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2016 State of the Game


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#81
AgentNoir

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I don't think you need to defend him either.  It is not like we haven't had this discussion before.  I know his views, I just don't care for his "if you did not build your character the right way (based on the Gospel According to Nysek) you are wrong" attitude.   Basically this:

 

 

The original design of the game, did not allow for respecs.  You built your character and if you made mistakes you lived with the flaws.  The original game did not allow every faction to have empathic or nano.  Each Faction had their mutation lines.  Many of us Beta players built our characters along these lines and we were not wrong to do so.  Do not tell me I am wrong now.  Respec and Mutations changes did not come till much later.  I did get my ap reset a couple of times, but I was fine with my character for the most part so I never changed much.  Was my charcter optimized, i doubt it, but the game was challenging enough for me that I enjoyed it.

 

And nowhere in any official document I ever read stated that you must have Empathic or Nano.  As I stated before FE was to be a class-system.   It is the players who decided optimization was necessary (some players).  And lets be fair it is more important in PvP than PvE.  Which is were some of the attitude comes from.

 

I understand that the mechanics are at fault, but we should want balance not too gimmick the system. 

 

I could respec my character, go pistols instead of melee or remove crafting, but I wanted recipes so that would have been moot.   I have plenty of injectors so I could play around.  Likely my current build could do some of the rounds, but i decided if the Dome was not balanced I would not hamper a partner with a gimped melee build, most of the players i knew were long gone.  And I also look at it from a community perspective,  not everyone can respec, which means Dome is limited to a select few.  This IMO is wrong.  But it is just an opinion. 

 

If people are ok with that then fine, but then do not tell us that Dome is for everyone.  In the end the Dome was a poor design and falied to do what it was meant to do.  We have what we have and it was a disappointment to many.  That is all. 

Yes the original game didn't allow for respecs and had little proper information. The thing was this was 1 of those things that hurt fe immensely. Sounds like an interesting suggestion maybe, but when you have a game like fe where inconsistency is the only consistency really this turns into a problem for anything that may challenge this. Hell in pve back then a very generic build could do fine in it even at the endgame bosses and if you properly invested into dodge and had a decent build you broke pve then. Although then it was typically reroll or quit was more the sentiment.

 

Each faction was only introduced to some mutations. The only faction without either of nano or emp was chota. The wheel flip showed it wasn't only for certain factions as did the devs with the change to faction skills and not mutations.

 

There is no document that says that anywhere, but in this type of system no matter how you want to approach it there is degrees of efficiency. And when you have overlap or types of content certain builds or skill/mutations will do better. And that is actually how this system should shine or what not, but due to how pve was for most of fe with only pockets of difficulty here and there this was never really a developed concept and so people came to think everything should be able to do everything. This is also sort of why pvp has this attitude towards pve...pvp had to develop and realize this where as pve for the most part rarely did and after a certain point pve seemed to just go 'i wont do this'. Now I'm not sure how pve really developed in fe, but from the outside it seemed like this.

 

Depending on when you did dome I would completely agree with your sentiment in regards to being melee mostly due to stage 2 being awful for melee early on due to being forced to take damage, the snare and the balance being around high tier pistols. Outside of stage 2 that'd be the only issue. Respeccing to pistols would have solved all of it and made a crafting build stronger due to synergy and probably opened up more options.

 

Sure not everyone can respec and that is still a fault. As far as I've been concerned this was 1 of the worst things that they adapted early on as it not only hindered the game and how people explored it buildwise, but it severely punished people when they themselves put out poor information.

 

And ehh when it comes down to it this just returns the early sentiment of 'deal with it, reroll or quit' like how it was when fe launched...lol.


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#82
Jager Wolfe

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As far as the devs are concerned, I also feel they have to step up and get involved in this game again, if it is to be saved...I'm just not holding my breath for this to happen. I also feel it is not ALL on them and that very few of us have the complete story, if any of us do.

 

Yeah I have likely criticized G1 as a whole and berated the development staff...

 

As developer myself, I have fought... argued... attempted to explain why they are wrong politely with the business on many occasions.  Unfortunately when they have there minds made up, not much can be done to stop something you know will go wrong.   I once told my boss to stop inviting me to "feel good" meetings where we just lie and tell them that everything is/will be okay.

 

These days I just get some popcorn and sit back and watch ERT run around doing the funky chicken.

 

Not apologizing G1 sux! ;)

 

J


Edited by Jager Wolfe, 07 June 2016 - 03:48 PM.


#83
Jager Wolfe

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Yes the original game didn't allow for respecs and had little proper information. The thing was this was 1 of those things that hurt fe immensely. Sounds like an interesting suggestion maybe, but when you have a game like fe where inconsistency is the only consistency really this turns into a problem for anything that may challenge this. Hell in pve back then a very generic build could do fine in it even at the endgame bosses and if you properly invested into dodge and had a decent build you broke pve then. Although then it was typically reroll or quit was more the sentiment.

 

Each faction was only introduced to some mutations. The only faction without either of nano or emp was chota. The wheel flip showed it wasn't only for certain factions as did the devs with the change to faction skills and not mutations.

 

There is no document that says that anywhere, but in this type of system no matter how you want to approach it there is degrees of efficiency. And when you have overlap or types of content certain builds or skill/mutations will do better. And that is actually how this system should shine or what not, but due to how pve was for most of fe with only pockets of difficulty here and there this was never really a developed concept and so people came to think everything should be able to do everything. This is also sort of why pvp has this attitude towards pve...pvp had to develop and realize this where as pve for the most part rarely did and after a certain point pve seemed to just go 'i wont do this'. Now I'm not sure how pve really developed in fe, but from the outside it seemed like this.

