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PvP and the current FE Population


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#1
LilRedhare

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Let me preface this thread by saying I'm a new elite endgame PvPer. I have only been playing for 10 months and was brought into Crouching Tiger as a prospect, in it's waning days. I am currently with Condemned, learning to stand on my own as a PvPer. I do not consider myself an expert on anything FE related. I have a question, however, for anyone who would venture an answer. I love PvP on FE. I'm hooked. I can't go back to PvE/questing, because it's so boring to me now. I'm ruined for any other game that don't have good PvP. The problem nowadays is that so many experienced players have left the game or aren't getting the respect they deserve. Therefore we lose all that game knowledge. Newer players aren't taping into that already established game knowledge base. So they try to reinvent the wheel, come to endgame PvP, get stomped....and leave, perhaps to easier pickings among the newer PvP population. My question is this: How do we bring up the quality of PvP in FE? What has to happen? More respect between opponents? Increased game knowledge? There are so few endgame PvP clans and a few have gone dormant since I came up from PvE/Questing. What can we do, as fans of the game, to make it better?

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#2
Hyunn

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I don't think population will go back up with the amount of crashes we have on a daily basis..

#3
Chrispy Cream

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Let me preface this thread by saying I'm a new elite endgame PvPer. I have only been playing for 10 months and was brought into Crouching Tiger as a prospect, in it's waning days. I am currently with Condemned, learning to stand on my own as a PvPer. I do not consider myself an expert on anything FE related. I have a question, however, for anyone who would venture an answer. I love PvP on FE. I'm hooked. I can't go back to PvE/questing, because it's so boring to me now. I'm ruined for any other game that don't have good PvP. The problem nowadays is that so many experienced players have left the game or aren't getting the respect they deserve. Therefore we lose all that game knowledge. Newer players aren't taping into that already established game knowledge base. So they try to reinvent the wheel, come to endgame PvP, get stomped....and leave, perhaps to easier pickings among the newer PvP population. My question is this: How do we bring up the quality of PvP in FE? What has to happen? More respect between opponents? Increased game knowledge? There are so few endgame PvP clans and a few have gone dormant since I came up from PvE/Questing. What can we do, as fans of the game, to make it better?

The current state of pvp is currently dead. The fact that no one wants to go to tc because of multiple reasons whether it is the long rides from/to fights, the infamous tc4/gtc build based whether it is weapon skill or the power/precision, or when you get to the fight it is just a cluster of furballs and ressing and turreting on ramps. Can't forget about the lovely flag tag :).

The knowledge the old players have had with PvP are a bit changed due to the multiple combat system updates. They do know what they are doing in combat although. one example was when heretic came back we had a huge fight with heretic and friends vsing our trav tech (one-four depending who showed up) vista (some CT) and chota... we had the experience to play with a old saint member gapetta and he through a lot of good advice out and was fun to have in vent :D...

Now for the new players the only way they can come up in the current state of the game is being interested in the game.. learning the current system the basics and the grind for new gear. Learning all of the basics as in crosshealing, self healing, setting hotkeys easier, dancing, and basic knowledge/build advice can be a bit much to grasp.

The trash talking with current pvpers will never go away.. yes we can be a tad bit more respectful but nothing like region raging :D

This being said on top of the disconnects in fights and the exploits that have been in the game for a while (not going to say which one is the most irritating) Condemned is currently looking for a new game to play that can give us our pvp fix... We have a couple of games in mind that are not released yet but we will see :)
We won't actually give up on FE just yet.. we will most likely always come back to see the new content/fixes but for now we are hanging on to a piece of string :P

Edited by Chrispy Cream, 21 January 2014 - 05:16 PM.


#4
KhoRzz

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Please don't say you're quitting. There wouldn't be anyone left to fight...

#5
Maylinh

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Now for the new players the only way they can come up in the current state of the game is being interested in the game.. learning the current system the basics and the grind for new gear. Learning all of the basics as in crosshealing, self healing, setting hotkeys easier, dancing, and basic knowledge/build advice can be a bit much to grasp.



This would go easier if people would queue up for CTF or Deathmatch instead of PvE Assault.

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#6
Hyunn

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This would go easier if people would queue up for CTF or Deathmatch instead of PvE Assault.

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#7
Chrispy Cream

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Please don't say you're quitting. There wouldn't be anyone left to fight...

We are not quitting i can't speak for all of the clan but the majority of us have reconsidered new game choices when they come out. We also have been trying to find other games to have fun in.

