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#1
Dr Hurst

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Suggestion:

Disable targeting players by clicking the team window or pressing hotkeys.

 

Implementation cost:

Low. At the very most one man-day for somebody familiar with the client's architecture.

 

Affected areas of gameplay:

Group combat.

 

Predicted positive effects:

It changes the meta a bit, which usually brings back some bittervets for at least a couple of days to check it out. It makes the comparison of targeted abilities for the sake of balancing a little easier, albeit abilities can still be applied easier to self. It reduces the already low incentive for multiboxing even further. It has a slight chance to guide fashion trends further towards individualization and away from uniformity.

 

Predicted neutral effects:

It might speed up fights a little. Should this become an issue, it could be offset by reducing overall damage output by 5 - 15% or whatever. For pvp combat this means damage from weapons and abilities, for pve combat this means NPC damage.

 

Predicted negative effects:

I'm not going to write down any, but i'm sure the bullet points will be made.


Edited by Dr Hurst, 20 May 2015 - 11:26 AM.


#2
LilRedhare

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Forgive me...I don't even see the point of doing this. Making it harder to cross-heal so fights will be faster? So basically, reward aimbotters and glass cannon builds by removing a skill element from the game? Watch all the aimbotters come back from S2/S3 and the number of nano users master filtration soar. Only one of those outcomes is good. Reducing overall damage to off-set this? Pointless. Why not simply raise the damage output of rifles, give heavy pistols a slight nerf (and I'm a heavy pistol user) and reduce reload times as well? I think that fix will increase the need for skill and possibly reduce combat times (although that is hardly an issue; well-practiced players working together will demolish a rag-tag team quickly). I don't mean to be overly critical; its just that this suggestion, which I believe you are making in good faith, won't make combat better, but reduce the need for skill. You'll see a rise in the number of glass cannon rifle builds and power banana melee, as the entire point of combat will become about doing massive damage before someone can click on a strafing teammate, while nano-users try to aim at the dying person in the team window with filtration, or worse, blow V.O. on a single target.


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#3
Dr Hurst

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TL;DR: Using aimbotters as an argument for game design is questionable. When evaluating the quality of a combat system try to think outside the furball. Being able to timely press two buttons does not convey more player skill than doing the same in addition to a precise click.

 

 

 

Hello Kit. Awww, no bullet points. Anyway: Making aimbotters move out of the lower sectors might increase new player retention, so would actually be a good thing. Basing the design of game mechanics on them is really a bad idea though. Not because of the legality of their doing, imprudently I mentioned multiboxers in my post, but because you do want to reward people that are actually able to aim properly. If the aim of your design was merely to disincentivize aimbotting, well, you maybe shouldn't have put shooter elements into your game in the first place.

About raising weapon damage to offset the ease of cross-healing: This was actually the development strategy back when I played this game. Every new battle ready item (equipment and consumables) that was introduced to the game raised the raw damage output or the resource regeneration rates of the players. This lead to a predominant meta known as the "furball" in open world group pvp. This meta pretty much removed range as a distinguishing factor of weapons and abilities. It also lead to combat being about "doing massive damage before someone can click on a teammate" since with regeneration rates being ridiculously high and the furball nature of the battlefield allowing only short timeframes for actually applying damage to a target it was downright impossible to break through heals if only a fraction of the enemy team was still awake.  

About glass cannon builds: This term is usually used to describe characters with a very limited potential to mitigate damage that is incoming on them, not for characters with little potential to counter damage on teammates. Using the first meaning those would actually be slightly less viable in the meta I envision than they were in the furball meta described in the last paragraph due to the need for characters to be able to sustain damage for a longer timespan before heals will come in. Using the latter meaning of the term I would nonetheless call it specializing the character for doing damage. A predominance of a certain specialization is of course a bad thing in terms of balancing. Yet this is also true for a predominance of characters specialized on countering damage to teammates and also, and this should not be forgotten, for a predominance of "middle of the road" characters.

About removing a skill element from the game: I think we have to differentiate between player skill (decision making, reaction time and motor skill) and character skills here. If you were talking about the sooner then that is partially covered in my first paragraph. And retaining a niche for players that made a good decision at one point  (when planning their character), but have poor player skills otherwise, I'd argue that this benefits the importance of player skill in a game [1]. If you meant the latter then I wouldn't say anything was removed from the game, it would just put certain character skills on a level with others. As mentioned earlier I might not be quite up to date on the state of the game, yet when comparing targeted abilities from my memory those from the skill line thermal control, which you usually didn't want to cast on teammates, already did less damage per second, per cast and per resource point invested than e.g. the ones from empathy. And the ones from empathy weren't reduced by resistance profiles. So empathy skills didn't really need the additional benefit of easier application.

 

 

 

 

[1]: As an example of such a player i would like to name... myself. In games that feature a k/d ratio or an Elo rating I usually end up with something like 55 - 60%, which I consider as evidence for my mediocrity as a player. (And my aim might be the worst of my player characteristics.) Nevertheless in Fallen Earth I was able to win a reasonable number of outnumbered battles against opponents of the same level and equipment tier. The most reasonable explanation for this are balancing issues inside the skill system. And given my poor aim I naturally suspect the skills that don't require any precision clicking.



#4
Reaps989

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Suggestion:

Disable targeting players by clicking the team window or pressing hotkeys.

 

Implementation cost:

Low. At the very most one man-day for somebody familiar with the client's architecture.

 

Affected areas of gameplay:

Group combat.

 

Predicted positive effects:

It changes the meta a bit, which usually brings back some bittervets for at least a couple of days to check it out. It makes the comparison of targeted abilities for the sake of balancing a little easier, albeit abilities can still be applied easier to self. It reduces the already low incentive for multiboxing even further. It has a slight chance to guide fashion trends further towards individualization and away from uniformity.

 

Predicted neutral effects:

It might speed up fights a little. Should this become an issue, it could be offset by reducing overall damage output by 5 - 15% or whatever. For pvp combat this means damage from weapons and abilities, for pve combat this means NPC damage.

 

Predicted negative effects:

I'm not going to write down any, but i'm sure the bullet points will be made.

 

Where is the valid reason to remove hotkeys (which only work in groups of 8, not 32) or clicking within the window? Because there's zero reason for it period.

 

TL;DR: Using aimbotters as an argument for game design is questionable. When evaluating the quality of a combat system try to think outside the furball. Being able to timely press two buttons does not convey more player skill than doing the same in addition to a precise click.

 

 

 

Hello Kit. Awww, no bullet points. Anyway: Making aimbotters move out of the lower sectors might increase new player retention, so would actually be a good thing. Basing the design of game mechanics on them is really a bad idea though. Not because of the legality of their doing, imprudently I mentioned multiboxers in my post, but because you do want to reward people that are actually able to aim properly. If the aim of your design was merely to disincentivize aimbotting, well, you maybe shouldn't have put shooter elements into your game in the first place.

