Jump to content

Photo

[Criticism] Rifle PvP Build


15 replies to this topic

#1
adsda

adsda

    Initiate

  • Members
  • 6 posts
  • Joined 12-May 15

I have made two builds for rifle pvp. One of them has heavy weapons, other doesn't. May you please criticize it and share your suggestions and thoughts with me?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Without H.W.:

http://www.helpforho...1010101B4010101

 

With H.W.:

http://www.helpforho...1010101B4010101

 

Edit: I forgot to mention, i will use the Z.I. custom rifle that grants +10 rifle and use the Marksman 3 stance which also grants +37 rifle. So Rifle requirements will be met. A bit overloaded but i don't think it will be big a problem.


Edited by adsda, 17 June 2015 - 03:51 PM.


#2
Walking Disaster

Walking Disaster

    Grunt

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 60 posts
  • Joined 07-August 14

Wow, new planner, haven't see before. Builds are bad.
Tip #1 Armor use 170
Tip #2 Dodge
Tip #3 First Aid 156
and fix other skills


Walking DisasterDisnuke, Nuclear DisasterLady Disaster, Skripka

5572855m.png

 


#3
LilRedhare

LilRedhare

    Elite

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2052 posts
  • Joined 02-December 13

Well...I'm far from the best at builds but I can point out a few things...

 

1) First aid needs to be at least 156 for Staunch Wound 6 (but I never play anything less than 186/SW 7 myself) and empathic heals can come down to 147, so you can at least cast restoration 5 (although 153/benevolence 7 is not a bad idea).

 

2) Armor use 164 is a waste of 7 AP, as it scales 157 <->170 for +12% to 13% resistance. You need to either raise it to 170 or drop it to 157 (Best to go with 170/183/196 every time).

 

3) No Dodge? you'll get crit-railed that way. Maybe 136, 143 or 147 to start with.

 

4) Power at 164 is a waste of 2 AP, as power scales to 162. Set power at 162...you really can get away with either 123 or 141 and just use higher precision. It would save a LOT of AP for other good sniper abilities (see #9).

 

5) Again, check your scaling...precision scales at 159/169/179...you can raise to 179 or drop to 169.

 

6) Rifle at 150...You can run marksman stance 3 for +37 to skill (187), then wear an Enforcer or Vista shirt for +3 (190). Just need a +5 or better rifle skill weapon and you hit 195. The Z.I. Custom is actually a very good weapon for PvE but sniper rifles are tough to use for PvP. If you insist on using it, back it up with a decent shotgun (The Elephant Gun, Street Sweeper or Coyle 2100 Modified are all good choices), until you can get your hands on some AP/DT weapons (The S.I.R. Shotgun is only +2 skill, so you'll have to spend AP to raise the bonus or raise your rifle build to 155 if you plan on using one).

 

7) You can drop enhancement to 156 and just run calibration 7...any more is overkill unless you're a nano-healer/support player.

 

8) I really am trying to help...but rending vibration 7 is really try-hard...it looks like you're relying on the DoT to do damage and not your aim. Sonic vib is good for stopping combat revives and keeping nano-healers busy, not making mass kills. You can drop this to 136 and be ok.

 

9) No escape artist? it looks like you want to be a sniper. A sniper needs escape artist, to camouflage themselves on the radar. And dash is a great ability to have for those quick getaways. You can really mess peeps up by running adrenaline boosters and using smoke spheres on top of dash!

 

The best thing you can do right now is take a look at The Complete Guide to Skills and Mutations by Reaps989 (that's Nysek) to see how skills and mutations scale, as well as their active and passive benefits. That will also give you ideas about what you can do with your build. Then by all means, keep asking for advice. Again, I'm still learning to put together builds, but Nysek, Inane and quite a few others are very good at it on the forums.


DLBanner1.jpg

Kit Southworth, Kitness Everdeen, Ophanim-Dying Light


#4
adsda

adsda

    Initiate

  • Members
  • 6 posts
  • Joined 12-May 15

Thank you both.

 

OK, i'm way toooooo much new to this game. And i'm not sure if i want to go sniper or stormtrooper. But if i build as stormtrooper, hunting down somebody with a sniper rifle is possible when distance is ok i think, or it doesn't?

 

I will edit the builds with your tips and reshare them soon.

 

 

Edit:

7) You can drop enhancement to 156 and just run calibration 7...any more is overkill unless you're a nano-healer/support player.

 

So what about benevolence? Is it better to leave at 8 or drop it to 7 too? Cause it will save some AP on charisma.