Skyrim (ESO).
The Repop.
Fallout 4 online <-- hopefully this will be good.
and a couple of other games :)

#8
Calais

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Faction unification, where a faction works together as a whole for greater good and the establishment of a specific area as belonging to that faction. Through this, new players can be aware of where their faction operates in PvP and they can join in on defending that specific area and get a feel of PvP. Remember, most new PvPers are not from a PvP clan, most of which join a faction they hear is good or they like the lore of then they venture into PvP alone; only to get utterly slaughtered. Without a common goal for a faction, those who are not in the core of a faction and don't have any affiliations with the core are left in the dark and generally just venture into PvP during the quiet hours only to cap a few points and harvest a bit.

Perhaps it's time we have faction meetings, preferable in S2 somewhere so any new pvpers for a faction can join in as well. So any vets, currently experienced pvpers or upcoming pvpers can discuss, get to know one another and perhaps work on a common goal for the faction.

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#9
Ezra

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It seems to me that the clans of FE who are looking ahead would do well to organize together, and begin actually organizing regular and reliable player run events..


If 10 clans entered into a alliance of some kind, not to work together in pvp or be buddies or anything, but just to create a framework for all players to use and enjoy...this game would come alive...

instead it just seems like all the people who could do something stand around complaining about how theres nothing to do...


shooting people you run into who have /pvp on is ok i guess. but what if you knew 10 clans would be descending into a war over embry every friday.. or if one clan wanted a 5v1 clan battle to defend picus...etc...this would give all pvper somthing to do and work towards, and newbs and lowbs and pve'ers somthing to gather to watch and bet on...all kinds of stuff can develop out of this too...

anyway, it just requires to seperate ourselves from our toons a bit...ive been trying this idea with my lowb clan, but its not easy gettinng bunch of lowbs to agree to get shot the random 55's who happen to come by...

we just need to decide its worth it and possible....i think it would at least beat the dozens of "nothin to do, the game is empty" threads that pop up constantly.

#10
LilRedhare

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Good replies, everyone...keep them coming...As one of the aforementioned new PvPers, I appealed to some veterans for advice as a lowb and was fortunate enough to get the attention of Alicia Kim and Shiu. This was to start an awesome relationship that blossomed into an opportunity to join Crouching Tiger well before I felt ready for any such thing. But the immersion in the PvP world coupled with the training from Shiu ( and so many others...to name them all would take another thread entirely...and I'm grateful to them all!) has helped give me the confidence to put up with the frustrations of the learning process. I would love to see more PvP clans create lowb clans, run by clan officers, strictly for the development of A team players at endgame. But the problem there is one of trust and character. Can you trust these new players? That is a risk, but I think a worthy one. Further comments?

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#11
Gapetta

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If people aren't willing to learn this new system...they aren't going to be willing to learn any system in FE.

Some people have held pvp training in the past but there have been lack luster turn outs and it just turns into experienced players just dueling each other. Dealing with the insanely high skill shot burst damage might be a start in the right direction though.



#12
Gapetta

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Good replies, everyone...keep them coming...As one of the aforementioned new PvPers, I appealed to some veterans for advice as a lowb and was fortunate enough to get the attention of Alicia Kim and Shiu. This was to start an awesome relationship that blossomed into an opportunity to join Crouching Tiger well before I felt ready for any such thing. But the immersion in the PvP world coupled with the training from Shiu ( and so many others...to name them all would take another thread entirely...and I'm grateful to them all!) has helped give me the confidence to put up with the frustrations of the learning process. I would love to see more PvP clans create lowb clans, run by clan officers, strictly for the development of A team players at endgame. But the problem there is one of trust and character. Can you trust these new players? That is a risk, but I think a worthy one. Further comments?


A clan called TEMPS used to be run by experienced end game players...it used to serve as a good "drafting ground" for end game clans.



#13
LilRedhare

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Gapetta..do you know who ran that clan? Are they still around?

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#14
flyzardia

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There will always be an fe population. It won't totally die out before the sunset of the server but with all the issues as of late it wouldn't surprise me if the population just called it quits and came back in a few weeks. I can totally see fe still being online and people rambling on about the same issues a year from now, that's just the way things tend to go here.

The server was 'attacked' three times today during fights I was involved in. In a game where you get MAYBE 1-2 good fights every few nights this is a huge deal. Not to mention it would be foolish to do anything other than pvp that requires grinding time or money investment so actual demand for anything on the marketplace is tanked atm unless someone REALLY wants to buy a russian trenchcoat to look cool for their 20 minutes of gameplay until the next server downtime.

In regards to the newer players, unfortunately fe lacks organized pvp clans for us to fight. Newer players will always attempt to go out solo, get zerged and get mads. It's up to them to figure out who's willing to have them in team but at this point the main pvp clans don't even want more people because it just means that fights will be more uneven with the zerg of the hour. What we need is newer players to find each other and start up new clans and for vets to be open to helping them along.

