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#161
Iodyne

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Permanently account banned for this? (The pink one)
RTW veteran, over $6,000 over spent. Most of which was put towards running events/contests for the community.

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THIS is not a justifiable reason to be FAIRFIGHT banned. The system is flawed.

@kitty, the thread quote is long since buried, but the quote by Tiggs was, "If you're on FF, it means you cheated." Which is a lie. I never cheated.
She also said, quote, "No one was banned for giving out a shirt." But she would not tell me what i was "really" banned for, let alone even speak to me directly.

Edited by Iodyne, 23 March 2017 - 05:02 AM.


#162
Tigrix

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Permanently account banned for this? (The pink one)
RTW veteran, over $6,000 over spent. Most of which was put towards running events/contests for the community.


THIS is not a justifiable reason to be FAIRFIGHT banned. The system is flawed.

"If youre on FF, you cheated" is a lie. I nevery cheated.

According to you, it's a lie and the system is flawed.
But so far, reading Tiggs and even reading your own words;

This is summary:
Player idolizes a big cheater and promotes him, i.e. making ingame tshirt that he not only sells on mp, but also

for sake of making it REALLY authentic, personally gifts to the cheater himself on a live-stream.

Now the same player want everyone to believe that despite idolizing a cheater and supporting his cause publically, then he himself

would never use a closet cheat/low settings cheat gifted to him from this same cheater he supports?

Tiggs says you cheated... you say you didn't.

I say the factual evidence which you yourself provided aswell - leads towards Tiggs being right.
We're supposed to doubt it all, because you claim you sucked in missions? 
There's tons of low-setting cheaters who suck, but still none the less quite obviously can track me through the wall or hit that snap button where next few bullets lands miraculously.


Edited by Tigrix, 23 March 2017 - 05:08 AM.

https://www.youtube....h?v=STpXy7gXzC4

Being online doesn't mean you're suddenly not responsible for who you are. Embarrassing, threatening, harassing, attacking and insulting - based on gender, race, nationality or simple difference of opinion? ...This shows who you are as a person, sitting behind the monitor. You think nobody will care? Think again.

The age of Cancer is over. The dawn of Justice has come.


#163
Iodyne

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@Tigrix you must have never played against me then.

#164
Kitty Yekaterina

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Permanently account banned for this? (The pink one)
RTW veteran, over $6,000 over spent. Most of which was put towards running events/contests for the community.

THIS is not a justifiable reason to be FAIRFIGHT banned. The system is flawed.

@kitty, the thread quote is long since buried, but the quote by Tiggs was, "If you're on FF, it means you cheated." Which is a lie. I never cheated.
She also said, quote, "No one was banned for giving out a shirt." But she would not tell me what i was "really" banned for, let alone even speak to me directly.

 

I know, thats why i said you had love from community, you had reputation, everybody liked you. oh my! you needed to go on goat hacking stream and offer him a shirt like you are best buddies with him?  :chairwack:

 

You maybe dont realize but with that action, its not about shirt, its about principles.  Instead that RTW veteran to whom many had looked up at, make a hard stance against hacking cancer, especially goat cancer, you acted like you two are best buddies. You donate him a shirt in front of 1000+ viewers... what you dont get sweety?  :Hmm:  You fked up big  time.. 

 

Fairfight is merely text written in the chat "xy person just got banned" ..thats all it is.  The ban is important, not the way of how ban was made. What you seen was a text saying you got banned by fairfight. 

 

Only thing important is , does someone fulfill requirements to get banned, hence violated terms of service or not.

All rest is just irrelevant details, because like i said, when you get banned, you dont really need to care was it done silently by GM, was it done by program FF, was it done manually by GM... 


Being online doesn't mean you're suddenly not responsible for who you are. Embarrassing, threatening, harassing, attacking and insulting - based on gender, race, nationality or simple difference of opinion? ...This shows who you are as a person, sitting behind the monitor. You think nobody will care? Think again.

The age of Cancer is over. The dawn of Justice has come.

 


#165
Tigrix

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@Tigrix you must have never played against me then.


I say the factual evidence which you yourself provided aswell - leads towards Tiggs being right.
 

We're supposed to doubt it all, because you claim you sucked in missions?
There's tons of low-setting cheaters who suck, but still none the less quite obviously can track me through the wall or hit that snap button where next few bullets lands miraculously. 

