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tennogrineer

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Posts posted by tennogrineer


  1. wuQ9lzy.png

    things we need to consider:
    low customization. not many (if any) have these customization's maxed:
    • CHARACTER
    • THEME
    • VEHICLE
    • SYMBOL
    no modifications on:
    • VEHICLES
    • CHARACTERS
    no higher-tier explosives (outside EOL and Volcano)
    • CONCUSSIONS
    • OSMAWS
    • OPGL
    low statistics of player data:
    • kills
    • achievements
    • roles
    • rank

    + still suffers from fps drops in many common areas

    even so, lot of us remember a time where all of this WAS working with 50/50 so it's still a good sign. 🙂
    • Thanks 1

  2. improved rifling changes (on marksman weapons). for the most part, semi auto weapons stay the same.

    • obir/ffa and oscar - OK way since those are burst weapons
    • cr762  - fine, pretty much the same firerate you would do for optimal range ttk
    • joker carbine and vbr temptress/huntress - okay
    however, since they still are hit...it makes the issr (dogear  especially) uncontested. that weapon will certainly be way too strong (more than it already is)
     
    • Like 1

  3. 50 minutes ago, LO_Beastie said:

    Improved Rifling

    This mod's always been a bit of a funny one. In a lot of cases, the downside has no effect, so it's purely a great mod to put on most guns. While previously this had very limited effect on Shotguns, now it will be very, very good on them. Too good in fact, essentially making them mid-range weapons (we all saw what the test A/B shotguns were like). To counter this, I've switched the downside of the mod from increasing the Shot Modifier Cap to something a bit more drastic. Fire rate. When I first had a look, the plan was to implement this as a shotgun-specific downside, but having more of a think, it could make sense in a more general fashion. The reduced fire rate (9/15/21%) can actually be a help to a lot of weapons with more control of recoil and accuracy degredation at the cost of minimum time to kill. It's certainly worth a test overall before we make a decision on whether to limit the effect to shotguns only. It'd be worth testing across the board, as it'll affect how a lot of weapons lose accuracy. This also affects Burst Fire Interval, so it does affect the burst fire rifles and pistols as well (*cough* Fang *cough*), and it may affect some weapons a bit worse than others (if we want to go this route, it's likely the LCR will need a buff, since 2/3 of the LCRs have rifling built in, and it's already a very slow killing weapon). The fire rate decrease is also quite heavy, so we may want to tone it down (or improve the rifling range effect). We'll see what the feedback is like.

     


    while i like this downside for most weapons that certainly need the downside (ntec being one), it does also affect the two guns that have a strong reason to use it: OBIR (already has a high ttk), Obeya CR762 (though the CR762 is more flexible in red-mod choice). to really test this, we need mods in OTW. i am open for this change though, on paper its a great downside for almost everything that previously benefited way too much.

  4. 42 minutes ago, Toasted said:
    20 hours ago, Kiida said:
    its probably not a good idea  to have the issr go meta, as the p2w accusations will come back.
    least on na, it pretty much already is meta. one of the best go-to weapons golds use because
    • less embarrassing than using the hvr ("at least its not an hvr")
    • less embarrassing than using the ntec ("at least its not an ntec")
    • fast rof, fast recovery, tight accuracy, low ttk (0.9s)
    • more versatile than the obir (most people using the obir suck at reverse switching and know it has a longer ttk pf 1.2s)
    • better than the obeya cr762 (cr762's bloom kills its optimal min-ttk of 0.84s at range)
    • better than the star lcr (faster rof and ttk)
    • better sniper than the dmr-sd (issr has faster rof, reload, and shorter ttk than 1.6s)
    • better av than the dmr-av (issr has faster rof, reload, and ammo to really take cars out more efficiently)
    • as mobile as the scout (but doesnt have that awkward delay between shots)
    • reliable at cqc
    • easy to say otherwise because mostly just golds have it (and when's the last time most of them actually wanted to see their crutch go away)
    • easy to say otherwise because "it's on the joker store" 

    i honestly would not be surprised.

  5. 3 hours ago, Kewlin said:

    You can't lower a 651 damage shotgun's damage by 100 and have it work, lol. When you make a shotgun 2-shot it needs to 2-shot by a large margine or it quickly becomes an extremely awkward gun and would honestly be better off being 3-shot, and clearly LO doesn't want to not apply these curves to the CSG, so Tobii and I's solution is the clear answer.
    the idea is either keeping the consistency, but lowering the damage so it isn't as effective at range (there is still damage drop-off afaik).
    or not apply the consistency at all, so isn't as effective at range.

    both would accomplish the same thing.