 

 

6) Rifle at 150...You can run marksman stance 3 for +37 to skill (187), then wear an Enforcer or Vista shirt for +3 (190). Just need a +5 or better rifle skill weapon and you hit 195. The Z.I. Custom is actually a very good weapon for PvE but sniper rifles are tough to use for PvP. If you insist on using it, back it up with a decent shotgun (The Elephant Gun, Street Sweeper or Coyle 2100 Modified are all good choices), until you can get your hands on some AP/DT weapons (The S.I.R. Shotgun is only +2 skill, so you'll have to spend AP to raise the bonus or raise your rifle build to 155 if you plan on using one).

 

I will have z.i. equipped everytime and change the second wep. from invertory when required. When we take z.i. into account i just can see i already overloaded rifle. 190+10 = 200. Am i doing maths wrong, or is there something i don't know yet?

 

 

 

Edit2:

 

So this is what i ended up with according to your suggestions. (Without h.w.)

 

http://www.helpforho...101010148010101

 

I fixed the unnecessary AP's on skills based on the guide @LilRedhare linked, added dodge, fixed first aid and adjusted other skills based on ap left.


Edited by adsda, 18 June 2015 - 12:24 PM.


#5
Walking Disaster

Walking Disaster

    Grunt

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 60 posts
  • Joined 07-August 14

But if i build as stormtrooper, hunting down somebody with a sniper rifle is possible when distance is ok i think, or it doesn't?

 I doubt if it's possible, just heal yourself


Walking DisasterDisnuke, Nuclear DisasterLady Disaster, Skripka

5572855m.png

 


#6
LilRedhare

LilRedhare

    Elite

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2052 posts
  • Joined 02-December 13

Thank you both.

 

OK, i'm way toooooo much new to this game. And i'm not sure if i want to go sniper or stormtrooper. But if i build as stormtrooper, hunting down somebody with a sniper rifle is possible when distance is ok i think, or it doesn't?

 

I will edit the builds with your tips and reshare them soon.

 

 

Edit:

 

So what about benevolence? Is it better to leave at 8 or drop it to 7 too? Cause it will save some AP on charisma.

 

 

 

I will have z.i. equipped everytime and change the second wep. from invertory when required. When we take z.i. into account i just can see i already overloaded rifle. 190+10 = 200. Am i doing maths wrong, or is there something i don't know yet?

 

 

 

Edit2:

 

So this is what i ended up with according to your suggestions. (Without h.w.)

 

http://www.helpforho...101010148010101

 

I fixed the unnecessary AP's on skills based on the guide @LilRedhare linked, added dodge, fixed first aid and adjusted other skills based on ap left.

1) Ok...as far as benevolence is concerned, it's the least important heal you have for PvP, so it's not the reason to spend AP. However, restoration is an important heal, as it's a HoT (heal over time) and the direct counter to DoTs (damage over time). The better the resto, the stronger DoT it can counter. 156 empa lets you cast resto 5, which is a solid HoT (21 HP for 5 seconds, or a total of 105, or 42 on a teammate for a total of 210). If you plan on using a lot of stamina for skill shots, though, it's not a bad idea to have stronger gamma heals (like bene 7 at 156) to compensate for when your stamina is drained. For an offensive build, I personally don't see the need for better than 147 unless, like me, you just like having strong gamma heals for cross-healing.

 

2) Staunch wound can be cast while moving/strafing and has a low cool-down time (just 6 seconds), so it's going to be your primary heal for self AND cross-healing. You'll want it to be as strong as possible and I see no reason a PvP toon should ever have less than 186 (256 HP and raises HP regen by 12 for one hour!). Just be sure to have the proper bandages in your inventory for every fight, as they are required in order to use SW. Knowing how much it heals is also your que for WHEN to heal (800 HP build-256 HP=544 HP...so right around 550 HP it's time to heal).

 

3) Yes, using the Z.I. will put you over the required 195 skill. But I was compensating for weapons that will not give you the same bonus, like the S.I.R. shotgun, which naturally only gives a +2 but can be augmented with AP. You'll be fine with the other choices I listed above, as they only require 180 rifle skill to use, but eventually you'll want an AP shotgun and the build adjustments I listed will leave you just short of being able to use it effectively. I was a bit off with the math, as you only need 153, not 155, to use the S.I.R. without AP augmentation towards skill. That's actually better, as you can use AP to augment HP total or regen, add electrical damage, etc...your math was just fine, I just didn't explain my reasoning very well.

 

As far as HW is concerned, I've never used it, so I can't address it properly. Shoot a PM to Nysek about your HW build and I'm sure he'll be happy to help with that one!