It's a mistake when people assume that a cheater has to be good at playing the game.
It's for obvious reasons usually the really not so good players who finds themselves a low-settings cheat to reach average skill level.


https://www.youtube....h?v=STpXy7gXzC4

Being online doesn't mean you're suddenly not responsible for who you are. Embarrassing, threatening, harassing, attacking and insulting - based on gender, race, nationality or simple difference of opinion? ...This shows who you are as a person, sitting behind the monitor. You think nobody will care? Think again.

The age of Cancer is over. The dawn of Justice has come.


#166
Iodyne

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...Tiggs herself when she streamed and made give-aways, that if someone sent a ticket with screenshot of you wearing for instance swastika, or abusing people in public chat, you earned a ban.
Since its manually, its irrelevant how ban is done as long as its ban itself. So some GM's might use fairfight, just writing ur name and ban, [/font][/color]

Fairfight is abused. GM's manually ban players, NOT based on statistics. NOT flagged by fairfight.

Do you not see that THIS is why the system is corrupt? FF is OFTEN a GM just deciding to use the cover of Fairfight to avoid justifying their bans.

Why have we been misguided and told that Fairfight is an ANTICHEAT system?...that it is only going off of statistics and information....when it is actually, in some cases, purely and solely human observation? Completely devoid of statistics or FairFight itself.

Tiggs has stated, also, that "If you're on FairFight, you cheated."

Do you see the point I'm trying to make? Because the pointment of my argument is not to contest a ban that is years old. It is to prove the illigitimacy of the FairFight anti-cheat system itself, as well as the validity of anything Tiggs states as "fact".

Edited by Iodyne, 23 March 2017 - 05:28 AM.


#167
Queen of Love

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Fairfight is abused. GM's manually ban players, NOT based on statistics. NOT flagged by fairfight.

Do you not see that THIS is why the system is corrupt? FF is OFTEN a GM just deciding to use the cover of Fairfight to avoid justifying their bans.

Why have we been misguided and told that Fairfight is an ANTICHEAT system?...that it is only going off of statistics and information....when it is actually, in some cases, purely and solely human observation?

Tiggs has stated, also, that "If you're on FairFight, you cheated."

Do you see the point I'm trying to make?

maybe i get the point.

 

should be:

  • you cheated--->then--> FF

and not

  • FF--> means -->you cheated

 

i still hope in a revision of some FF, at least for the most strange case of "suddenly" cheater.



#168
FreeHenryman90

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Well, then it should cost like 1$ in order to ensure that it's authentic card, and that 1$ will be paid back afterwards.



#169
Iodyne

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what is important is that they TELL us that fairfight is based on STATISTICS and LOGARITHMS and gameplay....NOT that it is often just a GM banning players for behavior violations and covering it up.

Ever hear of "separation of church and state "? It's a similar concept.

Edited by Iodyne, 23 March 2017 - 06:07 AM.


#170
Kitty Yekaterina

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what is important is that they TELL us that fairfight is based on STATISTICS and LOGARITHMS and gameplay....NOT that it is often just a GM banning players for behavior violations and covering it up.

Ever hear of "separation of church and state "? It's a similar concept.

Like i said nobody even denied fact that bans are bans. I dont know why you think someone tried to cover it up when nobody did lol. 

 

When you get banned, you see your main acc suspended...do you really care what way you get banned? Silent GM, FF, or manual?  I doubt. 

 

You only care for reason why you got banned, and reason was told to you and its obvious as night and day difference.  

 

You publicly supported well known hacker who abuses  this community, you acted and probably was his friend... What else needs to be said? We all know Tiggs pulled real life authority police to track goat down, she said it herself one time.  Its not a joke, its real life police involvement. 

What you did ? You went and were friends with that person... ban reason is clear. 

 

We know violations of ToS, and we know that getting you banned doesnt necessarily mean you were hacker. Like you said, social behavior, harassment, supporting hackers who are destroying game, glorifying nazism, nudity, profain language, anything that makes another player discomfort are all reasons among rest, to get your account permanently disabled. 

 

It maybe was written in public chat that your main got suspended by FF but if it was manual ban, what and how does it make a difference? 

 

You made a crime, you admitted you used alt accounts playing with goat, and what? You thought IP is not traceable? You thought they wont track your main account?  Sorry but obviously they did. 