About raising weapon damage to offset the ease of cross-healing: This was actually the development strategy back when I played this game. Every new battle ready item (equipment and consumables) that was introduced to the game raised the raw damage output or the resource regeneration rates of the players. This lead to a predominant meta known as the "furball" in open world group pvp. This meta pretty much removed range as a distinguishing factor of weapons and abilities. It also lead to combat being about "doing massive damage before someone can click on a teammate" since with regeneration rates being ridiculously high and the furball nature of the battlefield allowing only short timeframes for actually applying damage to a target it was downright impossible to break through heals if only a fraction of the enemy team was still awake.  

About glass cannon builds: This term is usually used to describe characters with a very limited potential to mitigate damage that is incoming on them, not for characters with little potential to counter damage on teammates. Using the first meaning those would actually be slightly less viable in the meta I envision than they were in the furball meta described in the last paragraph due to the need for characters to be able to sustain damage for a longer timespan before heals will come in. Using the latter meaning of the term I would nonetheless call it specializing the character for doing damage. A predominance of a certain specialization is of course a bad thing in terms of balancing. Yet this is also true for a predominance of characters specialized on countering damage to teammates and also, and this should not be forgotten, for a predominance of "middle of the road" characters.

About removing a skill element from the game: I think we have to differentiate between player skill (decision making, reaction time and motor skill) and character skills here. If you were talking about the sooner then that is partially covered in my first paragraph. And retaining a niche for players that made a good decision at one point  (when planning their character), but have poor player skills otherwise, I'd argue that this benefits the importance of player skill in a game [1]. If you meant the latter then I wouldn't say anything was removed from the game, it would just put certain character skills on a level with others. As mentioned earlier I might not be quite up to date on the state of the game, yet when comparing targeted abilities from my memory those from the skill line thermal control, which you usually didn't want to cast on teammates, already did less damage per second, per cast and per resource point invested than e.g. the ones from empathy. And the ones from empathy weren't reduced by resistance profiles. So empathy skills didn't really need the additional benefit of easier application.

 

 

 

 

[1]: As an example of such a player i would like to name... myself. In games that feature a k/d ratio or an Elo rating I usually end up with something like 55 - 60%, which I consider as evidence for my mediocrity as a player. (And my aim might be the worst of my player characteristics.) Nevertheless in Fallen Earth I was able to win a reasonable number of outnumbered battles against opponents of the same level and equipment tier. The most reasonable explanation for this are balancing issues inside the skill system. And given my poor aim I naturally suspect the skills that don't require any precision clicking.

 

You're point is based on multi-boxing, please remind me when you can win a fight simply by multi-boxing. Because you will not be able to run multiple clients effectively, just stop. This isn't a tab target game, nor can you simply park a client nearby to heal you... because you will die.

 

Even with ranged gameplay, the "furball" always exist as it provides mobile cover. But claiming it was "impossible" to down a target? Not even close, by any means. It will be harder, but hardly "impossible" unless you can't drop your target in the 6s+ cooldown (which is easily done) between their heals.

 

There's actually better ways to "fix" heals than remove hotkeys, which again only work in 8 man groups not in raid, or removing the ability to click names as well. If you can't think of them, you disapoint me sir.

 

Let me just throw a few out there...

  • Staunch Wounds could be personal only or vastly reduced in range. Let alone a possible cooldown increase.
    • You'd be surprised how many people can only heal "ok" with Staunch wounds, if you split damage on different targets their team will die off very quickly as they have their Staunch on cooldown for self.
  • Benevolence and Vital Osmosis cast time increased so you'd actually be required to stand still for longer than .4 seconds.
    • Requires more careful consideration, especially in 1v1 with Benevolence, before using either heal.

 

Instead of breaking something that isn't an issue, find a solution. Because if I can "rekt" most people on Nysek with no armor cuts and AP into HW and Nano... there's no excuse you cannot manage to properly focus a target with your team.

 

FFS last fight with "TNO Squad" 5 of the kills were literally someone jumping on a target with me.... you must be thinking of fighting me. Because otherwise you must be fighting insanely outnumbered.

 

Get Patho if it's that bad, stop being bad :P <3

 

Edit : Also the last combat update focuses so hard on increasing damage it's silly, if you can't manage to kill a target now then you're doing something wrong. I do less damage since the last patch yet still rock peeps 1v1.


Edited by Reaps989, 20 May 2015 - 08:49 PM.

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#5
LilRedhare

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TL;DR: Using aimbotters as an argument for game design is questionable. When evaluating the quality of a combat system try to think outside the furball. Being able to timely press two buttons does not convey more player skill than doing the same in addition to a precise click.

 

 

 

Hello Kit. Awww, no bullet points. Anyway: Making aimbotters move out of the lower sectors might increase new player retention, so would actually be a good thing. Basing the design of game mechanics on them is really a bad idea though. Not because of the legality of their doing, imprudently I mentioned multiboxers in my post, but because you do want to reward people that are actually able to aim properly. If the aim of your design was merely to disincentivize aimbotting, well, you maybe shouldn't have put shooter elements into your game in the first place.

About raising weapon damage to offset the ease of cross-healing: This was actually the development strategy back when I played this game. Every new battle ready item (equipment and consumables) that was introduced to the game raised the raw damage output or the resource regeneration rates of the players. This lead to a predominant meta known as the "furball" in open world group pvp. This meta pretty much removed range as a distinguishing factor of weapons and abilities. It also lead to combat being about "doing massive damage before someone can click on a teammate" since with regeneration rates being ridiculously high and the furball nature of the battlefield allowing only short timeframes for actually applying damage to a target it was downright impossible to break through heals if only a fraction of the enemy team was still awake.  

About glass cannon builds: This term is usually used to describe characters with a very limited potential to mitigate damage that is incoming on them, not for characters with little potential to counter damage on teammates. Using the first meaning those would actually be slightly less viable in the meta I envision than they were in the furball meta described in the last paragraph due to the need for characters to be able to sustain damage for a longer timespan before heals will come in. Using the latter meaning of the term I would nonetheless call it specializing the character for doing damage. A predominance of a certain specialization is of course a bad thing in terms of balancing. Yet this is also true for a predominance of characters specialized on countering damage to teammates and also, and this should not be forgotten, for a predominance of "middle of the road" characters.

About removing a skill element from the game: I think we have to differentiate between player skill (decision making, reaction time and motor skill) and character skills here. If you were talking about the sooner then that is partially covered in my first paragraph. And retaining a niche for players that made a good decision at one point  (when planning their character), but have poor player skills otherwise, I'd argue that this benefits the importance of player skill in a game [1]. If you meant the latter then I wouldn't say anything was removed from the game, it would just put certain character skills on a level with others. As mentioned earlier I might not be quite up to date on the state of the game, yet when comparing targeted abilities from my memory those from the skill line thermal control, which you usually didn't want to cast on teammates, already did less damage per second, per cast and per resource point invested than e.g. the ones from empathy. And the ones from empathy weren't reduced by resistance profiles. So empathy skills didn't really need the additional benefit of easier application.