 

Depending on when you did dome I would completely agree with your sentiment in regards to being melee mostly due to stage 2 being awful for melee early on due to being forced to take damage, the snare and the balance being around high tier pistols. Outside of stage 2 that'd be the only issue. Respeccing to pistols would have solved all of it and made a crafting build stronger due to synergy and probably opened up more options.

 

Sure not everyone can respec and that is still a fault. As far as I've been concerned this was 1 of the worst things that they adapted early on as it not only hindered the game and how people explored it buildwise, but it severely punished people when they themselves put out poor information.

 

And ehh when it comes down to it this just returns the early sentiment of 'deal with it, reroll or quit' like how it was when fe launched...lol.

 

I agree for the most part. 

 

I think the Dome was a big shock to the majority of the PvE community.  Those who lucked into good builds, likely did not understand, and PvPr's who were generally already min/maxed had nothing to concern themselves about.  Again there Should have Been some sort of Dome respec, that would have gone a long way.  And again once PvEr's got to the end and were looking for the next thing it was confusing that Dome wasn't it... without a respec.  And most could not afford it so they saw the Dome as a "What if".

 

I did not leave because of Dome, I left because everyone I knew was gone and there was nothing left to do I had not already done.

 

And I should mention that I do have a small female pistols empathic build that is PvP oriented, in case a guild mate wanted to PvP.  But I wouldn't use her for the Dome as I only wanted the recipes and that toon has no crafting.  If I only knew...

 

J


Edited by Jager Wolfe, 07 June 2016 - 04:11 PM.


#84
Reaps989

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Again there Should have Been some sort of Dome respec, that would have gone a long way.

 

J

 

Um... respec injectors were handed out for every major patch after 2.5, Dome included.


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#85
waiwai99

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NO worries, I am enjoying GW2 and that happens.  Some quests are easily solo-able on one class and not for another (so I grit my teeth through it or bring a friend), but there is plenty of other content too.

 

But in FE, at the end, all there was was Citadel and Dome.

 

And I decided to leave it.  Which is fine.  As many others have stated, I did not want Dome.  It would have been a minor distraction. I just  decided the hassle of recreating my character didn't interest me enough to do the Dome.

I came back to check out Outpost, but by then my interest had waned.

 

I still think FE was one of the best games of its time, it just did not live up to what it could have been.

 

If they truly wanted the Dome to be challenging and for everyone they should have made repecs free or allowed players to respec just for the Dome itself.  That would have allowed others to try things out and get the right feel for what they should work towards

 

how about dome respecs? You can respec by doing dome. I see your main problem you don't want to get empathic, and in solo it's ok, but dome is for 2 and you want to play with yourself all the time right? Healing others and being a team player is too much of a hassle for you. 

 

Dome 1-9 is boring, 10 is fun.

 

and here's another good point of dome, if you can do dome you're automatically will suck much less in pvp by a large margin because you're already know how to crossheal, but I suppose you still don't. 

 

P:s even round 10 possible with melee.



#86
Reaps989

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P:s even round 10 possible with melee.

 

Only roughs 3 and 7 I think would be a pain with two melee... the rest not so much if you know how to position yourselves on Snuggles.


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#87
waiwai99

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Only roughs 3 and 7 I think would be a pain with two melee... the rest not so much if you know how to position yourselves on Snuggles.

positioning and timings, that's what dome is all about.



#88
Jager Wolfe

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Um... respec injectors were handed out for every major patch after 2.5, Dome included.

 

Again you only look at it from my perspective.  I have injectors & I could respec.  I chose not too because I decided it was not worth it and I am fine with that. 

 

Personally even if I did I would likely need to respec back and forth multiple times.  I like my build as it is, which is why the requirement to have a specific build(s) is irritating, because it means I cannot play the way I enjoy.  For example I use HW, but I would likely spec out o that for Dome... but I like HW, so would want that back.

 

Other PvErs, those that came after Dome, those without injectors are SoL and that is my point.  When I was in Citadel and toons asked what can they do after Citadel and the only option was Dome, they usually then discovered they could not do it (well maybe they could but painfully) without a respec.  Most gave up.

 

Now People look at the Community and some wonder why it has disappeared.  PvErs say no/bad content.  PvPrs say we got Gore, Farm, Dome & Outpost.  PvErs say Fail, Fail, Fail & Fail.  Everyone has there reasons but in the end G1 failed to deliver.

 

 

and here's another good point of dome, if you can do dome you're automatically will suck much less in pvp by a large margin because you're already know how to crossheal, but I suppose you still don't. 

 

 

Not the issue.  I did not buy FE to PvP.  I have no interest in PvP, changing my build to improve my chances in Dome would be for Dome only,  I would change back to my original skills (mostly due to my needs to craft).  Never tell a PvEr that they need to PvP. ;P

 

I used to play Counterstrike for years, even got in the top 5 ranking within my group (which hardly means I am good, but I did improve). What I discovered is even when I won I was not having fun.  Do not assume that the reason ones does not PvP  is because they suck at PvP. 

 

And I have an empathic Toon with Pistols and understand the mechanic, that is not the point.

 

But this is more time than I intended to waste in here. 

 

Good Luck,

 

J


Edited by Jager Wolfe, 08 June 2016 - 10:57 AM.