Being online doesn't mean you're suddenly not responsible for who you are. Embarrassing, threatening, harassing, attacking and insulting - based on gender, race, nationality or simple difference of opinion? ...This shows who you are as a person, sitting behind the monitor. You think nobody will care? Think again.

The age of Cancer is over. The dawn of Justice has come.

 


#171
InnerPieces

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Will a cheater who already hacked, really  poop his pants so much after getting banned, that he ll go and delete all the hacks and programs all of a sudden?

Doubt if he already put so much effort to download hacks or pay premium ones at first place .  :Hmm:

 

He will lower the settings for harder tracking for FF, he ll maybe even shut down hacks for next 6-7 months, and when he ll feel the storm has passed by, he ll continue closetting and harassing the apb community.  That is a fact. 

 

 

I'm still not taking a stance regarding this issue as I still do not understand the technology, nor do I have any special insight into the hearts or minds of the people in question. Two things I will say, however, in the interest of fairness:

 

First, with all due respect, you did not present a fact. You offered an assumption.

 

There have been plenty of criminals who were arrested, prosecuted, served their time, released and lived the rest of their days as law abiding citizens. If that were not the case, there would be no point in ever releasing anyone from jail. In fact, we may as well just shoot them where they stand. I find it just as likely an actual cheater could see the error of their ways and reform themselves.

 

No one ever thought I would quit smoking cigarettes... but I did (2 years and 3 days, now).

 

I understand your passion, but I disagree with your assumption.

 

 

Secondly, to Iodyne's point, I believe we are debating semantics. Whether or not a GM can or should ban someone for distributing inappropriate material in-game is vastly different than accusing them of cheating. Tiggs and the rest of the G1 team have the right to ban anyone. If Iodyne was banned for distributing a t-shirt, that is one thing. If Iodyne is being falsely accused of cheating, that is something entirely different.

 

I'm not trying to discuss the decision itself, mind you. Again, I do not know the hearts and minds of the people involved. I just wanted to point out there is a vast difference between being banned for inappropriate material and being banned for cheating. IF Iodyne was banned for the shirt, then It should be called a moderator or TOS ban. IF she was banned for actual cheating... then it is a Fairfight ban.

 

Remember, the only behavior an anti-cheat program moderates is cheating... not other TOS violations.


Edited by InnerPieces, 23 March 2017 - 06:47 AM.


#172
Iodyne

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When you get banned, you see your main acc suspended...do you really care what way you get banned?

You made a crime, you admitted you used alt accounts playing with goat, and what? You thought IP is not traceable? You thought they wont track your main account? Sorry but obviously they did.

Yes I care what way I got banned and why. And no, I was never given a reason other than the auto-lock support ticket response.

I never made an alt account to play with goat. I never played with goat. Where did I EVER say that? I don't get why are you making this up out of thin air.

Edited by Iodyne, 23 March 2017 - 06:54 AM.


#173
Iodyne

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This is EXACTLY the point I'm trying to make here....

I'm still not taking a stance regarding this issue as I still do not understand the technology, nor do I have any special insight into the hearts or minds of the people in question. Two things I will say, however, in the interest of fairness:

First, with all due respect, you did not present a fact. You offered an assumption.

There have been plenty of criminals who were arrested, prosecuted, served their time, released and lived the rest of their days as law abiding citizens. If that were not the case, there would be no point in ever releasing anyone from jail. In fact, we may as well just shoot them where they stand. I find it just as likely an actual cheater could see the error of their ways and reform themselves.

No one ever thought I would quit smoking cigarettes... but I did (2 years and 3 days, now).

I understand your passion, but I disagree with your assumption.


Secondly, to Iodyne's point, I believe we are debating semantics. Whether or not a GM can or should ban someone for distributing inappropriate material in-game is vastly different than accusing them of cheating. Tiggs and the rest of the G1 team have the right to ban anyone. If Iodyne was banned for distributing a t-shirt, that is one thing. If Iodyne is being falsely accused of cheating, that is something entirely different.

I'm not trying to discuss the decision itself, mind you. Again, I do not know the hearts and minds of the people involved. I just wanted to point out there is a vast difference between being banned for inappropriate material and being banned for cheating. IF Iodyne was banned for the shirt, then It should be called a moderator or TOS ban. IF she was banned for actual cheating... then it is a Fairfight ban.

