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#41
Alvaro Early

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Suits have passies icons (ranged has little thunder, medic blue eye) but its only 5 seconds so hardly to notice.

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#42
Reaps989

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Adding this to the thread...

Sonic AoE DoT takes 2 casts of Preservation to dispel, yet I can dispel every other DoT with 1 cast of Preservation 8. This is true with any rank and needs to be fixed. Rank 5+ also dispels it in 2 casts, it should be dispeled in 1 cast of rank 5+ of preservation as it's a god damn AoE.

Not sure what it is with these AoE's, but an AoE should never take more time to dispel than a single target ability.

Edit : Update - All ranks of preservation take 2 cast when casted on rank 7 Rending Vibration.

Edited by Reaps989, 04 February 2013 - 10:52 AM.

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#43
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  • Soften 'Em Up under HW : Needs to have a longer duration or CD reduced, when the hell has anyone used it? That and it uses far to much stamina.


I use it whenever its on cooldown, actually. Its typically the reason why half my team suddenly dies, someone crossed my shot when I was casting it (Usually Fly XD) instead of hitting one of your men, lol. I find its cooldown acceptable for the amount of stam it uses, running it all the time would be disasterous for any form of strategy.

I have also been abusing the fact that Caltrops cannot be dispelled. I'm actually more surprised this hasnt been fixed yet. I think basically everyone who PVPs abused the fact that Average Snare Grenades couldnt be dispelled for the longest time either, though. Im undecided if this is a perk or not since HW is more a support weapon than a direct burst weapon.

Yes, HW needs to be put back onto Equalizer. It was before so I dont know what they did to screw it up and take it off again.


Vital Osmosis is my second most used heal. "No one uses it" is silly, its the best fast acting group heal I have when Im looking at a situation where my team is about to break up in every direction and I can only follow some of them for primary heal focus. Its not GREAT, but it has its uses and a LONGER cooldown greatly upsets me. I'll take a hit on how much it heals for if I can use it faster, but the changes being proposed are still making me want to drop Nano completely. let the PvE players have it, it looks like PvP is being pushed for FA/Empathy anyway.

So is everyone testing at the 55 spectrum?

Is anyone, yanno, checking out the S2 ranges and seeing how these changes are going to screw with the new players? (I dont have a low level toon for the area)

As usual, the PTS is up when Im at work :/
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#44
AlexDelazorra

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imho Denial needs to be turned down a LOT.
thwarted intention needs to be turned down a little.

the rest kinda makes sense imho.

D&W is broken tho. Doesn't work as advertised at all.
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#45
AroSei

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imho Denial needs to be turned down a LOT.
thwarted intention needs to be turned down a little.

the rest kinda makes sense imho.

D&W is broken tho. Doesn't work as advertised at all.


Currently Looking at Thwarted Intention and Denial

Duck and Weave has been fixed.

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#46
AlexDelazorra

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Sonic DoT doesn't show who hit you and it doesn't show an icon that you've got the DoT on you (2nd part seems to be fixed).

Preservation gets it away at the 2nd try. But if you're hit again with the DoT right after, you will only need to use Preservation for 1 time after that. I get that as a repeatable result.

Edited by AlexDelazorra, 04 February 2013 - 12:52 PM.

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#47
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after some testing I agree with some ppl that Sonic Lance is a bit to strong too, maybe nerf it 10-15% and make it an ON-HIT skill like kneecap/dirty steel/agonizing wound/incendiary strike
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#48
AlexDelazorra

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Endless Reserves is worthless.
40 sta+ga is around 10% each, for 25% health.... no way.
For 7% hp maybe, but imho not even then.

Trade Endless Reserves for 1 offensive skill using psionic or electric damage!

Meditation on the other hand might be a bit too OP at +15% mutation dmg if a group uses a lot of sonic (which at the current stats is likely to happen). So either +10% max. or not for the whole team but just the individual.
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#49
Reaps989

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I use it whenever its on cooldown, actually. Its typically the reason why half my team suddenly dies, someone crossed my shot when I was casting it (Usually Fly XD) instead of hitting one of your men, lol. I find its cooldown acceptable for the amount of stam it uses, running it all the time would be disasterous for any form of strategy.