DLBanner1.jpg

Kit Southworth, Kitness Everdeen, Ophanim-Dying Light


#7
adsda

adsda

    Initiate

  • Members
  • 6 posts
  • Joined 12-May 15
Oh, my English started struggling again... So, at least i properly built skills and stats right? :)
 
I understand the importance of HoT now, but restoration just "eats up" gamma. I use it, and i will use it, but if i use it for every healing-break, i just end up with no gamma and it forces me to "spam" (yes, the best verb that describes situation was "spamming") stanch wound, so my stamina also goes down fastly and i can't actively use fatal skills like agnoizing wound, dent armor etc, this also removes the benefit of regeneration a bit since it's not stacked over.
 
I see now i need a bit more practice on healing, but it's an issue i need to solve later, let's turn back to topic.
 
I just thought that i know it wrong and asked ingame. And yes, i was thinking that the rifle grants +10 even if it's not in hands. I'm learning this game day by day. Now i understand why you say me to increase rifle. So is the build below ok now? (have 4 unspent AP left)

http://www.helpforho...101010148010101

Edited by adsda, 18 June 2015 - 03:55 PM.


#8
LilRedhare

LilRedhare

    Elite

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2052 posts
  • Joined 02-December 13

Heals are a topic I will gladly discuss wholeheartedly, as that's where I live! But let's look at your build first...

 

Much better, but...

 

1) I really think you can drop power down to 123. With that precision, you'll do plenty of damage...

 

2)...that will free up 39 AP...(with the 4 unused AP, that gives you 43 AP to play with)...

 

3) ...some of that AP can now raise dodge to a respectable level (22 AP brings dodge to 143....much better)...leaves 21 AP left...

 

4) ...now you can raise sonic up to 90 and use rending vibrations 2...3 AP left...

 

5)...Hell, toss it into empathic so you can use share life 8.

 

6) Consequently, you can also put AP towards staunch wound 7 (30 AP) and then put 10 into dodge and the remaining 3 into empathic again, to give yourself better heals and defense.

 

A lot of players nowadays ignore defense to do massive "damage" when 123 power really is enough, especially with the precision you have. You should be able to roll crits often enough to do respectable damage. You have to survive a fight to win it and the ability to self-heal (and cross-heal) is very important. Also, the more sustainable a build is, the more likely it can survive over time, and sustainability requires strong damage resistance, critical hit avoidance and the ability to heal damage received. We can talk about heals and resource management another time, but Nysek and quite a few others can probably do a more thorough job of it, and as far as resto is concerned, I think it's a matter of "greedy" heals...you're healing too often or forced into healing a lot because you're being crit-railed. Resto shouldn't take all your gamma like that unless you're spamming it.


DLBanner1.jpg

Kit Southworth, Kitness Everdeen, Ophanim-Dying Light


#9
Reaps989

Reaps989

    Supreme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7720 posts
  • Joined 18-May 12

Heals are a topic I will gladly discuss wholeheartedly, as that's where I live! But let's look at your build first...

 

Much better, but...

 

1) I really think you can drop power down to 123. With that precision, you'll do plenty of damage...

 

2)...that will free up 39 AP...(with the 4 unused AP, that gives you 43 AP to play with)...

 

3) ...some of that AP can now raise dodge to a respectable level (22 AP brings dodge to 143....much better)...leaves 21 AP left...

 

4) ...now you can raise sonic up to 90 and use rending vibrations 2...3 AP left...

 

5)...Hell, toss it into empathic so you can use share life 8.

 

6) Consequently, you can also put AP towards staunch wound 7 (30 AP) and then put 10 into dodge and the remaining 3 into empathic again, to give yourself better heals and defense.

 

A lot of players nowadays ignore defense to do massive "damage" when 123 power really is enough, especially with the precision you have. You should be able to roll crits often enough to do respectable damage. You have to survive a fight to win it and the ability to self-heal (and cross-heal) is very important. Also, the more sustainable a build is, the more likely it can survive over time, and sustainability requires strong damage resistance, critical hit avoidance and the ability to heal damage received. We can talk about heals and resource management another time, but Nysek and quite a few others can probably do a more thorough job of it, and as far as resto is concerned, I think it's a matter of "greedy" heals...you're healing too often or forced into healing a lot because you're being crit-railed. Resto shouldn't take all your gamma like that unless you're spamming it.

 

Since you asked me on steam to comment...

 

Power/Precision

  • Hardly much reason to go above 141 unless you have a decent amount of points to reach the next %, 5% armor penetration and 16% critical chance with 195 weapon skill isn't to bad.

Sonic

  • No reason to recommend sonic if they are only going to use it for the revive blocking, Heavy Vehpwnz is more efficient at this.
    • Granted, it is not group friendly and the snare is quite helpful under sonic...
  • Also going to 90 Sonic isn't really worthwhile... at all.