Remember, the only behavior an anti-cheat program moderates is cheating... not other TOS violations.



#174
Kitty Yekaterina

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I never made an alt account to play with goat. I never played with goat. Where did I EVER say that? I don't get why are you making this up out of thin air.

 

 

I didnt make anything up, you said it yourself just 1 page ago in this very topic : 

 

 

Support also confirmed (in a support ticket from THIS account that isn't brick-walled) that FF bans are NOT issued based on who you are playing with...it is solely based on your own account; not others.

 

 

So 1) you practically admits that you have played with goat don't u agree? (bans NOT based on who you are playing with?)  strange choice of words then.

 2) you say FF bans should only be based on the own account that get banned, not on "others"?? Lol i'd say that too if my alt cheater acct got rekt and then my main acct followed it. Correct me if am wrong. 

 

As for reason of banning, i can understand that least veteran like you have earned is explanation for the ban, but i got awkward feeling that you are purposely leaving out some details regarding your activites ingame . I think you did something wrong other than plain shirt gift to goat ( which was dumb move as said earlier above why) cuz like you said, how can that pink shirt be reason for banning someone who donated armas so many, and who was beloved by community? Doesnt fit up, really doesnt. 

 

Would G1 company really go on personal vendetta against one individual risking all the reputation over the years?  As someone said GM's sign a contract when they become employees, they are responsible in front of real life law and police, they get to sit in G1 real life office and get paycheck for it. Would someone risk so much , get fired from real life job, risk the sue and all expenses it goes with it, just to ban one innocent Willow who was well known good Samaritan ? All that for a simple pink shirt, even if it was offered to most disgusting player in apb history?  Something doesnt fit up in your whole story  :Hmm:


Edited by Kitty Yekaterina, 23 March 2017 - 07:24 AM.

Being online doesn't mean you're suddenly not responsible for who you are. Embarrassing, threatening, harassing, attacking and insulting - based on gender, race, nationality or simple difference of opinion? ...This shows who you are as a person, sitting behind the monitor. You think nobody will care? Think again.

The age of Cancer is over. The dawn of Justice has come.

 


#175
FreeSnubnose

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the people in here defending FF and G1... I can't facepalm enough...

same people crying about G1 making SO MANY false decisions for the game and it's community... yet they act like G1 is doing "the right thing" with FF...

you guys are pathetic.



#176
Jazeker

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Aah the RTW veteran days. Yes, yes, some of us remember those very well. (and all in between)


2017, if you get hammerd by an admin for freaking cheating, and then post, on this freaking forum, about being the rtw veteran and muh money spend it is a 'false ban bc t-shirt' ... you really must be a bloody backwards drunk intoxicated doorknob.

Edited by Jazeker, 23 March 2017 - 09:48 AM.


#177
Reeses

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Got pictures of those numbers?

 

People designed and created anti cheats, people also created the same cheats being fought agianst. Ultimately people decide who cheats or not. Can you give any examples of what determines getting unbanned?

As someone who has been caught breaking the rules, yes you are being compared to other gamers. Just because a gamer hasn't banned doesn't make them objectively "Honest".

 

 

 

I was flagged on Jan 3rd, 2017 and banned on January 23rd, 2017. These are the weekly updates I received in December and the one in January. Here are the "photos" you requested. Nothing has been "photoshopped" 

 

12/9/16 Update:

 

http://imgur.com/a/Ak4GW

 

12/16/16 Update:

 

http://imgur.com/a/BjAb6

 

12/23/16 Update:

 

http://imgur.com/a/75jb8

 

12/30/16 Update:

 

http://imgur.com/a/pRmJX

 

1/6/17

 

http://imgur.com/a/pyo8j

 

I have no idea what determines who or how people get unbanned. I have no clue who or how determines you get banned. You just assume I broke rules because I am on FairFight? Considering Puck aka Tiggs (they are the same person) told me in my support email that I was "cheating." I don't have any cheats on my computer and never had, for APB or any other game. 

 

I never broke any rules while playing APB. I launched the game, joined districts, ready'd up, moved my mouse with my hand, moved my player with my keyboard and shot the guns using my right hand index finger....click click click pew pew pew. Never once did I have anything aiming for me, allowing me to see where other players were, allowed me to run faster, or give me any unfair advantage over any other player. 