Typically what I see is people log on, can't find who to team with or refuse to team with someone then log off due to inactivity. Perhaps at this point the pvp playerbase is so small and tight that we may as well just create a 24/7 pvp raid and do pick up games so as to keep the fights going.
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#15
Gapetta

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Gapetta..do you know who ran that clan? Are they still around?


Yes I do...and no, they are not around...I saw him a month back online for a few minutes but that was it.



#16
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Fallout 4 *drools*

Look past the /region pvp, it's mostly for bored lols. Until then I hope the servers get a break soon.

Besides mechanics getting improved, if most teams allow for team rebalancing after fights that would be a good measure to prolong pvp. Losers can add team members or winners drop after a couple of fights. Then peeps won't just drop pvp cause teams are lopsided.
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#17
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Waiting on Repopulation and if we have more things to test... with the DDoS hits recently I have no "want" to log in.
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#18
Ezra

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this is all very sad...

i hope i dont get banned just for saying this, but has it been considered (and by this i mean, OF COURSE) that FE is being hit by another game... that we are being milked out of FE at a moment when a virtual sequel is on the horizon?

kinda hard to address the constant interuptions without considering logical sources...yes, anarchist techs are real and like to screw around, but money is a still pretty big motivator in the world, yeah?

#19
Reaps989

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this is all very sad...

i hope i dont get banned just for saying this, but has it been considered (and by this i mean, OF COURSE) that FE is being hit by another game... that we are being milked out of FE at a moment when a virtual sequel is on the horizon?

kinda hard to address the constant interuptions without considering logical sources...yes, anarchist techs are real and like to screw around, but money is a still pretty big motivator in the world, yeah?


Very unlikely, even if it was G1 could easily take legal action for potential profit loss.

Edited by Reaps989, 22 January 2014 - 10:34 AM.

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#20
LilRedhare

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Again, great comments and some eye-opening thoughts.....is it possible that the FE population is being weened off of the game, for a possible pay-to-play sequel? It seems like a lot of trouble for something that good marketing can accomplish, but who knows? FE has been FTP, but the perks of a commander's account even got me to come out of the pocket...I like the thought of the Fallout 4 MMORPG, and am holding out for it. But the recent DDOS attacks have me looking for immediate alternatives as well, including console games, and well, real-life getting out of the house with my sisters. I have yet to encounter a game that has the attraction that FE has for me. I was never a PvPer before FE. I tried on WoW, but only did it to earn enough points to get items I wanted. Then it was back to PvE, which joyfully took up 95% of my game time. WoW PvP was so....detached. No aiming, no strafing, just hit your combos for max dps unless you were a healer, and if you were a tank, keep aggro. Simple and, well.....boring. I really can't see myself spending $30 every two months just to sit in the newb area and look cool in my transmorged all-black hunting armor and flying mount......because nothing else about the game appeals to me any more. Maybe a concerted effort by fans of FE....a mass appeal to improve and protect the game...a transfusion of fresh ideas....repopulation...and a meeting of some of the minds here to put all of this into effect. I am honored to have players like Gapetta and Clammier, who I consider icons of FE, responding to my posts, and the support of my clan has been amazing. But before Condemned finds another game to play, out of sheer frustration, is there any way to save this one?

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#21
Ezra

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The Repop

skip to 1:20 and listen....

Edited by Ezra, 22 January 2014 - 12:52 PM.


#22
Reaps989

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The Repop

skip to 1:20 and listen....


Lots of games use the "cloning" system :P
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#23
Ezra

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Lots of games use the "cloning" system :P



youre absolutely right...theses games are nothing alike :lol:

#24
Reaps989

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youre absolutely right...theses games are nothing alike :lol:


Only reason I stated that is because alot of games recently have followed that "backround".

I'd say this has more of an Anarchy Online kinda feel... but more to it >_>
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#25
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We are not quitting i can't speak for all of the clan but the majority of us have reconsidered new game choices when they come out. We also have been trying to find other games to have fun in.

Skyrim (ESO).
The Repop.
Fallout 4 online <-- hopefully this will be good.
and a couple of other games :)

Hmmm last I checked fallout online was cancelled any info on that?


@OP

A lot of vets/older players quit because FE got boring with 1.9 and greatly simplified. And beyond that has been a downward slide...gore...2.6...etc.