 

 

 

 

[1]: As an example of such a player i would like to name... myself. In games that feature a k/d ratio or an Elo rating I usually end up with something like 55 - 60%, which I consider as evidence for my mediocrity as a player. (And my aim might be the worst of my player characteristics.) Nevertheless in Fallen Earth I was able to win a reasonable number of outnumbered battles against opponents of the same level and equipment tier. The most reasonable explanation for this are balancing issues inside the skill system. And given my poor aim I naturally suspect the skills that don't require any precision clicking.

TL DR: Bottom line...taking away the ability to heal by clicking the team window or hotkeys benefits who exactly? The answer? The players not already doing it. IOW, bad cross-healers who lose fights to good cross-healers. It's not too hard to figure out who that is. I'm sorry...I cannot, in good faith, endorse your idea. I'll try to work in some bullets for you in the future. 


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#6
Dr Hurst

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TL;DR: The opponents of the idea suggest that the game is in good health, which somewhat weakens the reasons for this change to be implemented. Thus, it can be discarded.

 

 

 

 

Hmm, no nested quotes.

 

 

Where is the valid reason to remove hotkeys (which only work in groups of 8, not 32) or clicking within the window? Because there's zero reason for it period.

 

I'm a bit puzzled by your emphasis on hotkeys here, nevertheless I'd like to point out that I did include them because I think a change to the teamwindow was pointless without adressing them as well. The reasons I see for implementing the change were listed as "predicted positive effects" in my first post. I listed them in descending order. As stated already I'm not quite up to date on the state of the game. It's been almsot a year since I last played.

Back then the game was in really bad health, so the first point would actually have been a good reason. If the game is flourishing at the moment this point is, of course, a lot weaker.

Changes did not roll in rapidly back then either, so I erroneously projected that I might have not missed out on too many of them. Considering balancing the developers seemed to struggle a bit, especially when it came to comparing abilities that used different methods of application (aimed, targeted, etc.). This was my reason for including the second point, I consider increasing the similarity of the method of application among targeted abilities to enhance their comparability.

Point three, for clarification multiboxing with included input broadcasting, was pretty weak to begin with, yet I included it for completeness' sake. I haven't seen it being a big thing in FE, yet the combat use cases are pretty much limited to using targeted skills on team members and using AoE effects, so albeit being really weak, the point is still valid.

Point four is actually a bit stronger, since individualization facilitates the need for apparel more strongly than uniformity does. And with apparel being one of reloaded games' major income source, i deemed the point worthy of mentioning. There are, of course, a few logical steps between my suggestion and this effect though, which is why I added it as my last point.

 

 

Even with ranged gameplay, the "furball" always exist as it provides mobile cover.

 

That would be two furballs then, which is a slightly different meta. Even then one of the reasons for doing it is that there is no benefit in being easily targetable, due to your teammates always being able to to target you.

 

 

But claiming it was "impossible" to down a target? Not even close, by any means. It will be harder, but hardly "impossible" unless you can't drop your target in the 6s+ cooldown (which is easily done) between their heals.

 

I based my claim on the last fights I had. Our group was able to sustain health on all members pretty effortlessly and without even significant shortages in resources for 30 minutes + in all cases until our heal caller got bored and started derping around.

The 6s cooldown did not apply to us, since we didn't all fire up our heals at the same time. Now of course one can always claim

the enemies being "bads" to be the reason for this, yet after multiple independent samples this claim becomes rather dubious.

 

There's actually better ways to "fix" heals than remove hotkeys, which again only work in 8 man groups not in raid, or removing the ability to click names as well. If you can't think of them, you disapoint me sir.

 

Let me just throw a few out there...

  • Staunch Wounds could be personal only or vastly reduced in range. Let alone a possible cooldown increase.
    • You'd be surprised how many people can only heal "ok" with Staunch wounds, if you split damage on different targets their team will die off very quickly as they have their Staunch on cooldown for self.
  • Benevolence and Vital Osmosis cast time increased so you'd actually be required to stand still for longer than .4 seconds.
    • Requires more careful consideration, especially in 1v1 with Benevolence, before using either heal.

 

Edit : Also the last combat update focuses so hard on increasing damage it's silly, if you can't manage to kill a target now then you're doing something wrong. I do less damage since the last patch yet still rock peeps 1v1.

 

Fixing heals was not a reason I listed for implementing the change. The reason was changing the meta. As stated above, purely numerical changes, like the ones you suggested as well, have been the chosen path for balancing things for quite some time now. My idea was to mix things up a little, yet again, as stated in the first paragraph, if the game is in a good condition, it proves the traditional way of doing things right.

 



#7
Dr Hurst

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TL DR: Bottom line...taking away the ability to heal by clicking the team window or hotkeys benefits who exactly? The answer? The players not already doing it. IOW, bad cross-healers who lose fights to good cross-healers. It's not too hard to figure out who that is. I'm sorry...I cannot, in good faith, endorse your idea. I'll try to work in some bullets for you in the future. 

 

This is a bandwagon argument, sorry. As an explanation this method of argumentation could have been used to claim "bad players" would have lost to "good players" after patch 2.5. Of course this still happened, yet it was pretty obvious at that point that fights were rather boring. Please try to drop the motivation to preserve vested rights and focus on whether or not you'd be able to enjoy fights in the envisioned meta.

 

 

PS: Bullet points have already been provided, thank you.



#8
Wildcat Strike

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Hey Hurst!

 

I don't believe it will bring back "bitter vets" as using the team box for heals/snares/revives, along with being non tab targets are and have been current draws to pvp.  Current pushes imo are: Lack of importance to factions and purpose to holding territory, lack of anti-cheat and failure to promptly remove rerolls, lack of variety in weapons/armor, and end game resources are not tied to zones.  Personally, I wouldn't play anymore, as I enjoy team fights that require a higher level of teamwork (and team heals with the box) and I feel this would detract from that.  

 

I place the reason of the games bad health on the failure to patch/change the above along with the horrible communication and maintaining the game itself: For example, 2015 (1 post) 2014 (5 posts), 2013 (13 posts).  Really, it would take maybe 30 mins a month to write a quick update.

 

http://fallenearth.g...0&max-results=1

 

As far as maintenance:  Look at the negative reviews on steam. Some comments are garbage, but you'll find ample responses on the installer crashing, people complaining about bugs, lag, server problems ect.  This is outside of our hands.  I'd love to put work into the game, work with people to recrunch numbers, rewards ect, but the foundation needs to be fixed, then work on the game :\

http://store.steampo...com/app/113420/

 

I do agree with you that some fights drag on, however, I don't believe the combat system is really to blame as this system is one of my favorites.  It is much better than the 1 or 3 sec beast might with GORE. Yet I wish that dual wield would be more viable.  Personally, I feel there is too much "ap" in DT weapons along with suits having too large of modifiers.  Offensive builds once and should have to manage resources.  This also increases worth in lines such as illumination (so powerful, not sure why people don't use it more) suppression , social, and patho as they either help to preserve or put pressure on another teams resources.  