#89
waiwai99

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Again you only look at it from my perspective.  I have injectors & I could respec.  I chose not too because I decided it was not worth it and I am fine with that. 

 

Personally even if I did I would likely need to respec back and forth multiple times.  I like my build as it is, which is why the requirement to have a specific build(s) is irritating, because it means I cannot play the way I enjoy.  For example I use HW, but I would likely spec out o that for Dome... but I like HW, so would want that back.

 

Other PvErs, those that came after Dome, those without injectors are SoL and that is my point.  When I was in Citadel and toons asked what can they do after Citadel and the only option was Dome, they usually then discovered they could not do it (well maybe they could but painfully) without a respec.  Most gave up.

 

Now People look at the Community and some wonder why it has disappeared.  PvErs say no/bad content.  PvPrs say we got Gore, Farm, Dome & Outpost.  PvErs say Fail, Fail, Fail & Fail.  Everyone has there reasons but in the end G1 failed to deliver.

 

 

Not the issue.  I did not buy FE to PvP.  I have no interest in PvP, changing my build to improve my chances in Dome would be for Dome only,  I would change back to my original skills (mostly due to my needs to craft).  Never tell a PvEr that they need to PvP. ;P

 

I used to play Counterstrike for years, even got in the top 5 ranking within my group (which hardly means I am good, but I did improve). What I discovered is even when I won I was not having fun.  Do not assume that the reason ones does not PvP  is because they suck at PvP. 

 

And I have an empathic Toon with Pistols and understand the mechanic, that is not the point.

 

But this is more time than I intended to waste in here. 

 

Good Luck,

 

J

 

Well I can understand the frustration with builds, because you can't have a toon for every situation, you have to make new ones, pvp s2, pvp s3, dome tank, dome healer, pvp 55, this is frustrating for sure.

 

and hw is not that bad in dome, like nysek said you only need some armor use, first aid, empathic to do dome succesfully, and you do need hw for round 10 btw so you probably can do really small changes to your build and be able to do even round 10.

 

90% of ppl who I called in to pvp with me enjoyed it, because it's really fun, I did all the pve content, dome through and through and in the end there was only pvp, after 400 hrs if you want to do just PvE you might just leave because there's nothing to do after that.

 

but you're right not worth it to stay here anymore. 



#90
Jager Wolfe

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Well I can understand the frustration with builds, because you can't have a toon for every situation, you have to make new ones, pvp s2, pvp s3, dome tank, dome healer, pvp 55, this is frustrating for sure.

 

and hw is not that bad in dome, like nysek said you only need some armor use, first aid, empathic to do dome succesfully, and you do need hw for round 10 btw so you probably can do really small changes to your build and be able to do even round 10.

 

90% of ppl who I called in to pvp with me enjoyed it, because it's really fun, I did all the pve content, dome through and through and in the end there was only pvp, after 400 hrs if you want to do just PvE you might just leave because there's nothing to do after that.

 

but you're right not worth it to stay here anymore. 

 

400 hrs?  That sounds more like the time I spent in Beta.  Add a zero to that and you might be half way there  ;)


Edited by Jager Wolfe, 08 June 2016 - 03:11 PM.


#91
Reaps989

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Well I can understand the frustration with builds, because you can't have a toon for every situation, you have to make new ones, pvp s2, pvp s3, dome tank, dome healer, pvp 55, this is frustrating for sure.

 

and hw is not that bad in dome, like nysek said you only need some armor use, first aid, empathic to do dome succesfully, and you do need hw for round 10 btw so you probably can do really small changes to your build and be able to do even round 10.

 

90% of ppl who I called in to pvp with me enjoyed it, because it's really fun, I did all the pve content, dome through and through and in the end there was only pvp, after 400 hrs if you want to do just PvE you might just leave because there's nothing to do after that.

 

but you're right not worth it to stay here anymore. 

 

 

Strange... my build worked for every sector for PVP, PVE, and tanking or healing in Dome. It definitely wouldn't be the best tank in Dome, but does it easily.

 

HW is good for round 10 but only due to NE mini-missions. But HW is only useful in PVP for blocking revives or when you have enough to actually punish (or instagib) the enemy from certain locations. Basically, area denial in PVP.

 

But agreed on PVE... it dies off after S1. Not that S2 and S3 have nothing to offer, S1 is just the superior zone for PVE.

 

 

@Jager Wolfe

 

My guides are facts, my advice is optional regardless if you take it or leave it. But when I said your build isn't optimized, then it probably is not. I can only make recommendations to change it if you have to sacrifice something... which would mean you'd be "forced" to change your build.

I never claimed Dome was a good addition to FE, but the fact you claim your build "should" work because you made a choice that you refuse to accept is bad (for what you wanted to do, which is Dome) is quite ignorant.

 

Claiming me as bias is the same as you claiming your build should be fine for Dome.... difference is mine works while yours clearly has not.

 

P.S. You don't need Nano for Dome, it just helps. Which, actually, you don't even need Empathic if you knew what you were doing... but the fact you never figured it out is quite funny. But it easily out-heals all ranks of Empathic (self or other) when done properly.

 

Which I may do a video of it once I get another AP weapon on Mednaught, but I don't know if I can be bothered to get another 550k DT... but I guess I can still use my current weapon as a solid example.

 

The fact you continue to claim melee crafters cannot do Dome, when plenty of melee crafters have completed it, is ludicrous.


Edited by Reaps989, 08 June 2016 - 11:42 PM.

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#92
Mutarenebula

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OK...topic change here.. I am fuzzy bunnying about getting a State of the Game in here from the devs..lets hash out all the FE issues in another thread please.