 

I will freely admit that I did edit my ini for the mouse acceleration fix and to always sprint. Considering I did those edits before FairFight and for the 3 years FairFight has been running, I highly doubt that is why I was banned. Also, many other players would be banned for edits since they are fairly common and should be in the game as options anyway. Thanks G1.

 

W1LLOW is the perfect example of a player who was banned under "FairFight" for not cheating. I vs'd her on occasion and while she wasn't terrible she wasn't great. What would be the point of using "low level hacks" to appear average? To get a kill ever so often against a better player? Give me a break. If Tiggs really banned her for giving a shirt or anything to a player that is just out of control. In no way did she enable Goat to continue to make cheats or make it easier for him. If Goat whispered some new player who had no clue who he was and asked that player for clothes, mod, etc should they be banned also? 

 

If she did violate the EULA because she "associated" with Goat, then she should have been banned by a GM and not have it broadcast on FairFight. Her support ticket should have been very specific for the reason she was banned and not some copy and paste reply. 

 

What don't you understand Uube? Tiggs and TechMech always stated that FairFight collected statistics, analyzed them and then banned for things that silver admins, I mean, humans cannot possibly do. 

 

Again....who determines that? Tiggs? Who is terrible? The 2 other people that work on this game and don't play? 

 

Plenty of evidence of people who DID NOT CHEAT and are on FairFight.



#178
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We know violations of ToS, and we know that getting you banned doesnt necessarily mean you were hacker.

i cant tell if you dont understand the point willow is trying to make or if youre purposely misconstruing it, but the above quote is the entire issue
 
we know that people get ff bans for non-cheating issues, but tiggs has explicitly said that all ffbans are 100% cheating
 
it definitely makes it hard to trust g1 when they seem to have blatantly lied
 
 
 
the statement in question for anyone interested

The bans that are broadcast in-game or on the @APB_FairFight twitter feed are due to players using cheats and getting caught.  For those that are habitual cheaters,  they get moved over to the silent bans eventually.  For those that claim, omg I wasn't cheating... yes, yes you were and you've been caught. For those that emailed in and actually owned up to cheating, good for you for being honest (sucks that you cheated in the first place).


 
                                                                          
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#179
Reeses

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i cant tell if you dont understand the point willow is trying to make or if youre purposely misconstruing it, but the above quote is the entire issue
 
we know that people get ff bans for non-cheating issues, but tiggs has explicitly said that all ffbans are 100% cheating
 
it definitely makes it hard to trust g1 when they seem to have blatantly lied
 
 
 
the statement in question for anyone interested

 

Yup...this exactly. I am not the one undermining FairFight. G1 is. They use it for other reasons besides cheating to ban people. They did it from the beginning. They have unbanned people. They continue to "tweak" it. They have no clue what they are doing.



#180
Tigrix

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i cant tell if you dont understand the point willow is trying to make or if youre purposely misconstruing it, but the above quote is the entire issue
 
we know that people get ff bans for non-cheating issues, but tiggs has explicitly said that all ffbans are 100% cheating
 
it definitely makes it hard to trust g1 when they seem to have blatantly lied
 

You are assuming its lying, because you are assuming the player in question is innocent and was banned merely for playing with/supporting(making tshirts) for an infamous cheater. Should everyone just agree with these forum accs that pop-up brand new and in chorus support any topics against FF? :) 

Tell me, why would you even play a game if you believe G1 as a company is corrupt and mischievous, i.e. will ban innocent players for false

reasons at their leisure?

You stick around in such a game out of your own free will ? :Hmm:   That's the point Kitty made.... rationally, it doesn't make sense for G1 to go around perma banning veteran players ..... all while they're barely able to replenish the rapidly declining playerbase or gaining any faith at all from the remnants of those still playing.  :faq:

Now, I wish this thread would return to it's topic:
Clientside Anticheat, BattlEye .... any news, Tiggs ? 


Edited by Tigrix, 23 March 2017 - 10:26 AM.

https://www.youtube....h?v=STpXy7gXzC4

Being online doesn't mean you're suddenly not responsible for who you are. Embarrassing, threatening, harassing, attacking and insulting - based on gender, race, nationality or simple difference of opinion? ...This shows who you are as a person, sitting behind the monitor. You think nobody will care? Think again.

The age of Cancer is over. The dawn of Justice has come.