 

I agree with Nysek's suggestion about sw distance



#9
LilRedhare

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Bad players have been losing to good players since the alpha launch; save the bandwagon card for a true bandwagon argument, as I see 3...THREE...people responding here. The fact remains...your argument is about making it harder to cross-heal, thus making it easier for zergs and/or bots to win a fight. If it were about targeting with powers such as thermal...you could simply make such powers attached to aim/weapon use. But you can't target ENEMIES from your team window...and there lies the fallacy in your argument. This entire thread is about taking away a SKILL (and proper healing IS a skill), so that UNSKILLED players can defeat more skilled ones. Wait...aren't you in TNO? Why am I not surprised by this thread...

 

P.S.-I save the bullets for the bandwagon arguments...


Edited by KittheRed, 22 May 2015 - 04:50 AM.

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#10
Calais

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There will always be a meta and a community will always become bitter about it. But changing basic fundamental mechanics of the game aren't the solution. In the current system stalemates are solely attributed to a lack of focus fire. If you PvP'd through 2.5 and 2.6 1s beast might patch then this current combat system is a god send.

 


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#11
Reaps989

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TL;DR: The opponents of the idea suggest that the game is in good health, which somewhat weakens the reasons for this change to be implemented. Thus, it can be discarded.

 

 

 

 

Hmm, no nested quotes.

 

 

 

I'm a bit puzzled by your emphasis on hotkeys here, nevertheless I'd like to point out that I did include them because I think a change to the teamwindow was pointless without adressing them as well. The reasons I see for implementing the change were listed as "predicted positive effects" in my first post. I listed them in descending order. As stated already I'm not quite up to date on the state of the game. It's been almsot a year since I last played.

Back then the game was in really bad health, so the first point would actually have been a good reason. If the game is flourishing at the moment this point is, of course, a lot weaker.

Changes did not roll in rapidly back then either, so I erroneously projected that I might have not missed out on too many of them. Considering balancing the developers seemed to struggle a bit, especially when it came to comparing abilities that used different methods of application (aimed, targeted, etc.). This was my reason for including the second point, I consider increasing the similarity of the method of application among targeted abilities to enhance their comparability.

Point three, for clarification multiboxing with included input broadcasting, was pretty weak to begin with, yet I included it for completeness' sake. I haven't seen it being a big thing in FE, yet the combat use cases are pretty much limited to using targeted skills on team members and using AoE effects, so albeit being really weak, the point is still valid.

Point four is actually a bit stronger, since individualization facilitates the need for apparel more strongly than uniformity does. And with apparel being one of reloaded games' major income source, i deemed the point worthy of mentioning. There are, of course, a few logical steps between my suggestion and this effect though, which is why I added it as my last point.

 

So you're commenting from being gone for an entire year when meditation was actually nerf and overall regeneration is actually lower now. Granted, PVP serums are cheaper and I agree regen needs a nerf across the board at least buffwise.

 

The game's population is actually because people are tired of fighting rerolls (hackers) and lack of updates. The PVP experience has been positive on all fronts, minus maybe Rifles which are considerably weaker since the last patch... but that's normal since the weapon choices are pretty crap when compared to pistol or melee.

 

Your suggestions would actually make it easier on aimbotters since it is actually the reason legit players can compete against it. Since hackers tend to have piss poor understanding of mechanics (especially when/who to heal) so you'd ultimately give them the patch they want.

 

Well in truth, the only "balanced" heal is filtration. Yet if Staunch's range was reduced, you'd see a huge drop in HPS, let alone if it was made personal only. Even then, equipped mutations are buggy with dual wield.

 

Multi-boxing is never a valid argument unless you can effectively play like this, but FE is not a game you can effectively do this.... you can mimic imput but it would not be viable in any regard. Even then, it would be very easy to catch and report (as it's bannable) before it became a huge issue.

 

The only non-individual part, especially if you're speaking of builds is the following.

 

  • Armor Use - It increases all resistances... kinda obvious since its better than armor.
  • First Aid - No reason not to have as a personal healing skill
  • Empathic - No reason not to have this, but far weaker than First Aid. Thus why you don't need more than 129.

The rest is all dependent on choice.

 

 

That would be two furballs then, which is a slightly different meta. Even then one of the reasons for doing it is that there is no benefit in being easily targetable, due to your teammates always being able to to target you.

 

 

Even with the ease of targeting someone, if cast time was increased it would mean you'd require faster reacting timing to actually save that target. Let alone if cooldowns were longer to further promote focusing targets down. But I can promise 75% of healing is Staunch Wound, as it is allowed to be used while mobile at 10m+ without being a huge cost on any resources.

 

Make Staunch Wounds 3m-5m range or make it personal, you'd easily remove most of the problem with group vs group sustain. But even then, making it so it takes longer to finish casting Benevolence would also greatly help this situation.

 

There would be less of a "large furball" if melee also didn't reach 7m, yet not a single part in your post covers this now does it? Fact is, there will continue to be a furball in both situations.

 

 

I based my claim on the last fights I had. Our group was able to sustain health on all members pretty effortlessly and without even significant shortages in resources for 30 minutes + in all cases until our heal caller got bored and started derping around.

The 6s cooldown did not apply to us, since we didn't all fire up our heals at the same time. Now of course one can always claim

the enemies being "bads" to be the reason for this, yet after multiple independent samples this claim becomes rather dubious.

 

 

Last time you played was during 2.6's combat update...

 

  • Far higher regeneration from illumination (Before it was 24 at Meditation 8 instead of the 17 now)
  • Vital Osmosis healed everyone (Now it won't heal the caster) while not requiring line of sight (Also fixed)
  • D&W was insanely powerful with very little counter with Sap Stamina being removed.
  • Primal Vigor could also be stacked with D&W with very little downside, as Suppression wasn't as common either.

Which you might not think PV was a big issue with D&W, but it was very apparent during 2.6 as you had barely any resources to worry about because that update was stupidly in favor of burst play.

 

And the 6s cooldown did apply to you and others, but I knew the groups you played with then as well... you might've thought "oh only I healed them" but in truth 5-6 others smashed their SW on that very same target.

 

 

 

Fixing heals was not a reason I listed for implementing the change. The reason was changing the meta. As stated above, purely numerical changes, like the ones you suggested as well, have been the chosen path for balancing things for quite some time now. My idea was to mix things up a little, yet again, as stated in the first paragraph, if the game is in a good condition, it proves the traditional way of doing things right.

 

 

Your idea was to make all heals aimed, which means all damage would also have to be aimed, and thus without a proper anti-cheat program the entire game would die off from hackers.

 

Not to mention FE is a heavily casual game.. you'd kill off a lot of the population as most can't even aim Filtration or Bend Metal.


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#12
Reaps989

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There will always be a meta and a community will always become bitter about it. But changing basic fundamental mechanics of the game aren't the solution. In the current system stalemates are solely attributed to a lack of focus fire. If you PvP'd through 2.5 and 2.6 1s beast might patch then this current combat system is a god send.

 

 

That and if he's seen recent fights we've had fighting 11 vs 24-32+... ya the only reason half of them take so long is because we're rusty xD

But it's not hard to get the ball rolling once people get in full swing and people drop like flies, no contest.