Being responsible sometimes means pissing people off.

#93
DakkaDakkaDakka

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OK...topic change here.. I am fuzzy bunnying about getting a State of the Game in here from the devs..lets hash out all the FE issues in another thread please.


I doubt there are devs or that anything here is read. Look at outpost it's like a drunken five year old mashed some playdoh together. That was released without even any announcement haha

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#94
MystMan

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AroSei's last posts:

 

http://forums.gamers...5/#entry4205018            30 sep 2015

 

Tigg's last post:

 

http://forums.gamers...e/#entry4234168        6 nov 2015

 

 

Yeeeeaahhh, we're never going to see any staff posts in here again unless it's to announce they're pulling the plug.

 

The only info they do regularly update is the monthly reward & sales info on the main page, for the new players / suckers actually giving money to G1 they don't deserve.



#95
waiwai99

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400 hrs?  That sounds more like the time I spent in Beta.  Add a zero to that and you might be half way there  ;)

I did everything there is to be done with pve at 400 hrs, no way you've spent 4000 hrs in pve, what were you doing? And if you did in fact spend so much time then I can understand why you're so upset, A lot of this time in pve was stupid grind for money for me, I mean I got my gt suit by selling salvaged fasteners lol.

 

Strange... my build worked for every sector for PVP, PVE, and tanking or healing in Dome. It definitely wouldn't be the best tank in Dome, but does it easily.

 

HW is good for round 10 but only due to NE mini-missions. But HW is only useful in PVP for blocking revives or when you have enough to actually punish (or instagib) the enemy from certain locations. Basically, area denial in PVP.

 

But agreed on PVE... it dies off after S1. Not that S2 and S3 have nothing to offer, S1 is just the superior zone for PVE.

 

You can't have just one toon and do everything in game, so if you want to do pvp in low zones you have to make new toon, for dome too, it is possible for sure to get by with any build in dome, but to make it really painless you would want  to have special build for it.

 

OK...topic change here.. I am fuzzy bunnying about getting a State of the Game in here from the devs..lets hash out all the FE issues in another thread please.

Devs don't reply on forums, not in fe section at least.



#96
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I did everything there is to be done with pve at 400 hrs, no way you've spent 4000 hrs in pve, what were you doing? 

 

Clear-questing the game takes thousands of hours.

 

Each sector is littered with a lot of quests and lore, they all don't just start in the towns since some are quite hidden in the middle of nowhere. 

Most importantly, there are quite a lot  of PVE faction quests in their respective towns, including inside PVP zones despite having no influence to the pvp zone mechanics at all (brilliant game design choice there!   :badcomputer:  ).

 

And since you can only be friends with 3 factions, you cannot do the quests tied to the opposite faction with the same toon. You need to start over with a new toon to do them.  Resetting faction rep back to zero will not help since previous quests will be locked off once your level passes a certain point.

 

So if you rushed it all in 400 hours, you missed half the PVE content.



#97
waiwai99

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Clear-questing the game takes thousands of hours.

 

Each sector is littered with a lot of quests and lore, they all don't just start in the towns since some are quite hidden in the middle of nowhere. 

Most importantly, there are quite a lot  of PVE faction quests in their respective towns, including inside PVP zones despite having no influence to the pvp zone mechanics at all (brilliant game design choice there!   :badcomputer:  ).

 

And since you can only be friends with 3 factions, you cannot do the quests tied to the opposite faction with the same toon. You need to start over with a new toon to do them.  Resetting faction rep back to zero will not help since previous quests will be locked off once your level passes a certain point.

 

So if you rushed it all in 400 hours, you missed half the PVE content.

I really don't think I missed that much, sure I skipped alpha because it's dogshyte of a sector, and some faction missions but not that many, I cleared town after town up to sector 3, and even deadfall. Nope, I can't agree that there's thousands of hrs of content, unless you count making new character just to go through faction missions and you're hell of a slow at doing it.



#98
Reaps989

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You can't have just one toon and do everything in game, so if you want to do pvp in low zones you have to make new toon, for dome too, it is possible for sure to get by with any build in dome, but to make it really painless you would want  to have special build for it.

 

Let's see...

 

  • 13% armor use passive
  • Dodge - Because why not?
  • Rifle - Works in PVE and PVP
  • Nano - Don't work solo but works great in groups
  • First Aid and Empathic - Works in solo and in groups
  • Power and Precision - DPS increase
  • ANY Aura : Quite literally, running 132 Illumination right now actually.
  • Patho : Only really a huge deal in PVP, the AoE snare is handy in PVE tho.

 

The only difference is at lower level PVP, I'd skip on power and most likely dodge.

 

Now if you said "You need a low level toon for PVP"... then I might agree. Not that I can't just hop into S3 on Nysek and not give a damn. So that leaves S2 and S3... oh no I'd need ONE extra toon.

 

You have never, and will never, need a "new" toon for Dome. If you have at least 156 FA and 129 Empathic, you can at least get to round 10. Even then, once you understand Round 10's mechanics it's easy as hell.

 

Do enlighten me, since the only "real" Dome build is a Primal Tank... that's it. And if people were smart they'd actually spec into the true "OP" stat for Dome since it has no counter.

 

Someone toss me a SIR so I don't have to live through the cancer of farming one in this dead game xD

 

Edit : Nvm, can just grab a cleanser for 5$


Edited by Reaps989, 11 June 2016 - 03:00 AM.