Dodge

  • Honestly it's not bad but it also isn't "good" to sink a ton into dodge, I personally will even go as low as 55 dodge simply because it's more efficient than going 183 AU compared to 170 AU with 55 dodge.

 

Empathic

  • Depends on the player honestly.

 

Now I will link a Heavy Vehpwnz build and one without it.

 

Heavy Vehpwnz

 

Sonic with EA

 

But honestly... I'd run lower dodge simply to get 150 EA.

 

HW with EA

 

Anyone who claims you "need" 170 AU is kinda silly, 1% lower resists won't "kill" you.


Edited by Reaps989, 18 June 2015 - 08:05 PM.

Nysek - Mednaught : The only character in FE made of Gammina™

Walls are for horses, I build gosh darning castles of logic to protect us from your constant rain of derp.

Posted Image

Special thanks to Thrillchase for ze banner.

#10
LilRedhare

LilRedhare

    Elite

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2052 posts
  • Joined 02-December 13

I did ask...wanted to make sure I was on point with my recommendations....damn...shoulda recommended thermal instead...


DLBanner1.jpg

Kit Southworth, Kitness Everdeen, Ophanim-Dying Light


#11
Reaps989

Reaps989

    Supreme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7720 posts
  • Joined 18-May 12

I did ask...wanted to make sure I was on point with my recommendations....damn...shoulda recommended thermal instead...

 

Thermal is also quite viable, highest single target DPS mutation wise... TK is the most efficient since it also boosts weapon damage :P


Nysek - Mednaught : The only character in FE made of Gammina™

Walls are for horses, I build gosh darning castles of logic to protect us from your constant rain of derp.

Posted Image

Special thanks to Thrillchase for ze banner.

#12
adsda

adsda

    Initiate

  • Members
  • 6 posts
  • Joined 12-May 15

Is Escape Artist really required? I mean, i won't do sniping whole time, i will go into combat sometimes. And finding a situation that allows me to have a sniper role until everybody on one side die can't be found easily, at least i can't find myself in that big battles.



#13
LilRedhare

LilRedhare

    Elite

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2052 posts
  • Joined 02-December 13

Is Escape Artist really required? I mean, i won't do sniping whole time, i will go into combat sometimes. And finding a situation that allows me to have a sniper role until everybody on one side die can't be found easily, at least i can't find myself in that big battles.

Oh no! Escape artist is not required, but it has some very cool abilities you may want to take a look at. Misdirection comes in VERY handy and save yourself is one of my favorite abilities (I may put EA back in my build just to have it again!). I already mentioned dash, but you can buff your speed through other means (I mentioned two of them above). But no, it's not a necessary feature at all, just very useful for some of what you want to do.


DLBanner1.jpg

Kit Southworth, Kitness Everdeen, Ophanim-Dying Light


#14
Reaps989

Reaps989

    Supreme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7720 posts
  • Joined 18-May 12

Oh no! Escape artist is not required, but it has some very cool abilities you may want to take a look at. Misdirection comes in VERY handy and save yourself is one of my favorite abilities (I may put EA back in my build just to have it again!). I already mentioned dash, but you can buff your speed through other means (I mentioned two of them above). But no, it's not a necessary feature at all, just very useful for some of what you want to do.


This, but if you don't go EA I'd recommend 186 First Aide.
Nysek - Mednaught : The only character in FE made of Gammina™

Walls are for horses, I build gosh darning castles of logic to protect us from your constant rain of derp.

Posted Image

Special thanks to Thrillchase for ze banner.

#15
adsda

adsda

    Initiate

  • Members
  • 6 posts
  • Joined 12-May 15

Now I will link a Heavy Vehpwnz build and one without it.

 

Heavy Vehpwnz

 

Sonic with EA

 

But honestly... I'd run lower dodge simply to get 150 EA.

 

HW with EA

 

Anyone who claims you "need" 170 AU is kinda silly, 1% lower resists won't "kill" you.

 

Does these builds require something to use? Alpha toggle, stance, armor?

Thank you.



#16
Reaps989

Reaps989

    Supreme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7720 posts
  • Joined 18-May 12

Does these builds require. Something to use? Alpha toggle, stance, armor?
Thank you.


Marksman stance from rifle, enfo or vista t-shirt, and then it can use a SIR shotgun as you'll reach 195 rifle.

Besides that it's all your choice.
Nysek - Mednaught : The only character in FE made of Gammina™

Walls are for horses, I build gosh darning castles of logic to protect us from your constant rain of derp.

Posted Image

Special thanks to Thrillchase for ze banner.



Reply to this topic



  

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users