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#13
DakkaDakkaDakka

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Yeah don't change anything. Clearly everything works. I mean, look at how population is booming :P oh rite rite it's cus server broke, not cus it's boring to run around in all these skillful fights where no one drops for two hours, and if someone does drop, the rez train will get him back up so that the ballet can resume for another few hours. Oh joy. That's fun. Yessiree. Wouldn't trade it for anything.

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#14
LilRedhare

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Yeah don't change anything. Clearly everything works. I mean, look at how population is booming :P oh rite rite it's cus server broke, not cus it's boring to run around in all these skillful fights where no one drops for two hours, and if someone does drop, the rez train will get him back up so that the ballet can resume for another few hours. Oh joy. That's fun. Yessiree. Wouldn't trade it for anything.

1) Skillful fights? With whom? The only real fighting left for now is with TNpOker, a clan full of pretty much every reroll banned from the game. Those fights may as well be scripted: Fight starts, furball forms, TNO drop flags and toggle and if the other team is good enough, they simply out-heal the damage while breaking TNO's dreadful, practically non-existent heals. In the words of the Joker..."and it was soooo....BORING...".

 

2) New players are coming to the game, try PvP or go harvest, get toggled down and quit.

 

3) I haven't seen a combat rez NOT thrown by a team of my allies for about 3 months...At least TNO will fight away from cloners...but the zerging...Lord, the zerging...I used to LOVE watching Red Alert/Nightmare operate when Dy and Loco ran things. The combat rezzes were insane...no one stayed down.

 

4) The only saving grace I see from all this is that players who are willing to fight short find out that they really possess skill, able to handle and defeat larger numbers as well as cheaters.

 

The game needs so many changes, where to start? But I think the most important one needed is an anti-cheat program (or three). Level the playing field, especially for new PvPers, and you'll see a larger portion of new blood staying to enjoy the game.


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#15
Reaps989

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Yeah don't change anything. Clearly everything works. I mean, look at how population is booming :P oh rite rite it's cus server broke, not cus it's boring to run around in all these skillful fights where no one drops for two hours, and if someone does drop, the rez train will get him back up so that the ballet can resume for another few hours. Oh joy. That's fun. Yessiree. Wouldn't trade it for anything.

 

Coming from the guy who...

 

  • Had a his entire core of his clan banned for hacking.
  • Can't win an even fight to save his life.
  • Can't average 40% accuracy yet manages to get sudden 8+ headshot strings because of a "flat surface" multiple times in bloodsports only. Which you claim is a result of a flat surface, yet you've never once done it in LA parking lot.
  • Rarely, if any, PVP experience besides low level PVP (Which the new player complaints match the above)
  • The times that they have made an appearance in 55 PVP was with previously banned hackers.

 

Need I continue? Because any fight you've been in, larger than 2v2s or 4v4s (which you lose in less than 2 minutes) have hardly ever lasted long. And generally because of the fact you're always been an easy kill, you're deleted from the fight without even being called a target. And not to mention I have yet to see you, nor someone in your team, provide this "revive train" you speak of.

Since the last update the only real combat revives have been out of our side unless we've been ignoring said revives. And that's because we're fighting easily over twice our numbers on average.

 

But those fights might last 5-20 minutes, unless a flag is dropped or they zerg back. And this also greatly depends on people's ability to focus fire.


Edited by Reaps989, 22 May 2015 - 07:12 AM.

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#16
Mutarenebula

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I must be to old or something because multiboxing, glass canons go way over my head. Abut the heals, I usually PVE alone so I dont see why you need a target heal for that, self heals work fine.


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#17
DakkaDakkaDakka

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Coming from the guy who...

 

  • Had a his entire core of his clan banned for hacking.
  • Can't win an even fight to save his life.
  • Can't average 40% accuracy yet manages to get sudden 8+ headshot strings because of a "flat surface" multiple times in bloodsports only. Which you claim is a result of a flat surface, yet you've never once done it in LA parking lot.
  • Rarely, if any, PVP experience besides low level PVP (Which the new player complaints match the above)
  • The times that they have made an appearance in 55 PVP was with previously banned hackers.

 

Need I continue? Because any fight you've been in, larger than 2v2s or 4v4s (which you lose in less than 2 minutes) have hardly ever lasted long. And generally because of the fact you're always been an easy kill, you're deleted from the fight without even being called a target. And not to mention I have yet to see you, nor someone in your team, provide this "revive train" you speak of.

Since the last update the only real combat revives have been out of our side unless we've been ignoring said revives. And that's because we're fighting easily over twice our numbers on average.

 

But those fights might last 5-20 minutes, unless a flag is dropped or they zerg back. And this also greatly depends on people's ability to focus fire.


The term "logical fallacy" refers to the concept of making an error in terms of reasoning. It is crucial to understand logical fallacies so that they can be identified and avoided when attempting to persuade.

Your logical fallacy is... Ad Hominem.

Description of Ad Hominem

Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

    Person A makes claim X.
    Person B makes an attack on person A.
    Therefore A's claim is false.

The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).
Example of Ad Hominem

    Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."

An example of ad hominem you may understand would be following

 Damage incorporated had people in the clan who duped and hacked
 Heretic is a clan that has in the past closely associated itself with damage incorporated and therefore is guilty by association
 Everything you just posted is wrong and has no bearing because of it

---------------

For anyone truly curious why the current combat system isn't fun, I can tell you the story of how it all transpired. The real deal of how it all went down.

See, there was this clan, a chota clan, by the name of Condemned. And slowly and gradually, they've actually managed to be come effective in the combat system that was in place.

That's when a-heretic made the come back to game, and unfortunately for them they got roflstomped by the earlier mentioned Condemned clan.

So what did the heretic do? Did they improve their game? Change their builds? Adapt to the current combat system?

Noooooo... They changed the combat system to suit themselves xD

See, Condemned crutched on the TC buffs... And on their power heavy melee builds. A few hammer hits and down the heretic went.

So... TC buff? Gone. Power? Nerfed. Skillshots? Nerfed. Dodge? Buffed.

All so that heretic can prevail :P

Now, I know the mud slinging contest will probably begin after this post, but this is how it all went down, ze history of ze downfall of fe, as I have been there to observe it. Please attack me personally with all the irrelevant bulletpoints and many accusatory statements that have no bearing on anything stated. I won't be here to read it, or to reply to it, for I don't really care anymore, and haven't for a while.

You single handedly ruined the game. Good job you 'tard.




 


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#18
Dr Hurst

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Hmm, 3 out of 4 players posting their stance on this matter are content with the current combat system. So positive outcome 1, which was the main focus, is really moot at the moment, thus making the suggested idea unviable for the time being.

 

 


Your suggestions would actually make it easier on aimbotters since it is actually the reason legit players can compete against it. Since hackers tend to have piss poor understanding of mechanics (especially when/who to heal) so you'd ultimately give them the patch they want.