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#99
waiwai99

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Yeah that's my bad wording, I meant low lvl toon. In s3 you will be comfortable on 55 only at park city, the other zones have pretty harsh debuff.

 

You can get to round 10 with almost anything, I agree with that, but 10 you can't do with just that.

 

Primal is not really necessary for r10 can use EA, but primal is just the easiest way to go. 

 

I'm just saying that it's nice to have toon just for dome, the difference in how fast you can do it, 15-17 minutes or over 20, if you consider you need to do a lot of it it's kind of worth it.



#100
Reaps989

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Yeah that's my bad wording, I meant low lvl toon. In s3 you will be comfortable on 55 only at park city, the other zones have pretty harsh debuff.

 

You can get to round 10 with almost anything, I agree with that, but 10 you can't do with just that.

 

Primal is not really necessary for r10 can use EA, but primal is just the easiest way to go. 

 

I'm just saying that it's nice to have toon just for dome, the difference in how fast you can do it, 15-17 minutes or over 20, if you consider you need to do a lot of it it's kind of worth it.

 

I guess running it faster isn't a bad idea, but ya besides the PVP debuff (especially the higher-end one) there's no real reason to have another toon unless you're looking for something like that.

 

I'd rather spend 5 more minutes on a toon I enjoy, rather than something that I only use for that.


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#101
Calais

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Many of us with multiple chars and accounts made them out of love for the game. Making new chars and spending time leveling and gearing them up gave us something else to do besides standing around Citadel crafting or LA/TC waiting for PvP which is more mind numbing than just flat out grinding levels endlessly. Plus it opened up opportunity for friends and new players alike to be helped leveling to endgame. But yeah if you're just a casual or don't play for several hours each day then 1 char is more than enough to do the general things throughout the wastelands.


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#102
Reaps989

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Many of us with multiple chars and accounts made them out of love for the game. Making new chars and spending time leveling and gearing them up gave us something else to do besides standing around Citadel crafting or LA/TC waiting for PvP which is more mind numbing than just flat out grinding levels endlessly. Plus it opened up opportunity for friends and new players alike to be helped leveling to endgame. But yeah if you're just a casual or don't play for several hours each day then 1 char is more than enough to do the general things throughout the wastelands.

 

There's this, I kinda just get my entertainment from new players inspired to play and learn. Making a new toon isn't required for me, I do have quite a few tho.


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#103
StubbyClaps

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Many of us with multiple chars and accounts made them out of love for the game. Making new chars and spending time leveling and gearing them up gave us something else to do besides standing around Citadel crafting or LA/TC waiting for PvP which is more mind numbing than just flat out grinding levels endlessly. Plus it opened up opportunity for friends and new players alike to be helped leveling to endgame. But yeah if you're just a casual or don't play for several hours each day then 1 char is more than enough to do the general things throughout the wastelands.

 

I've always stuck to the idea of having one toon. I have one or two as mules of course. Respecs and knowledge are what I use to change up builds.


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#104
AgentNoir

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You can't have just one toon and do everything in game, so if you want to do pvp in low zones you have to make new toon, for dome too, it is possible for sure to get by with any build in dome, but to make it really painless you would want  to have special build for it.

Dome doesn't require a new build really. Low level pvp is basically just scumbagging it(yeah i get its the same circle jerk now but never found it fun to go and stomp on scrubs the entire time while basically falling asleep and getting worse at the game cause they know nothing when it was active).
 

Many of us with multiple chars and accounts made them out of love for the game. Making new chars and spending time leveling and gearing them up gave us something else to do besides standing around Citadel crafting or LA/TC waiting for PvP which is more mind numbing than just flat out grinding levels endlessly. Plus it opened up opportunity for friends and new players alike to be helped leveling to endgame. But yeah if you're just a casual or don't play for several hours each day then 1 char is more than enough to do the general things throughout the wastelands.

I could see the friends/new players but personally I'd rather stand on a tent or run around in circles than level another character. Yeah it's a fraction of the time now but still boring.
 

I really don't think I missed that much, sure I skipped alpha because it's dogshyte of a sector, and some faction missions but not that many, I cleared town after town up to sector 3, and even deadfall. Nope, I can't agree that there's thousands of hrs of content, unless you count making new character just to go through faction missions and you're hell of a slow at doing it.

Actually in terms of being a completionist there are plenty of small areas or mission chains off the main towns or marked spots on the map. That would be what they are referring to. Then there are always boss drops. Serendipity mobs. Crafting etc. Plenty of pve to waste more than 400 hours on.

OK...topic change here.. I am fuzzy bunnying about getting a State of the Game in here from the devs..lets hash out all the FE issues in another thread please.

Good luck even when devs asked for discussion threads they didn't join them lol.

Last time they prob did was neverender and prob affa before that.

Edited by AgentNoir, 14 June 2016 - 05:59 AM.

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#105
LilRedhare

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Many of us with multiple chars and accounts made them out of love for the game. Making new chars and spending time leveling and gearing them up gave us something else to do besides standing around Citadel crafting or LA/TC waiting for PvP which is more mind numbing than just flat out grinding levels endlessly. Plus it opened up opportunity for friends and new players alike to be helped leveling to endgame. But yeah if you're just a casual or don't play for several hours each day then 1 char is more than enough to do the general things throughout the wastelands.

As much as I love the game, I've never really wanted more than one toon. I took my time getting to level 55 (the better part of a year) and have changed builds several times, from a very badly put together nano PvE rifle/pistol to the current sustain pistol today. I do have two alts, neither of which I'm all that interested in leveling past 32 and 13, respectively (although Kitness may get to level 55 now that she's back in Dying Light). I do everything on one toon, because I'm not all that motivated to level another one, which was fun once, but about as appealing as filing income tax nowadays.