As for getting good pvpers...people will have to tough it out and learn the hard way. Coddling is nice and cute and all but I don't think I've ever seen it work. TEMPS was about the closest but that died years ago and was the center of it's own drama haha. Currently Nyseks guide and info is the best you will get...and that was far better than anything before that. After that it's just teaching basics, if they don't get it then they prob won't ever be top tier.

And as for the whole communication thing...that works but unless you are willing to do it constantly aka people will be sitting out then it's pointless. And with how the current community is, they only want trimming when it suits them and would rather push people off the map with numbers...pat themselves on the back and then queue up for assault. So unless the hilarious drama fueled circle that is FE life sorts itself out I don't see this happening anytime soon.



@Clam

Faction meetings would be neat, but because no real faction stuff has been added it wouldn't do a whole lot most likely.

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#26
AgentNoir

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this is all very sad...

i hope i dont get banned just for saying this, but has it been considered (and by this i mean, OF COURSE) that FE is being hit by another game... that we are being milked out of FE at a moment when a virtual sequel is on the horizon?

kinda hard to address the constant interuptions without considering logical sources...yes, anarchist techs are real and like to screw around, but money is a still pretty big motivator in the world, yeah?

I'm going to say this now 0%. If they were doing that they are prob wasting more money and prob means they have terrible ability to read a community/playerbase or a market and will probably go under relatively quickly.


Again, great comments and some eye-opening thoughts.....is it possible that the FE population is being weened off of the game, for a possible pay-to-play sequel? It seems like a lot of trouble for something that good marketing can accomplish, but who knows? FE has been FTP, but the perks of a commander's account even got me to come out of the pocket...I like the thought of the Fallout 4 MMORPG, and am holding out for it. But the recent DDOS attacks have me looking for immediate alternatives as well, including console games, and well, real-life getting out of the house with my sisters. I have yet to encounter a game that has the attraction that FE has for me. I was never a PvPer before FE. I tried on WoW, but only did it to earn enough points to get items I wanted. Then it was back to PvE, which joyfully took up 95% of my game time. WoW PvP was so....detached. No aiming, no strafing, just hit your combos for max dps unless you were a healer, and if you were a tank, keep aggro. Simple and, well.....boring. I really can't see myself spending $30 every two months just to sit in the newb area and look cool in my transmorged all-black hunting armor and flying mount......because nothing else about the game appeals to me any more. Maybe a concerted effort by fans of FE....a mass appeal to improve and protect the game...a transfusion of fresh ideas....repopulation...and a meeting of some of the minds here to put all of this into effect. I am honored to have players like Gapetta and Clammier, who I consider icons of FE, responding to my posts, and the support of my clan has been amazing. But before Condemned finds another game to play, out of sheer frustration, is there any way to save this one?

FE switched from p2p to f2p...they aren't about to go back or be weened back to it especially as most p2p play don't play anymore lol.

First you would have to fix the ddos...this isn't just an FE issue but an apb issue as well. If anything FE is just suffering side affects.

Second would be to fix false information for new players...this has always hurt FE. Website, double click skill desriptions and bad/vague skill descriptions.

Third would be to fix numerous common bugs and issues...this is the kind of thing that eats at people.

Fourth would be to standardize GMs on how things were and move back to how they were 2/3 years ago albeit this may or may not be as much an issue, because there has always been at least 1 derpy gm.

Five...a fixing and changing of pvp zones/keeps to something that matters...lots of good groundwork but no real good setup. Blockade is the best currently and that's not saying much. Foothills is good but keeps are lame as gosh darn. TC is ok but because it's based around a broken TC buff system and harvesting...and harvesting has all but died this has lost a lot of use and is mainly to achieve broken levels of power.

Six...another combat patch that isn't horrible and actually addresses issues rather than creates. This is just my opinion but 1.9 never accomplish what it was supposed to (reduce redundancy...it did greatly simplify it though) and 2.6 made this worse by adding debuffs like sabo, another skillshot, buffing power and adding ms.


Just my opinion on what would help FE but sadly it may be too little too late...although this has been said lots before so how true it is is questionable...still not as nearly dead as it has been at times but far from when it was relatively active.

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#27
Zerero

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op is in Texas, I live in Texas. 1v1 me, heretic vs condemned irl

I'm waiting for the Repop and WH40k Eternal Crusade. This game has had some really good memories, tho.

Edited by Zerero, 23 January 2014 - 08:20 AM.