 

As I stated earlier, this line of argumentation still is kinda using two wrongs to make one right. Is the influx of aimbotters really that bad? I've always taken a critical stance towards hackusations, especially since they can hurt player rentention just as much as actual hacks. Assuming APB is reloaded's major source of income and is potentially subject to the aimbotting problem as well one would think FE could profit from the developers' experiences over there, despite APB not being based on the same engine.

 


Multi-boxing is never a valid argument unless you can effectively play like this, but FE is not a game you can effectively do this.... you can mimic imput but it would not be viable in any regard. Even then, it would be very easy to catch and report (as it's bannable) before it became a huge issue.

 

Well, same legal status as aimbotting. And if the people using it know what they're doing, I'd argue the "easy to catch" part. Anyway I agree it has never been a problem in FE. Just if you place a game on a line between stuff that takes camera and/or cursor position into consideration (aiming, targeting) and stuff that doesn't (hotkeys, clicking lists, etc.) this line correlates with the incentive to cheat by using aimbots versus doing so by using input broadcasting.

 

 


The only non-individual part, especially if you're speaking of builds is the following.

 

  • Armor Use - It increases all resistances... kinda obvious since its better than armor.
  • First Aid - No reason not to have as a personal healing skill
  • Empathic - No reason not to have this, but far weaker than First Aid. Thus why you don't need more than 129.

The rest is all dependent on choice.

 

 

I was talking about individualization fashion-wise, giving players an incentive to make themselves easier to target by sticking out from their peers. Nonetheless you know that these three are my pet peeves, together with willpower which was(is?) mandatory not to take. I wouldn't know what to do about armor use though, since you could nerf it to the ground and people'd still pick it, because "Hey, effortless reduction of all incoming damage". 

 

 


Last time you played was during 2.6's combat update...

 

  • Far higher regeneration from illumination (Before it was 24 at Meditation 8 instead of the 17 now)
  • Vital Osmosis healed everyone (Now it won't heal the caster) while not requiring line of sight (Also fixed)
  • D&W was insanely powerful with very little counter with Sap Stamina being removed.
  • Primal Vigor could also be stacked with D&W with very little downside, as Suppression wasn't as common either.

Which you might not think PV was a big issue with D&W, but it was very apparent during 2.6 as you had barely any resources to worry about because that update was stupidly in favor of burst play.

 

Hmm, those changes sound pretty good. I'm not completely sure about my time though, since 1s beast might, as Calais mentioned to be in 2.6, was already gone. I don't recall if the outpost was already released or not.

 

 


There would be less of a "large furball" if melee also didn't reach 7m, yet not a single part in your post covers this now does it? Fact is, there will continue to be a furball in both situations.

 

Yeah, that one is kinda messed up too. My guess is they started with 1m as documented in the weapon descriptions, realized it wasn't really viable with FEs netcode and then overshot. I'm pretty sure there were other plans for this at some point, maybe even giving melee weapons differing ranges (e.g. spears).

 

I must be to old or something because multiboxing, glass canons go way over my head. Abut the heals, I usually PVE alone so I dont see why you need a target heal for that, self heals work fine.

 

Tell me about it. I catch myself constantly abusing the pause-key in RTS games nowadays. -.- Anyway, solo pve isn't affected by this at all, it might just have had a minor impact on (large) group pve (progress towns, outpost? and certain world bosses).

 

 

 

...save the bandwagon card for a true bandwagon argument...

I don't consider pointing out logical fallacies as a "card" with limited uses. Everybody commits them from time to time, my own posts are surely not devoid of them either. Pointing them out constantly of course doesn't make a discussion more interesting, but it can help in keeping it "cleaner". Fallen Earth's different subforums for example feature a signifanct amount of ad hominem arguments, which stems from the pvp subforum, where people, not ideas, are often the subject of the discussion, being the most active.

The fact remains...your argument is about making it harder to cross-heal, thus making it easier for zergs and/or bots to win a fight.

I think the bots part has been covered sufficiently in this thread already. As for zergs, despite the fact that nobody likes them, numbers are meant to bolster strength. Winning outnumbered fights, if it happens, must happen for justified reasons.

 

But you can't target ENEMIES from your team window...

This is pretty much precisely positive outcome 2. I was pointing out that targeting as a means of applying an ability, still differs between different skills because of the incentive to apply their effect on a teammate.


Edited by Dr Hurst, 23 May 2015 - 07:30 AM.


#19
Dr Hurst

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For anyone truly curious why the current combat system isn't fun, I can tell you the story of how it all transpired.

 

Well, to be honest, "fun" is a somewhat subjective term. And since in this thread three people stated they liked the current combat system, this doesn't really support your premise.



#20
LilRedhare

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The term "logical fallacy" refers to the concept of making an error in terms of reasoning. It is crucial to understand logical fallacies so that they can be identified and avoided when attempting to persuade.

Your logical fallacy is... Ad Hominem.

Description of Ad Hominem

Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

    Person A makes claim X.
    Person B makes an attack on person A.
    Therefore A's claim is false.

The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).
Example of Ad Hominem

    Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."

An example of ad hominem you may understand would be following

 Damage incorporated had people in the clan who duped and hacked
 Heretic is a clan that has in the past closely associated itself with damage incorporated and therefore is guilty by association
 Everything you just posted is wrong and has no bearing because of it

---------------

For anyone truly curious why the current combat system isn't fun, I can tell you the story of how it all transpired. The real deal of how it all went down.

See, there was this clan, a chota clan, by the name of Condemned. And slowly and gradually, they've actually managed to be come effective in the combat system that was in place.

That's when a-heretic made the come back to game, and unfortunately for them they got roflstomped by the earlier mentioned Condemned clan.

So what did the heretic do? Did they improve their game? Change their builds? Adapt to the current combat system?

Noooooo... They changed the combat system to suit themselves xD

See, Condemned crutched on the TC buffs... And on their power heavy melee builds. A few hammer hits and down the heretic went.

So... TC buff? Gone. Power? Nerfed. Skillshots? Nerfed. Dodge? Buffed.

All so that heretic can prevail :P

Now, I know the mud slinging contest will probably begin after this post, but this is how it all went down, ze history of ze downfall of fe, as I have been there to observe it. Please attack me personally with all the irrelevant bulletpoints and many accusatory statements that have no bearing on anything stated. I won't be here to read it, or to reply to it, for I don't really care anymore, and haven't for a while.

You single handedly ruined the game. Good job you 'tard.




 

TL DR: If any muck raking occurs following your post, keep this in mind: You started it...

 

You can't cry foul when someone gets you for the mess you pulled. That's a classic case of dishing it out and being unable to take it. This isn't the first time we've been down this road with you, Dakka...

 

No one person is responsible for FE's current problems. Consequently, no one person can fix them. I may vehemently disagree with someone's recommendations or suggestions, but at the end of the day, I'm glad they are willing to share their ideas to help revive this wonderful game.