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#106
waiwai99

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Dome doesn't require a new build really. Low level pvp is basically just scumbagging it(yeah i get its the same circle jerk now but never found it fun to go and stomp on scrubs the entire time while basically falling asleep and getting worse at the game cause they know nothing when it was active).
 

 

Dome doesn't require new build, except for 10 but it's nice to have special build for it. Low lvl pvp can be fun and actually is more fun than 55, how I remember it, 99% of the time fights were with people who had 55 alts, so stomping scrubs was minimum, and when it did happen and scrubs got stomped, I met one after a while when he was 55, he said it was the most fun he had in the game, when they ganged up with 4 and finally killed me :)

 

Actually in terms of being a completionist there are plenty of small areas or mission chains off the main towns or marked spots on the map. That would be what they are referring to. Then there are always boss drops. Serendipity mobs. Crafting etc. Plenty of pve to waste more than 400 hours on.

Well, ok, I correct myself somewhat fun pve is at 400 hrs mark, killing one mob 70000 times is not what I would consider fun. But sure, if you want to complete everything then it can take forever



#107
AgentNoir

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Dome doesn't require new build, except for 10 but it's nice to have special build for it. Low lvl pvp can be fun and actually is more fun than 55, how I remember it, 99% of the time fights were with people who had 55 alts, so stomping scrubs was minimum, and when it did happen and scrubs got stomped, I met one after a while when he was 55, he said it was the most fun he had in the game, when they ganged up with 4 and finally killed me :)

 

Well, ok, I correct myself somewhat fun pve is at 400 hrs mark, killing one mob 70000 times is not what I would consider fun. But sure, if you want to complete everything then it can take forever

For some that'd be true but personally I just don't like the idea of low level alts and controlling down there personally as most of it is really easy and even more so if they are new. And yeah that's what I mean though at a point all it turned into was alts fighting alts. Depending on who there wouldn't even be a fight they would wait till you logged...cap a point drop guards and leave. Meh I did some low level stuff hunting clans or alts, but it wasn't much different from cap level. The biggest thing maybe that there were some cheesier tactics, but that's about it. Just sort of reminded me of the boring tactics people used to take towns.

 

Well yeah you were talking to pvers in the sense that they did all the stuff. Not just the ap missions or the marked towns but all of it.


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#108
Mutarenebula

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7 or 8 year anniversary is upcoming...anyone interested in having a get together ?

 

 

Maybe we can get an update from the devs? as the games anniversary is coming?


Edited by Mutarenebula, 30 July 2016 - 05:58 PM.

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#109
EvilPeppard

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7 or 8 year anniversary is upcoming...anyone interested in having a get together ?

 

 

Maybe we can get an update from the devs? as the games anniversary is coming?

I wish. We've been trying to get an 'update' since you first posted in February with no luck.

 

Sadly, I doubt we'll get any kind of update on the anniversary.



#110
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We need to do more than just organize Pow Wows and sing "Kumbaya" around a camp fire (in game) and wait for them to notice. Everyone is complaining about updates and patches YET we are sitting here letting this awesome game rot. ORGANIZE!

As a community let's form ideas and brainstorm these things out to grab their attention, I had the idea of raising money as a community and inquiring about the rights of the game, I've heard stories of this before, it might seem a bit radical and far fetched but what other options do we have? 

 

If you love this game, and you want it to last, you have to do what you have to do...


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#111
Mutarenebula

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Like what else? Run the oldest faction clan in the game and help new players since August 2009? www.theawakenedorder.guildlaunch.com.   Help set up the original marketplace with Jude Fox and TAO when there was no auction channel or global channel in game, so folks had a place to buy, sell and trade? Join the Hazmat team and volunteer my free time to G1? been there, done that.  I have done my part. What have you all done?


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#112
Calais

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We need to do more than just organize Pow Wows and sing "Kumbaya" around a camp fire (in game) and wait for them to notice. Everyone is complaining about updates and patches YET we are sitting here letting this awesome game rot. ORGANIZE!

As a community let's form ideas and brainstorm these things out to grab their attention, I had the idea of raising money as a community and inquiring about the rights of the game, I've heard stories of this before, it might seem a bit radical and far fetched but what other options do we have? 

 

If you love this game, and you want it to last, you have to do what you have to do...

It's great people are enthusiastic about the game but at this point it's just a bandwagon for people to feel important. Most people are just panhandlers with a large amount of unwanted self importance and entitlement from running Citadel, OP or attending Crafters Market a few times.

Actually supporting the game is putting your money where your mouth is and buying stuff from the marketplace or paying a monthly subscription. You'd be hard pressed to get near $1,000 USD from the community to fund any sort of development and you only need to look at the auctioneer in Fallen Earth now that a lot of us no longer play and you wont see any marketplace items (especially not tradeable premiums) as there's only panhandlers remaining.


Edited by Calais, 01 August 2016 - 06:43 PM.

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#113
Reaps989

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It's great people are enthusiastic about the game but at this point it's just a bandwagon for people to feel important. Most people are just panhandlers with a large amount of unwanted self importance and entitlement from running Citadel, OP or attending Crafters Market a few times.