  6. @Tobii@Kewlin - as mentioned in the baylan a thread and seen during frosi's stream this morning, it seems the best option to address that is by either not having the pellet update affect the csg (live line being ideal, lowering consistency like suggested) or just lowering the csg damage by 100 (or some other sweet spot, making the curve closer to current live while retaining the pellet benefit). this way it can retain its place of being more of a ranged shotgun (more likely to have to 3 shot) but not dominate very close quarters (where other weapons should shine, like the jg specifically).

  7. 19 minutes ago, Lign said:

    Shotguns are pretty strong when you know how to use it, but the problem was in inconsistent hitreg

    yeah mostly the server. many remember the days when servers were so smooth that using a shotgun was just the best thing in the world.
    now these changes kind of just make them more consistent even if the servers are running terribly (wont solve the hitreg issue completely, but at least something might count more often)

  8. 2 minutes ago, LO_Beastie said:

    @Tobii I'll ask and see if it's ok to post exact changes now that you've had a chance to play around with the balance changes. Generally we don't reveal anything but generic information prior to players getting access as it colours any feedback we receive (preconceptions can alter perception).

    well right now all we have is the notes and those very uninformative weapon stat bars in game. most of us would like to see those bars replaced by actual numerical values. way better than telling so-and-so stand somewhere and test time-to-kill, shots-to-kill, then looking at video to determine rate-of-fire, pulling out a calculator to see hard damage, etc. 🙂

  9. 2 minutes ago, LO_Beastie said:
    Indeed Tobii, all of the guns have different stats in Prototype A and Prototype B. I don't expect either weapon set will go through exactly as is for any of the weapons, we're essentially bracketing (https://www.militaryfactory.com/dictionary/military-terms-defined.asp?term_id=786) until we find the right spot.
    im hoping this means we'll see the right spot in otw (and not be surprised in live) 🙂
     

  10. 1 minute ago, Excalibur! said:
    That is not allways viable for quickswitching, you wont win 100% of the time. There are faster killing weapons and more efficient for cqc.
    Show me you killing multiple targets quickswitching compared to a pointman gun.
    You can achieve that with pointman like, pmg? Ogre? Not with nhvr.
    i dont think you are getting the issue here.
    yes, i agree that quickswitching isnt 100% viable and there are more optimal solutions based on skill level. however, having that option on the hvr and having the ability to effectively use it in a combat range it shouldnt, limits the weapon diversity in the game. i have a feeling your experiences are based on fight club..when you have to think about mission districts.

  11. 1 minute ago, Excalibur! said:
    Is not matter to switching to anything more viable, is not destroying something because of a few players. I cant even remember the last time ive been killed by quickswitching.... the last time i seen people trying to quickswitch were doing pretty bad.
     
    what benefit does keeping a close-quarter quickswitch on a weapon designed for range provide? the changes pretty much address that "small" issue (no matter how bad players who use it are) but still keeps the long range in tact. its a really good change, this way those players clearly understand that if you are playing in close quarter with a long range weapon, switch your weapon or sumSmash.

    just because you dont die to it, doesnt mean that the gimmick is okay.
     
    • Like 1

  12. 6 minutes ago, Kiida said:
    10 minutes ago, Excalibur! said:

    Lucky those who got scout and will quickswitch with it to role up the sniper role 😉
    There are other snipers... ISSR would probably take over as meta.
    i wanted to see what all the fuss was about with the issr-b dogear (assuming issr-a is the same for the most part?).. issr-b definitely needs to be toned down in damage (especially hard damage) with all these other changes. probably too much for this balance pass, but has to be considered quickly as the meta will surely be dominated by this easy mode weapon.

    have to look at:
    • removing the reverse quick-switch with the obir/ffa
    • adjusting the oca - make it take an extra shot to kill or put the ttk back to where it was (revert firerate change). keeps it as the smg benchmark but keeps the rest of the smgs strong as well.
    • adjust the ttk of the yukon - this gun is pretty much the nfa9 with way better accuracy. it shouldnt have a 0.45s ttk (faster than any secondary and primary)
    • ntec - [redacted because it triggers so many people], but take a look at the star and far (both really well done)
    • low-yields - slightly lower health damage, significantly lower hard damage