 

Blaming a single person, particularly one who has a reputation for helping others, doesn't lend any weight to your arguments at all. Let's stick to the facts: FE needs a lot of love in order to get the bulk of its population back. There are too many bugs to mention in this post and it needs an anti-cheat program badly. Until all of these things happen, blaming someone for the current combat patch (despite the fact that said person was against said patch, which was implemented despite that person's protest and the protest of quite a few others) is silly, as that responsibility rests with the development team alone. In conclusion, you can always petition to join the DeCon or HazMat team.


Edited by KittheRed, 23 May 2015 - 11:54 AM.

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#21
LilRedhare

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For anyone truly curious why the current combat system isn't fun, I can tell you the story of how it all transpired. The real deal of how it all went down.

See, there was this clan, a chota clan, by the name of Condemned. And slowly and gradually, they've actually managed to be come effective in the combat system that was in place.

That's when a-heretic made the come back to game, and unfortunately for them they got rofl stomped by the earlier mentioned Condemned clan.

So what did the heretic do? Did they improve their game? Change their builds? Adapt to the current combat system?

Noooooo... They changed the combat system to suit themselves xD

See, Condemned crutched on the TC buffs... And on their power heavy melee builds. A few hammer hits and down the heretic went.

So... TC buff? Gone. Power? Nerfed. Skillshots? Nerfed. Dodge? Buffed.

All so that heretic can prevail :P




 

You DO know I was in Condemned during this time, right?

 

As if Fly, Crispy, Syd or any of the other Condemned leaders were caught flat-footed when charge shots were nerfed. We weren't Red Alert, crutching charge shots, nor were we all melee. If I recall correctly, we HATED that combat system because it let RA run around with the same glass cannon rifle build while zerging us off (funny how that didn't stop us from beating them 12 v 30). We all had dodge in our builds to counter the ridiculous crits and I ran that CC social/nano build I hated because that extra #% gained by it was necessary to counter all that cheese. TC 4 builds weren't loved...they were a necessary evil (and one I didn't get to enjoy...social/nano, remember?) and when they weren't necessary, they were happily discarded. All you have to do see how that new patch was received was to look at what those clans did when it was implemented:

 

Red Alert: Banned or left the game...

Condemned: Came back from ESO to check it out, expanded the roster and let fly at Heretic again...

 

This part of your argument is incorrect. 


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#22
Reaps989

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@Hurst : Outpost and the last combat update came roughly at the same time, you played through 1s and 5s primal, not 15s tho I believe?

 

@DakkaDakka

 

  • Dodge was actually nerfed, the passive however was buffed.
  • Power was only truthfully nerfed via GTC/TC, it's still the msst effective manner of personal DPS increase.
    • However, you need to actually invest more into buffs to make it effective due to GTCs/TCs % removals, not that you can't banner up.
  • Charge Shots actually do more damage now, if you can land a headshot, and won't bug on dual wield allowing all weapons to benefit.
    • Just stop being bad and missing without toggling kid, at least you were smart enough to never toggle when I was around because you would've been gone with the rest of your previous clan. Oh wait I'm a "GM" and "Dev" tho ;D

 

Condemn actually was the only clan, other than ours, who used this current patch to the fullest. You saw every weapon, every mutation, and every skill being used during our teamfights.

 

Yes, Condemn complained about not being able to use TC/GTC to equip weapons to run power (Which, like how strong power got was not intended. Was stated during the open testing of the last combat patch) but they still dealt with it.

 

Keep blaming me, but I'm simply an informant. I don't make said changes, I simply open their eyes. If they feel it needs to be changed, they will.

 

Yet we still don't have the following...

 

  • AP Assault Rifle
  • Decent AP Battle Rifle stats
  • Reason to use AP sniper as a main weapon, period.
  • Sawn Off Shotguns on back slots, rather than legs.
  • Faster AP 1h melee weapons, so shards wouldn't be as stupidly strong.
  • AP SMG, we have a AP Sawn Off but no SMG?... rly?
  • Proper costs for previous weapons/armor seeing as they are leaps and bounds below AP weapons.
  • Actual hard choices when specing an AP weapon, rather than 80 HP/10% dmg with 120 AP to spare... oh my!?

But please do remind me how much "I" made this last patch, because I wouldn't release it in such a poor state.


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#23
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Bad players have been losing to good players since the alpha launch; save the bandwagon card for a true bandwagon argument, as I see 3...THREE...people responding here. The fact remains...your argument is about making it harder to cross-heal, thus making it easier for zergs and/or bots to win a fight. If it were about targeting with powers such as thermal...you could simply make such powers attached to aim/weapon use. But you can't target ENEMIES from your team window...and there lies the fallacy in your argument. This entire thread is about taking away a SKILL (and proper healing IS a skill), so that UNSKILLED players can defeat more skilled ones. Wait...aren't you in TNO? Why am I not surprised by this thread...

 

P.S.-I save the bullets for the bandwagon arguments...

:doh2: where did you get the idea that he's from tno? It's wonderful how you keep talking when you don't have anything important to say. tnopoker, if you know someone's a reroll in tno or botter just report him, you know how to do that. 

   And on topic, I can't imagine what it would be like without team window heals, it's all about cross heals now and it is absolutely stupid in a big fights but there are no big fights anymore, last big fight I was in it was dragging on for 20 or 30 minutes without anyone dying, you're getting hit jump into furball and you're at full health, after fights like that I don't really fell like doing any pvp for the week, and yes I don't think there were winners in that fight.


R.I.P  Banned for flagging up.


#24
Reaps989

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:doh2: where did you get the idea that he's from tno? It's wonderful how you keep talking when you don't have anything important to say. tnopoker, if you know someone's a reroll in tno or botter just report him, you know how to do that. 

   And on topic, I can't imagine what it would be like without team window heals, it's all about cross heals now and it is absolutely stupid in a big fights but there are no big fights anymore, last big fight I was in it was dragging on for 20 or 30 minutes without anyone dying, you're getting hit jump into furball and you're at full health, after fights like that I don't really fell like doing any pvp for the week, and yes I don't think there were winners in that fight.

 

Magora simply posted videos on his TNO toon which has other rerolls speaking in the backround... just stop. It's quite clear who all is in TNO.

 

  • Poker/Nightcore
  • Nightmare rerolls
  • Chloe & Reroll friends
  • Ynbots/Desperados/Carnage - Magora, Scyllia, and other tards

You lasted 20-30 minutes because you had twice to three times our numbers, yet you still lost. And for there to be winners in that fight, you'd have to put up a decent fight for once... you guys simply played like trash is why you lost. We didn't do anything special by any means and most of us are rusty because our only challenge now is your rerollers.

Remind us again how they were only banned for chips, because last I checked in our last teamfight 5 of your people died to my shotgun's damage alone... nobody else on them. Yet you have easily 4+ nano's to our 1?... How did you manage to lose?

Again, can easily be fixed by addressing current heals rather than something stupid like "Can't target team members via group window".

  • Increase cast time on Benevolence and Vital Osmosis
  • Vital Osmosis could easily be changed back to it's pre-2.6 state. Cone AoE, 20s cooldown, 128 maximum heal before spending willpower.
  • Staunch Wound range reduced to 3m to 5m, or simply made personal. And if that's not enough, increase cooldown.