Actually supporting the game is putting your money where your mouth is and buying stuff from the marketplace or paying a monthly subscription. You'd be hard pressed to get near $1,000 USD from the community to fund any sort of development and you only need to look at the auctioneer in Fallen Earth now that a lot of us no longer play and you wont see any marketplace items (especially not tradeable premiums) as there's only panhandlers remaining.

 

Eh I threw another 35 to them recently, not saying much but fact is this...

 

Money will not fix the lack of dedication shown by the Devs to address past content, let alone in a manner that keeps them viable for newer players.


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#114
AnarchoNomad

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Clearly 

 

Like what else? Run the oldest faction clan in the game and help new players since August 2009? www.theawakenedorder.guildlaunch.com.   Help set up the original marketplace with Jude Fox and TAO when there was no auction channel or global channel in game, so folks had a place to buy, sell and trade? Join the Hazmat team and volunteer my free time to G1? been there, done that.  I have done my part. What have you all done?

Clearly it wasn't enough. 


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#115
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Clearly it wasn't enough. 

 

Dunno why you made this topic since this one was already made with the same intent but had you read it, you'd know that the players have attempted quite a lot many many many times for years to get some attention. 

It is beyond 100000% any shadow of doubt that the devs will not do anything, not even if we fart rainbows made of all positive thinking magical energy. Hell, they won't budge even if money was offered, since nobody reads these forums or answers emails.

 

Refusing to accept this is some serious you-need-medication levels of denial.


Edited by MystMan, 02 August 2016 - 02:48 PM.


#116
AnarchoNomad

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Dunno why you made this topic since this one was already made with the same intent but had you read it, you'd know that the players have attempted quite a lot many many many times for years to get some attention. 

It is beyond 100000% any shadow of doubt that the devs will not do anything, not even if we fart rainbows made of all positive thinking magical energy. Hell, they won't budge even if money was offered, since nobody reads these forums or answers emails.

 

Refusing to accept this is some serious you-need-medication levels of denial.

But did we try this?^ No? Ok. I'm tired of hearing players say they love this game and act like organizing a crafting party was all the effort they can expend. And no, I didn't see any intent related to the one I made. Moving forward, I don't think we've tried enough, my only point.


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#117
MystMan

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You keep using the word "enough" without defining a feasible realistic goal for it.

 

- we wrote emails

- hazmat/decon tried again and again to change things and were ignored every time

- people like Ardenn held a great many crafter's market events

 

 

All of the above was mentioned in the thread you clearly didn't bother to read.

 

 

now...who are you and what have you done to be telling others "you haven't done enough" ?

 

There is a limit to what consumers can do to keep a product from dying. We have reached that limit a long time ago.

The game and its Intellectual Property are in the hands of people who clearly aren't interested in doing anything about it anymore. There is nothing left we, the players, can do. The playerbase has shrunk significantly that there is no way it can make big waves to get anybody's attention.



#118
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I have a reccuring thought - why did original company fired most of dev team? Why did they sell their product off to g1? What's wrong with fe? Why didn't it make enough money? Why is this project cursed with bad luck? Why is it at every step one step short of success? What's wrong with fe? What caused this failure?

Edit :

Did icarus foresee that fe was unsalvageable and that all the diseases plaguing it now were unavoidable? That they were going to lose money on this and the best thing was to sell this sick horse to someone else? Was it really that unprofitable?

How much does it cost g1 to run this product monthly? With so very little people how is it not costing them more server fees than whatever players give in g1 dollars?

 

 Lots of questions to cover here.

 

Most of the Icarus Dev team was laid off because funding was suddenly pulled without warning.  You can't keep people you if can't pay them.  I can only speculate why funding was pulled, but I have a pretty good idea.  It has a lot to do with psychology and business.  For anyone that wants to follow along, please watch these wonderfully informative videos by Extra Credtis about where the money to make games comes from:

 

 

Still with me?  Good.  Back to the question.  Why was funding pulled from Icarus Studios?  It was originally owned by a team of investors.  They would only see a profit when the company was sold.  With a likely investment of more than $60mm, that company better create something amazing.  And Icarus Studios did make something worth a lot of money.  No, not Fallen Earth.  A single game might be a flop, but an engine other studios can license to make their own MMOs?  $$$!!!  Fallen Earth was created to sell the Icarus Studios Platform:

 

 

Bingo.  The investors have a company they can sell on a profit.  And so they did.  In the last weeks after the lead game designer left and just before the April 30, 2010 lay offs, all the Devs were asked to work excessive overtime then laid off without warning.  Four days later, it was announced Fallen Earth had a new distributor.  Unlike the investors, the new owners could actually make money by selling licenses of the game engine.

 

Boy, were the Devs pissed.  One of the leads knew it was coming too.  He left the company in complete disgrace and even refused his final paycheck.  I can only guess he was trying to keep the investors interested and thus keep everyone employed for a while longer, but when you're talking about millions of dollars in costs and profits then I can see where business has to come first.  But because the Devs had no warning, a number of things were left half completed.  I suspect there are several small projects to add to the game just sitting there unnoticed.  When you work in the game industry, this story of Dev heart ache is all too common.

 

The new owners rehired a small number of the former and new Devs to do bug fixes and continue creating content, but with a much smaller budget.  An MMO loses steam quickly if it doesn't have a stream of new content and new players.  Of course, the whole reason they bought the company was to get rights to the engine.  Perhaps when they get some sales of the engine license then they can invest some more back in the game.  Sounds fair, right?  It would if the engine sold well.  It did not.  Slowly it became more apparent Fallen Earth was only standing on it's own merits.  Creating new content for an MMO is only as lucrative as the market allows, and this is a niche market.  A market flooded with bad games that make it hard for new players to find the good ones where they can invest their time and money.  A market with where one game, WOW, dominates the scene so much that other MMOs trickle to nothing.