#181
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You are assuming its lying, because you are assuming the player in question is innocent and was banned merely for playing with/supporting(making tshirts) for an infamous cheater.

It all comes down to ... why would you even play a game if you believe G1 is nothing but corrupt staff who lies, bans innocents and are mischievous?
You really would stick around in such a game out of your own free will ? That's the point Kitty made.... rationally, it doesn't make sense for G1 to go around perma banning veteran players for no reason other than spite or some lesser offenses. 

its not the only case of this happening, iirc a player was banned for telling tiggs "im 12" in social and it showed up on ff bans (im not going to spend time searching for a possibly hidden/deleted thread so take this with a grain of salt)

 

i wont speak for others but i stick around because i enjoy the game, simple as that


 
                                                                          
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#182
Tigrix

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i wont speak for others but i stick around because i enjoy the game, simple as that

I was referring to people who say they got false-banned.

Not much rationality about sticking to a game if they perma banned your account and you know yourself you were innocent.


https://www.youtube....h?v=STpXy7gXzC4

Being online doesn't mean you're suddenly not responsible for who you are. Embarrassing, threatening, harassing, attacking and insulting - based on gender, race, nationality or simple difference of opinion? ...This shows who you are as a person, sitting behind the monitor. You think nobody will care? Think again.

The age of Cancer is over. The dawn of Justice has come.


#183
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I was referring to people who say they got false-banned.

Not much rationality about sticking to a game if they perma banned your account and you know yourself you were innocent.

ah

 

in that case i have no idea since ive never been falsely banned, but i imagine its some variation of the same reason

 

after all its not like theres any other apb's out there 


 
                                                                          
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#184
Reeses

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I was referring to people who say they got false-banned.

Not much rationality about sticking to a game if they perma banned your account and you know yourself you were innocent.

 

Why? APB is a game. G1 is a company. Despite the flaws of the game itself, APB is still fun. Just because my main account was banned doesn't mean I still cannot enjoy going into the game and pew pewing a bit. I wasn't looking to become famous on my main account. It is my favorite pvp shooter by far. G1 got my money from my first account, they won't get anymore money on the reroll. If I get banned again, oh well. 



#185
アリア

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Just did a quick youtube search on the topic false banned on apb. I found a few





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAbAq7y-2r0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPonlV6h3rg&t=229s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL0gp6Da8Eg

Edited by アリア, 23 March 2017 - 01:00 PM.

cnHtW4P.jpg


#186
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I was referring to people who say they got false-banned.
Not much rationality about sticking to a game if they perma banned your account and you know yourself you were innocent.



crazy concept... maybe you can like the game, like some of the people playing, and also not like the company running the game.
by not playing after a false ban, you simply miss out on a thing you enjoy... its not like G1 cares if you stop playing


and if you want to get back to the subject of the post, I think all you and kitty need to do is admit that FF is not perfect, and that G1 has been misleading in what they have said it means to get fairfighted


not really that big of a deal

#187
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Just did a quick youtube search on the topic false banned on apb. I found a fewhttps://www.youtube....h?v=zL0gp6Da8Eg




in that video from the first link, am I the only one seeing that obvious, blatant, and perfect snap at 2:58 ??????

#188
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Uube will tell you the link above is a big conspiracy so that big hacker there can convince all the good honest people in APB he was legit. Like why would the guy go through all that effort to make that video if he was cheating? I have no clue who the guy is. Is he trying to save his reputation? Whatever. The dude is like plenty of others on FairFight bans....

 

- played the game

 

- didnt cheat

 

- played for 1000s of hours

 

- spent money

 

- FF'd banned

 

- Contact support and get a "Puck You" reply

 

I guess us all of closest cheaters should have come up with different stories and excuses at our monthly hack-a-fest meetings. 

 

Keep tweaking FF Tiggs, pretty soon you might even be a legit silver at the game.



#189
Reeses

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in that video from the first link, am I the only one seeing that obvious, blatant, and perfect snap at 2:58 ??????

 

Talking about him shooting at the guys over the fence? They are pretty close to one another....it isn't that hard to "snap" your wrist and move your mouse when they are right next to each other. Plus it looks like he gets one hit marker on the guy on the right and one hit marker on the guy on the left while missing badly with every other shot. It doesn't look all that fishy to me and pretty possible to do. 




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