 

If staunch wound was say 3m range, or personal, you remove more than 30% of outgoing heals which can reach 10m. Especially from the single most efficient heal, which is targeted, in the game. While Benevolence and Vital Osmosis have very little downside for having to stand still, as you've never been required to sit still for 1 second. Make it 2 seconds and it will become painfully obvious who can safely heal or not.

I could make this post much larger with actual figures, but most of said healing during "zerg fights" is Staunch Wound.

  • Allows movement.
  • Low cost for health received.
  • Can reach 10m.
  • Has the lowest cooldown for a heal you don't have to aim.

 

You don't see a bunch of you going for benevolence in teamfights, let alone Restoration (as frankly your main healer should be using restoration as you won't overwrite theirs anyways so you're wasting gamma), and VItal Osmosis has a 1 minute cooldown.

The only actual downside there is that you cannot attack... which gives you time to reload your weapon or simply pay attention to others who may also need a heal.


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#25
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Magora simply posted videos on his TNO toon which has other rerolls speaking in the backround... just stop. It's quite clear who all is in TNO.

 

  • Poker/Nightcore
  • Nightmare rerolls
  • Chloe & Reroll friends
  • Ynbots/Desperados/Carnage - Magora, Scyllia, and other tards

You lasted 20-30 minutes because you had twice to three times our numbers, yet you still lost. And for there to be winners in that fight, you'd have to put up a decent fight for once... you guys simply played like trash is why you lost. We didn't do anything special by any means and most of us are rusty because our only challenge now is your rerollers.

Remind us again how they were only banned for chips, because last I checked in our last teamfight 5 of your people died to my shotgun's damage alone... nobody else on them. Yet you have easily 4+ nano's to our 1?... How did you manage to lose?

Again, can easily be fixed by addressing current heals rather than something stupid like "Can't target team members via group window".

  • Increase cast time on Benevolence and Vital Osmosis
  • Vital Osmosis could easily be changed back to it's pre-2.6 state. Cone AoE, 20s cooldown, 128 maximum heal before spending willpower.
  • Staunch Wound range reduced to 3m to 5m, or simply made personal. And if that's not enough, increase cooldown.

 

If staunch wound was say 3m range, or personal, you remove more than 30% of outgoing heals which can reach 10m. Especially from the single most efficient heal, which is targeted, in the game. While Benevolence and Vital Osmosis have very little downside for having to stand still, as you've never been required to sit still for 1 second. Make it 2 seconds and it will become painfully obvious who can safely heal or not.

I could make this post much larger with actual figures, but most of said healing during "zerg fights" is Staunch Wound.

  • Allows movement.
  • Low cost for health received.
  • Can reach 10m.
  • Has the lowest cooldown for a heal you don't have to aim.

 

You don't see a bunch of you going for benevolence in teamfights, let alone Restoration (as frankly your main healer should be using restoration as you won't overwrite theirs anyways so you're wasting gamma), and VItal Osmosis has a 1 minute cooldown.

The only actual downside there is that you cannot attack... which gives you time to reload your weapon or simply pay attention to others who may also need a heal.

You have no idea who in TNO is, do you? just throwing all the possible accusations and see if something will stick. Scylla, you mean Sacnite? He's never even been in tno. So far I see that Luanne was magora, and he's out, I take it he's banned, so thank you, that's what you should do if someone's a botter just prove it and ban them.

  Next on the list is "SuperSally" I never even teamed up with him, have no idea who that guy is, but if you have some proof that he's a botter just report.

 

   The big fight I was talking about is the one that was long time ago in TC threeway, "heretics, travs adn enfo/lb" I didn't die in the end, it was dragging on for so long that we ran out of pvp zone, and everyone flagged up and the boredome fest continued

 

   4 nano healers? that's another fun fact, where did you get that? We had 0 nano healers, maybe it was fight without me, but last countless times we were fighting we didn't have any nano healers.

 

   Lol, I actually didn't know before now how resotration worked. 


R.I.P  Banned for flagging up.


#26
Reaps989

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You have no idea who in TNO is, do you? just throwing all the possible accusations and see if something will stick. Scylla, you mean Sacnite? He's never even been in tno. So far I see that Luanne was magora, and he's out, I take it he's banned, so thank you, that's what you should do if someone's a botter just prove it and ban them.
Next on the list is "SuperSally" I never even teamed up with him, have no idea who that guy is, but if you have some proof that he's a botter just report.

The big fight I was talking about is the one that was long time ago in TC threeway, "heretics, travs adn enfo/lb" I didn't die in the end, it was dragging on for so long that we ran out of pvp zone, and everyone flagged up and the boredome fest continued

4 nano healers? that's another fun fact, where did you get that? We had 0 nano healers, maybe it was fight without me, but last countless times we were fighting we didn't have any nano healers.

Lol, I actually didn't know before now how resotration worked.

Gynna is Andro
Mittens was Kaycee
Aroa is Dalph or however it's spelt
Sacnite has been in your team many times, just not invited to TNO.
Magora posted their own videos with very familiar voices in voice comms
where you have Magora you have Scyllia and Diamond.

And last fight "we" has was foothills where you almost outnumbered us 3 to 1 while placing flags. You still lost twice before I got sick of your flags and placed my own.

Not surprising if you didn't know, since somehow you continue to be oblivious of your surroundings.

Edited by Reaps989, 25 May 2015 - 10:02 AM.

Nysek - Mednaught : The only character in FE made of Gammina™

Walls are for horses, I build gosh darning castles of logic to protect us from your constant rain of derp.

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#27
LilRedhare

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:doh2: where did you get the idea that he's from tno? It's wonderful how you keep talking when you don't have anything important to say (1). tnopoker, if you know someone's a reroll in tno or botter just report him, you know how to do that (2)

   And on topic, I can't imagine what it would be like without team window heals, it's all about cross heals now (3) and it is absolutely stupid in a big fights but there are no big fights anymore, last big fight I was in it was dragging on for 20 or 30 minutes without anyone dying (4) , you're getting hit jump into furball and you're at full health, after fights like that I don't really fell like doing any pvp for the week, and yes I don't think there were winners in that fight.

1) Every GM, half the newbs and all of my allies disagree with you...

2) Oh, like a mofo...hack it up, and I'll get you, too...and I'm trademarking that TNpOker! I get payed whenever you use it...

3) Like you know what a cross-heal is...

4) You guys rely on aimbotters too much for dps and can't focus a target to save your life.

 

TNO is FULL of ban evading rerolls: Mittens, Gynna, Aroa, Magora and Chloe (who is now in Cosmic Trolls...Twarp [Risbon/Inner Rain], clean your closet), to name a few. If you honestly don't know this, I'd pull my head out if I were you...

 

Andrommeda=Gynna

Kaycee=Mittens

Delphine=Aroa

Luanna=Magora (recently banned...prolly on Horse Butcher now)

Kaurava=Dimond

Sacnite=Chloe

 

Now you know...if you continue to team with them, it's because you knowingly want to derive benefit from their hacking.


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