 

Eventually, the Fallen Earth IP was sold to GamersFirst and they made the game F2P to bring in a new player base and revenue stream.  They're only able to get new content for the game by hiring companies with licensed rights to the game engine to make said content.  It would help to hire experienced game designers to help create content, but they're often just too expensive and so the quality of new content suffers.

 

So what can we do now?  Fallen Earth is no longer tied directly to the engine it was made to sell, so money used to buy engine licenses no longer affect the game.  I'm afraid the game is done unless someone sends an enormous sum of money to pay for some work by an engine license holder and the consultation of an experienced game designer.


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#119
AgentNoir

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Your general overview of the situation was basically what could be gathered or was reported as to what happened with the exception of some details such as the 1 lead dev walking etc.

The videos although neat do show their age and what not. The second video is good the first is pretty well mommy. The second goes more in depth with some stuff and explains the general processes with risk/reward etc. The first is some vague 'more stuff will be mmo based' ignoring the fact much of what he talked about when the video was made was already popular and what not but with varying degrees of success or approval. The first just seemed like some vague 'as the current trends show more stuff will be experimented with due to over-saturation in this one area'.

And as an ex dev and player you should be able to realize that wow isn't really an applicable blame for fe. Considering it has been heavily lambasted among the community since fe's release. HPC, tab target jokes and the like show this. The video that noted this was more referring to games 5 years ago where they all had similar ui's and setups with some variations here and there differentiating them...as could be noted if looking at aeris(and 1 or 2 other publishers of similar clones).

Can't comment on the last part as I can't claim any actual knowledge or information on contracts and the like when it comes to fe. It does explain why certain changes couldn't be made or certain routes require very roundabout methods. Although it seems a bit broad with the content tag as this does seem to suggest aesthetics and the like which for the most part are where their main releases over the last couple years.


We need to do more than just organize Pow Wows and sing "Kumbaya" around a camp fire (in game) and wait for them to notice. Everyone is complaining about updates and patches YET we are sitting here letting this awesome game rot. ORGANIZE!
As a community let's form ideas and brainstorm these things out to grab their attention, I had the idea of raising money as a community and inquiring about the rights of the game, I've heard stories of this before, it might seem a bit radical and far fetched but what other options do we have? 
 
If you love this game, and you want it to last, you have to do what you have to do...

Different circumstances. And typically those types of games either had a few fork over a lot or people that numbered as a small amount what fe had at it's absolute most.

Too little too late. This topic is just over 5 months old and it has 3 pages. With maybe 2 dozen unique(hell lets say 3 dozen) contributors. Enjoy the time you had in fe and move on sadly.

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#120
DakkaDakkaDakka

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Junkshop, thank you very much for taking time to write a long and meaningful reply. I appreciate it.

EDIT:
 

I don't know what thread Tiggs alluded to when she locked my topic, so here's a copy here so you can talk here instead, I can only assume she meant this dead thread that people aren't likely to actually read again even if I added something like this. But okay here we go
 

Bjorn Book-Larsson (reloaded games ceo) - "Why Free-to-Play MMOs Don't Work, From the People that Own the Free-to-Play Trademark!"

 

https://archive.org/...NEXT2013Larsson
 

tl;dw - Story driven stuff that critics enjoy isn't a good game for f2p model. Addictive, "sticky" games that players can't stop playing is good for f2p.

long version :

apb makes ~1 million $ / month despite metacritic score of 56
fe makes less than 100k $ / month with a metacritic score of 71

(21:39 in video)
"So we make 10 times as much money on this supposedly "bad" game than we do on this supposedly "good" game."

(At 16:45)
"A good example that doesn't work in free to play is a story driven game with a finite sort of beginning and an end... Those type of things should never be free to play games, they're very difficult to make free to play because they're one time consumables... It's like going to watch a movie and then asking people to pay once the movie is over as opposed to before you have watched it."

To tack on to that from a different video - GDC 2015: Mastering the Art of Monetization

(warning it's really LOUD intro music)

()
(at 5:40)
"If your game is very story driven or is like an experience almost it's very difficult to make that a free to play game and probably shouldn't be. [...] It's almost like a difference between a movie experience and a television series, Right? So if you have the movie experience that can be played through a couple of times at most then it's not a good free to play game... The other thing too a good free to play game is when a core design allows the players to be the content as well... So the more players you have, the more liquidity you have, the more content the players make the better it's going to be suited for free to play because you have the ability to let the players build their own economy and systems" ... "Story driven stuff is really still the premium category much better than free category."

To add onto that from "https://www.engadget...-apbs-layoffs/"

"Book-Larsson stressed to me that the majority of those laid off on the APB side were community and production staff, not coders and engineers, and in fact the studio also brought in some new staffers who'd previously worked on the studio's periphery (on Fallen Earth), though admittedly it wasn't a one-to-one replacement. "

so you got a "bad product" ("not lots revenue") and a "good product" that maybe struggling, so makes sense, put your effort and focus in the good one...

obviously I'm assuming here he's talking about fe or games like fe and not something else.
 


Edited by DakkaDakkaDakka, 19 August 2016 - 07:31 PM.

My locked & deleted thread (google cache) about reloaded games ceo saying <story-driven> f2p mmo's don't work  :
http://webcache.goog...n&ct=clnk&gl=ca



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