  13. said stuff about overall shotguns in the other thread (copying most over):


    overall shotguns are too forgiving (especially with the csg and autoshotguns). the new pellet system shouldnt be applied to everything

    • auto shotguns (nfas, orge, etc.)  - doesnt need to be changed (no new pellet system - it's an auto shotgun). orge is stupidly strong at range now.
    • strife - needs to be way less forgiving (less pellets hit should do less damage, right now you can barely hit someone at it does a lot more than you think it would). however, the fire rate makes using the gun pointless now with the other shotgun changes.
    • csg - doesnt need to be changed at all (there was nothing wrong with the csg). if the change is kept, the damage needs to be lowered, like 100 less and then it would make sense that csg has to 3 shot close maintaining excellency at a further range
    • jg - same as csg*. it was in a good spot but benefits with the new system to keep it a true solid choice over the csg at very close ranges. will guarantee more 2 shots close but fails hard at range...which makes the csg the obvious winner.
    • shredder - okay. feels good
    • showstopper (secondary) - 3 shot kill, maybe like a 0.8- 1s ttk? feels real good for the most part, on the fence to make it a 4 shot instead.

    majority of shotgun issues are because of the server anyway.
     
    most of this seems consistent to what @Frosi was testing/seeing on stream (alongside other things with @Tobii and @LUST) worth checking out his VOD too. good on them
    he posted about it as well:
    7 minutes ago, Frosi said:

    CSG: Too good, the consistency of two shotting feels good but 10-15 meter 2 shots are a bit too strong.
    JG: Noticeably worse than the CSG, while you have an easier time two shotting compared to the Live JG it really doesn't stand a chance against a CSG right now.
    Ogre: Still broken, this shotgun shouldn't be included in the shotgun changes as it has been made even better even tho it was already fairly broken to begin with.
    Strife: I can't really say much about the Strife, the CSG, JG and Ogre all seemed better although some people say that its poking damage is incredibly good thanks to the shotgun changes.



     

  14. 1 hour ago, Captain Teemo said:

    hvr being linked to accuracy is fine...but I think they forgot that otw doesn't have mods. with hs3, this change seems pointless. it should have that change and a reverse damage drop off like the dmr (pretty much scout damage until 75m).

    no, it looks nice now from what i see (watching @Frosi test with @Tobii and @LUST)

    4 fbw + hvr = kill
    3 fbw + hvr = 90 ish
    2 fbw + hvr = 85 ish
    1 fbw + hvr = 80 ish

    moving while hvr, 340ish damage = 3 shot kill close.

    the range 850 damage is the same..but if anything, keep all the above but make the damage 750 max and it would be pretty perfect and still viable.
    • Thanks 2

  15. shotguns are too forgiving. the new pellet system shouldnt be applied to everything

    • auto shotguns (nfas, orge, etc.)  - doesnt need to be changed (no new pellet system - it's an auto shotgun)
    • strife - needs to be way less forgiving (less pellets hit should do less damage, right now you can barely hit someone at it does a lot more than you think it would)
    • csg - doesnt need to be changed at all (there was nothing wrong with the csg)
    • jg - same as csg*. it was in a good spot but can benefit SLIGHTLY with the new system to keep it a true solid choice over the csg
    • shredder - okay.

    majority of shotgun issues are because of the server anyway.

    edit:
    jg -  feels good if you used it before, will guarantee more 2 shots close but fails hard at range...which makes the csg the obvious winner. sort of mixed on it, maybe just csg damage can be like 100 less and then it would make sense that csg has to 3 shot close while excelling at a further range.
     
    • Like 3

  16. 3 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:
    3 minutes ago, tennogrineer said:

    i know that, last i played otw (4-6 hours ago?) all weapons felt the same outside of shotgun damage.

    obviously this was misleading:
    Sv6Ld6g.png

    because why in the heck would they change the STAR, FAR, or CR762... to trigger @LUST? lol ...
    The message, as Matt has said, is outdated.
    ah, figured. knew that the first two were from the other districts, didnt know the third was off (since it sounded close to what was proposed). thanks bud. 🙂

     

  17. 1 minute ago, AsgerLund said:
    11 minutes ago, tennogrineer said:
    well yeah, when you start throwing in all the variables, of course things tend to shine better than others. im not saying the oca is perfect where it is, it's just the others arent as bad as people make it out to be when the gameplay around them is essentially the game, the true test comes when they are outside their optimal comfort zones..which ends up just relating to missions and map design.

    no matter where it goes, someone will excel with it. h9 is probably the hardest smg in that regard.
    Whoa - you sound like you have heaps of experience from a better forum than this...
    yeah man, i travelled a many jungle gyms and slid down many sliderinos.
     
