the undertuned side, but your suggestions destroy what it is by trying to make it an ADS assault rifle like the rest.
    • ISSR-a is supposed to be a marksman / assault rifle hybrid. The current bloom recovery delay might be a bit too long, but overall it's a very powerful gun that also has anti-vehicle utility.
    • Strife is literally supposed to borderline one-shot your target, that's the entire reason it has the atrociously slow fire rate. We already have shotguns that barely tickle in the form of CSG (and JG to a lesser extent), we don't need to homogenize the Strife to join that dull and boring group. It's already been given an unjustified nerf, we don't need it being destroyed further. It's a support weapon like the HVR, but it's actually balanced thanks to not having render distance range like the HVR's broken patootie.

    Won't see me saying otherwise, I'm a full believer in the philosophy that you should always endeavor to buff weaker things instead of nerfing stronger ones. There are of course times when nerfs are necessary (to preserve a chosen baseline/average TTK across the game, for example), but far more often it's totally possible to buff things without causing issues.

    • COBR-A's change was to bring it into the light as an assault rifle to further variation not make it another marksman rifle.
    • ISSR-A needs work don't know many that own it for a good reason.
    • Strife is an incredibly powerful gun that is just underused due to the fact that it is behind a pack instead of individually sold. I see no justification for having a shotgun do 931 damage while having more range than needed 775 is a perfect balance if you take into account the other shotgun damage values.
    12 minutes ago, ExoticZ said:

    Alot of interesting things in here for sure.

    Some things I agree on while some things I disagree on.

    Either way, it's a good and clean document which describes each suggestion.

     

    Something that could be interesting imo, is if you would go more in depth on each suggestion either on stream or a YouTube video.

    All about coming to a conclusion, everyone is going to have different views this is directed towards just having equal balance within apb. Would appreciate your input on some weapons that you think would need changes, would love to have a fellow streamer and veteran offer some advice. 

  17. Posted

    I'm releasing this post a bit early due to the weapon balancing that seems to be going on in APB. This post isn't a suggestion but a collaboration among veterans to reach an equilibrium with weapon balancing. This document is no where near complete and still needs a lot of work but i feel it can serve as a justification what can be changed to benefit all of the community.

     

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E6xMggGRngFFBTetuZQ7-e9cmWTRgSiX54BxO4gVGr8/edit?usp=sharing

    • Like 12
    • Thanks 2
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