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Idea to offer more balance options for weapons and spawns at the same time:

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#1
mynd

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As title says.

 

What if the primary weapon you are using influenced the distance you could respawn at?

 

Let's say the base respawn range from an objective is approximately 75m.  That is the closest spawn the system would give you by default.  Now, let's consider weapon classes and how it would fit into my idea.  SMGs have about a 30m effective range, so a user with an SMG would spawn at 70m + 30m for the weapon they're using, so 105m away from objective.  HVR users have a 90m effective range, so they would have a minimum spawn of 165m.

 

Not only does a change like this address many issues, particularly long range weaponed players respawning practically in LOS, it could even add another level of strategy to missions and what weapons are taken.  Consider not equipping a primary and having a spawn range of 75m.  That would have its benefits in a team composition right?

 

TL:DR Overview:

* Base spawn range of 75m of objective

- No primary equipped = 75m spawns

- Assault Rifle spawn range 75m + 50m (effective range of ARs) = 125m spawns

- SMG spawn range 75m + 30m = 105m spawns

- Osmaw spawn range 75m + 145 (effective rocket range) = 220m spawns

 

Obviously, not all weapons are uniform in their ranges within each class, ie. Rifles having 40m and 60m effective ranged weapons within the class, so spawn ranges would be entirely determined by the weapon's effective range itself and not the weapon's class.  The base range could also be set to whatever would be more fitting, but the concept here is that the weapon chosen influences the range for which a player can respawn.

 

The system could also consider attacking and defending meaning attackers may be exempt or have a different minimum range and a smaller percentage penalty for weapons chosen.  I think we can all agree that defending is significantly easier than attacking in almost every situation.

 

For car spawners, add the effective range of the weapon to the minimum base spawn range of the car from the objective which is what, 35m?  So HVR could not use a car spawner that was any closer than 125m from point.  Car spawner would still provide a bonus, plus a tactically advantageous spawn when positioned properly, but wouldn't be the OP garbage it is now.


Edited by mynd, 14 October 2015 - 12:07 PM.


#2
TheFreelancer

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Could fix some issues yes

#3
Raptros

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I definitely like the idea, it's something I haven't seen nor heard of before, and thinking of new ideas is a breath of fresh air here.

 

Though, I'm curious if we'd need this if we removed carspawns and tweaked mission timers.

 

Still, If this was up for a vote, I'd vote for it.


 

WHAT DID YOU HONESTLY EXPECT THOUGH?

 

 

 


#4
mynd

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The existing spawn point pool probably isn't close to being diverse enough to make proper use of this system.  I'm sure they'd have to add a lot more potential spawn points and then create a system where one point is efficiently picked for an area instead of a whole cluster of redundant spawn points.  Also, when multiple people are in the process of respawning, showing points for the HVR players that SMGs can spawn in would be useful but need to be blocked.  Those SMG spawn points should only be visible if the HVR is respawning in the same phase.

 

Sounds like there could be a lot of work involved with this, but I think it would be very interesting.



#5
TheFreelancer

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Question what about explosive weapons these do don't have a specified effective range?

#6
mynd

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Question what about explosive weapons these do don't have a specified effective range?

 

Osmaw has a 145m effective range, Volcano 99m.  OPGL and ELs are a bit different.  ELs do have a rough range of 30-40m based on detonation and flight time.  OPGL is definitely further; a 100m or so range would probably be sufficient.

 

The point of this thread is more for passing a concept to RG than providing a 100% ready to deploy plan.  I do think my numbers are fair, though.



#7
Queen of Love

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good. +1



#8
Berenike

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no primary meta ~


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#9
SixxstagesofMajik

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no primary meta ~

Exactly would have no primary and equip one after spawn win-win


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#10
Berenike

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Exactly would have no primary and equip one after spawn win-win

 

Sure but u die with the primary out, and u get the aforementioned spawn penalty.

 

Na na, I'm thinking colby .45 main


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#11
SixxstagesofMajik

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Sure but u die with the primary out, and u get the aforementioned spawn penalty.

 

Na na, I'm thinking colby .45 main

FBW 


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#12
Berenike

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FBW 

 

sure but .45 has a more competitive TTK, it and the N-FA 9


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#13
Berenike

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maybe tha Fr0g too...and sas-pdw


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#14
Karma Charger

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This would produce more of a spawn killing problem. Its a great idea. But then the attacking team would have a disadvantage due to the defending team would be able to just get the oca and keep spawning close.

#15
mynd

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This would produce more of a spawn killing problem. Its a great idea. But then the attacking team would have a disadvantage due to the defending team would be able to just get the oca and keep spawning close.

 

OCA spawns would still be 105m out with my proposal, approximately no different than current since it begins looking for spawn points about that far out.

 

IF your scenario did present a valid concern, such a system should allow a base penalty to defending spawns.  Defending is generally significantly easier so it would be potentially reasonable to stack a penalty on top, maybe an addition 20m tacked on, or something to that effect.

 

The general basis for this proposal is to introduce a flexible system to help balance weapons in other meaningful ways while offering tools for the spawn system as well.


Edited by mynd, 07 December 2015 - 09:04 PM.


#16
ElectroStingz

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Interesting idea but how would it play out to that player using just an FBW?

At 75m he/she would have to play like Sam Fisher just to get close enough, after that the possibilities of SMG vs FBW, CSG vs FBW...

 

What about considering another possible scenario, everyone using the same weapons.

All being equal the spawn system is still broken?