    1 minute ago, BXNNXD said:
    no the other guns arent bad, its just that the oca now performs the same as low ttk SMGs without any of the drawback mechanics

    why would you not throw in all the variables when discussing weapon balance?
    i guess i totally didnt say anything of the sort. TTours
     
    Quote
    the choice now really comes down to recoil, bloom, and range preference since they all hover around the same ttk

     

  18. 3 minutes ago, Sergsininia said:
    on OTW in Baylan, yes. Anywhere else? No.
    Make sure to try both baylan's.

    I'll just get back online when "I'm off work" population gets off work.
    1 minute ago, CookiePuss said:
    yeah, patches are live
    shotguns and showstopper are borked, but trying to test the others

    i know that, last i played otw (4-6 hours ago?) all weapons felt the same outside of shotgun damage.

    obviously this was misleading:
    Sv6Ld6g.png

    because why in the heck would they change the STAR, FAR, or CR762... to trigger @LUST? lol ...

  19. 8 minutes ago, TheHidden-Tember said:
    They actually DON't hover all around the same ttk.

    The difference between 0.64s and 0.7s is actually insane because you have to take into account missed shots.
    Overall OCA has a much higher chance than any other SMG of downing a target under sustained fire because it just spits out bullets faster.

    The difference doesn't look like much at first glance but if the engagement lasts for more than two seconds the OCA will win against any other SMG because its DPS is a straight upgrade.

    Also as an extensive user of cap40, I can say that it's recoil/bloom pattern is a straight downgrade to current OCA as well. The bloom is just bigger.

    As for my argument for buffing, 0.7s is the ttk of most assault rifles. OCA is the only SMG that actually has a high chance of not getting killed by an assault rifle in cqc
    7 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:
    the issue is that the oca is incredibly easy to use, whereas all other high rof guns with a competitive ttk have significant drawbacks to balance the low ttk

    the pmg remains a valid alternative because it matches the oca's ease of use and is very easy to min ttk with due to its mechanics
    well yeah, when you start throwing in all the variables, of course things tend to shine better than others. im not saying the oca is perfect where it is, it's just the others arent as bad as people make it out to be when the gameplay around them is essentially the game, the true test comes when they are outside their optimal comfort zones..which ends up just relating to missions and map design.

    no matter where it goes, someone will excel with it. h9 is probably the hardest smg in that regard.

  20. last two changes to the OCA:
    Patch 1.19.3 (812) - 14 Oct 2015

    Quote
    OCA
    The OCA has always been our benchmark SMG, but has slowly fallen very slightly behind others as we've added more weapons to the category. As such it's in need of a very small improvement to bring it back up to par, and we've done so by improving the accuracy radius by 1cm at 10m to 36cm from 37cm.


    Patch 1.19.4 (886) - 17 May 2016
    Quote
    OCA - Tweaks to fire rate and accuracy.
    this made the ttk from the previous 0.7s (0.65 CJ3) to 0.64s (0.6s CJ3)

    this kept it back in line against the other smgs' (stock) ttk.
    • ACES: 0.63s ttk
    • ACES Rifle: 0.71s
    • PMG: 0.7s (0.65 CJ3)
    • h9 curse: 0.77s (0.71s CJ3) - recoil being changed soon
    • cap 40:  0.7s (0.65 CJ3) - pretty much old oca
    the choice now really comes down to recoil, bloom, and range preference since they all hover around the same ttk and have its own pros and cons. oca is still doing its job as the smg benchmark, its not like the others are abandoned and useless (certainly see plenty of pmgs on NA), its just way less "easily" accessible  in comparison.

  21. 8 hours ago, Keshi said:
    pretty sure this is a typo or a lack of knowledge that weapon damage is actually by 100s, instead of 10s. but they will fix it today apparently.
    in any case, the new shotgun secondary should be at least 6 shot kill if fixed (166.6 damage per shot). otherwise it could replace shotguns as a primary.
    or just make it 100% anti-vehicle, 6 shots steel-plated espacio/fresno/vegas/pioneer.
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