Butch Traveler (lvl 55 Tech) Boneever (lvl 55 Vista) Chief Cuckoo (lvl 55 Traveler)
Rowdy Ronny (lvl 55 Enforcer) Chrispy Cream (lvl 55 Chota) some red alert (lvl 55 Lightbearer)

#28
LilRedhare

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op is in Texas, I live in Texas. 1v1 me, heretic vs condemned irl :piratesword: Bonever, you can't handle me irw...I am a Texas girl, through and through...which means Daddy had me using his shotgun and bow by age 9.....Besides...I'm taller than you..........I, too am interested in Repop (thanks to Ezra for the vid!), and the (cancelle ?) Fallout 4 MMO. Still looking for an immediate fix, as for some reason, I cannot run Panzar on my lappy...oh well....Haven't given up entirely on FE, just thinking of putting it down for a few weeks while they get their act together....

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#29
AgentNoir

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op is in Texas, I live in Texas. 1v1 me, heretic vs condemned irl :piratesword: Bonever, you can't handle me irw...I am a Texas girl, through and through...which means Daddy had me using his shotgun and bow by age 9.....Besides...I'm taller than you..........I, too am interested in Repop (thanks to Ezra for the vid!), and the (cancelle ?) Fallout 4 MMO. Still looking for an immediate fix, as for some reason, I cannot run Panzar on my lappy...oh well....Haven't given up entirely on FE, just thinking of putting it down for a few weeks while they get their act together....

What is panzar? lol

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Nysak


#30
LilRedhare

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OH! Noir, Panzar is a fantasy PvP MMO, similar to WoW, but with an interactive combat system the requires active aiming and blocking. I really like the potential of such a system, but haven't been able to get it to run on my poor, under-powered college girl special....sigh....

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#31
flyzardia

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What is panzar? lol


Pretty neat third-person small arena team fighting thing. There's a handful of useful classes but I find it's mostly giant orcs with knockback 1-2 hit skillshot kills and ditsy fairies with perma snare freezes :heehee:
Condemned leader: Flyzardi, Fivriaka, Cabuka, Flyzilla, Not Flyzardi

We die today brothers and sisters, we die crawling from a hundred snares with jet hammers in our necks and and ice shards in our guts. But our war cries will echo through the wasteland! Chota!

#32
KhoRzz

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Sapper ftw.

#33
Maylinh

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Panzar is a fun destraction from FE :elephantdance:
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#34
Twinkle Star

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"Why are you playing FE? Maybe because russians dont have games? ahahaha poor russians!"

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#35
Syrinx Saldana

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So there is pretty much no reason to come back to FE after taking a 9 month break?

Got ya.
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#36
LilRedhare

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Ok..let me put this idea out there, one I'm borrowing from Crispy and Groans...On a bi-weekly basis, we host a meet outside LA or somewhere the fps is good. We have veteran players like Groans, Shiu, Dy and Karter act as "refs" and coaches. Other established players like Crispy, Kuki, Ebaloff, Madsideswipe, and Scrubba act as captains. The rest of us go into the pool. Captains pick 6-player teams and we play "pick-up" ball. The coaches use that opportunity to pass on knowledge, give advice, and..well...coach! This will not only educate the less experienced PvP population, but also bring more respect into the PvP community, as we come to know and respect each other. I may be fishing here, but is this workable?

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#37
Syrinx Saldana

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Sadly wouldn't be totally workable due to the captains picking their favorite/best people possible to steam roll the others, after all no-one likes ot loose even if it's in the name of training. We did it similar on the trav side about 18 months ago and one side pretty much always steam rolled teh other side well before any learning could be done.

Also for it to work all teams would need voice comms to get cross healing and tactics down, that is one of, if not the, most important things to being good at FE pvp. Calling targets, calling heals and if you go down letting others know rapidly and simply..that and the usually pvp banter and cussing eachother out.
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#38
AgentNoir

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Ok..let me put this idea out there, one I'm borrowing from Crispy and Groans...On a bi-weekly basis, we host a meet outside LA or somewhere the fps is good. We have veteran players like Groans, Shiu, Dy and Karter act as "refs" and coaches. Other established players like Crispy, Kuki, Ebaloff, Madsideswipe, and Scrubba act as captains. The rest of us go into the pool. Captains pick 6-player teams and we play "pick-up" ball. The coaches use that opportunity to pass on knowledge, give advice, and..well...coach! This will not only educate the less experienced PvP population, but also bring more respect into the PvP community, as we come to know and respect each other. I may be fishing here, but is this workable?

Grumps is about as veteran as chrispy actually, if that is 'veteran'.

And this has been done before as gap has brought up....it has never panned out.

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#39
Scrubb

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The idea has been brought out plenty, it would be fun if people would actually come out and play.

#40
Reaps989

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The idea has been brought out plenty, it would be fun if people would actually come out and play.


I have no issues with it, as long as peeps refrain from making fights 1 sided. Isn't hard to know when teams are stacked to hell just from first glance lol
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