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#17
mynd

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Everyone using the same weapon is irrelevant.  A big pro of the system is that no matter what weapon you use, you should be outside of your effective range at respawn.  No more HVRs respawning in LOS of objectives for instance.  I still  hold that the HVR itself is fine, but the fact that you can spawn in LOS of objectives or players that just killed you is what makes it broken.  This would be a solid means to address that, plus all the other benefits for weapon and spawn balancing.

 

People with Secondaries only would find spawns starting at 75m away yes.  I like the idea of there being a tactical advantage for a player to go Secondary only.


Edited by mynd, 12 December 2015 - 02:45 AM.


#18
Johnny Blackjack

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They definitely should fix dat spawn... this idea sounds better than the actual spawn system.
+1

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#19
PancakePower

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I apporove.


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#20
mynd

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Please feel free to rate my suggestion at the top as well :)  I suspect a well-rated suggestion has more chance of being taken seriously by RG.



#21
notHunky

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The existing spawn point pool probably isn't close to being diverse enough to make proper use of this system.  I'm sure they'd have to add a lot more potential spawn points and then create a system where one point is efficiently picked for an area instead of a whole cluster of redundant spawn points.  Also, when multiple people are in the process of respawning, showing points for the HVR players that SMGs can spawn in would be useful but need to be blocked.  Those SMG spawn points should only be visible if the HVR is respawning in the same phase.

 

Sounds like there could be a lot of work involved with this, but I think it would be very interesting.

 

The current spawn points and the spawn system as a whole needs a serious rework. In my opinion the problem seems to be twofold; There are not enough spawn points available for use in the maps, and the ones we have to choose from are mostly placed out in the open in the middle of nowhere. Hell if G1 would let me, I'd voluntarily fly around the entire map looking for better spawn positions to put down, because right now, almost all of the spawn points are in the middle of a road or sidewalk with very little to no cover. Why didn't they attempt to put some player spawn locations in or near some of the many interiors, structures or alleyways? I'm sure people playing Garry's Mod could place better spawn points than the ones we have currently available in APB.

 

What we need to do is have a spawning system which takes the following factors into account:

  • For non-movable mission objectives, we should have people test the mission and come up with spawn points custom tailored for those missions and objectives.
  • Available spawn points ideally should not have direct lines of sight to enemies or objectives within weapons range.
  • If the only available spawn point is going to be far away (anything over 125 meters probably), it should at least be within 30 to 40 meters of a vehicle spawn machine. (Not in the middle of a deserted road with no one in sight like I usually get.)
  • Spawns should have some sort of physical barrier or obstruction to conceal the spawn. For example, enemy reinforcements should be coming from out of buildings with interiors, near the cosmetic doorways of buildings without interiors which face away from the objective or enemy players, inside alleys, parking lots/garages, gas stations, or any other realistic kind of entrance/exit. People should not be magically appearing in the middle of the road like the mole people are invading.
  • Spawn points should NEVER be located beyond 200 meters of enemy players or objectives, unless you somehow died that far away from the objective. For example, If players dies 500 meters away from an objective, players should still spawn somewhere around 500 meters away to avoid exploits. Having said that, the worst spawn point I have ever gotten was 450 meters away from the main objective after dying within 150 meters of it.

I've been thinking of making a megathread to address many of the issues APB seems to suffer from purely from the perspective of gameplay mechanics and missions (no not weapons because weapon balance threads turn to crap and never go anywhere).


Edited by notHunky, 13 December 2015 - 08:30 AM.


#22
ElectroStingz

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Everyone using the same weapon is irrelevant.  A big pro of the system is that no matter what weapon you use, you should be outside of your effective range at respawn.  No more HVRs respawning in LOS of objectives for instance.  I still  hold that the HVR itself is fine, but the fact that you can spawn in LOS of objectives or players that just killed you is what makes it broken.  This would be a solid means to address that, plus all the other benefits for weapon and spawn balancing.

 

People with Secondaries only would find spawns starting at 75m away yes.  I like the idea of there being a tactical advantage for a player to go Secondary only.

 

But at 75m the pistol player is at LOS?

Further to this disadvantage they will also have to counter assault rifles and sniper rifles.

 

Instead of worrying about weapons and range vs LOS why not just fix the spawn distance from the objective?

 

EG, take objective and project a radius of 200m.

Perimeter = 1256m

Set spawn points at 157m intervals on that perimeter, = 8 points to choose from all being 200m away from the objective.

 

Reserve 4 = enf N, S, E ,W

Reserve 4 = crim NW, NE, SW, SE

 

Now if you take a 4 v 4 team they can all spawn at the same time using all 8 points and be over 150m away from each other.

Each team can only choose from 4 points, this means 4 flanking positions each.

All will be at least 200m away from the objective

All will be a minimum spawn distance of ~150m away from each other.


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#23
mynd

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But at 75m the pistol player is at LOS?

Further to this disadvantage they will also have to counter assault rifles and sniper rifles.

 

This is intended in my scenario.  If someone is using an RSA or ACT only, that is a big downside for any scenario outside of getting a potential LOS harass spawn.  As it were, I'm not saying spawning at 75m is their only option, just their closest.  I would prefer there be further back options for times a safer spawn would be required.



#24
dissentinq

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I feel like this would be hard to implement and not really achieve much except moving sniper users ridiculously far from the objectives which could reduce team play (say someone gets sidetracked on their way there) I think it would be good to just create more places to spawn at, move them closer to the objective, and increase the radius of enemies blocking spawn points. Also creating spawn protection of sorts (You cannot damage or be damaged for the first 10 seconds of being spawned in) I know "This player just respawned and you cannot damage them" But I believe they can damage you. And when have you ever seen this in reference to an enemy.

 

Edit: Another thing this would do is make it so you get to the end objective (The 2 sided one) faster making missions quicker, this could be bad or good depending on the way you look at it.


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