I have also been abusing the fact that Caltrops cannot be dispelled. I'm actually more surprised this hasnt been fixed yet. I think basically everyone who PVPs abused the fact that Average Snare Grenades couldnt be dispelled for the longest time either, though. Im undecided if this is a perk or not since HW is more a support weapon than a direct burst weapon.

Yes, HW needs to be put back onto Equalizer. It was before so I dont know what they did to screw it up and take it off again.


Vital Osmosis is my second most used heal. "No one uses it" is silly, its the best fast acting group heal I have when Im looking at a situation where my team is about to break up in every direction and I can only follow some of them for primary heal focus. Its not GREAT, but it has its uses and a LONGER cooldown greatly upsets me. I'll take a hit on how much it heals for if I can use it faster, but the changes being proposed are still making me want to drop Nano completely. let the PvE players have it, it looks like PvP is being pushed for FA/Empathy anyway.

So is everyone testing at the 55 spectrum?

Is anyone, yanno, checking out the S2 ranges and seeing how these changes are going to screw with the new players? (I dont have a low level toon for the area)

As usual, the PTS is up when Im at work :/



Well to make it simple, Sonic is the new lowbe killer. We need it to be toned down especially if we factor in illumination ontop of Sonic's AoE power.
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#50
AgentNoir

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I use it whenever its on cooldown, actually. Its typically the reason why half my team suddenly dies, someone crossed my shot when I was casting it (Usually Fly XD) instead of hitting one of your men, lol. I find its cooldown acceptable for the amount of stam it uses, running it all the time would be disasterous for any form of strategy.

I have also been abusing the fact that Caltrops cannot be dispelled. I'm actually more surprised this hasnt been fixed yet. I think basically everyone who PVPs abused the fact that Average Snare Grenades couldnt be dispelled for the longest time either, though. Im undecided if this is a perk or not since HW is more a support weapon than a direct burst weapon.

Yes, HW needs to be put back onto Equalizer. It was before so I dont know what they did to screw it up and take it off again.


Vital Osmosis is my second most used heal. "No one uses it" is silly, its the best fast acting group heal I have when Im looking at a situation where my team is about to break up in every direction and I can only follow some of them for primary heal focus. Its not GREAT, but it has its uses and a LONGER cooldown greatly upsets me. I'll take a hit on how much it heals for if I can use it faster, but the changes being proposed are still making me want to drop Nano completely. let the PvE players have it, it looks like PvP is being pushed for FA/Empathy anyway.

So is everyone testing at the 55 spectrum?

Is anyone, yanno, checking out the S2 ranges and seeing how these changes are going to screw with the new players? (I dont have a low level toon for the area)

As usual, the PTS is up when Im at work :/

Caltrops can't be dispelled due to its effect level and investment needed...plus its 5 seconds and 35%, requires investment and uses resources and has an actual cooldown...average snare nades were 15 seconds, 5 second cooldown, 50%, no investment needed and took no resources. Plus hw requires 2 opposing stats...1 being borderline worthless...and requires the max investment.

Filtration is still the best thing in nano but aoewise vital osmosis is the most efficient. Whenever I played support it was filtration all day...especially when u get down...it becomes so clutch and strong.



@Alex/baz

Sonic lance really isn't that bad...the gamma cost hurts it dramatically. And it's aimed as is...just needs to be toggable when its on cd(maybe)...making it on hit would be awkward but might be ok as long as it could NOT crit.

Edited by AgentNoir, 04 February 2013 - 06:22 PM.

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#51
Reaps989

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Caltrops can't be dispelled due to its effect level and investment needed...plus its 5 seconds and 35%, requires investment and uses resources and has an actual cooldown...average snare nades were 15 seconds, 5 second cooldown, 50%, no investment needed and took no resources. Plus hw requires 2 opposing stats...1 being borderline worthless...and requires the max investment.

Filtration is still the best thing in nano but aoewise vital osmosis is the most efficient. Whenever I played support it was filtration all day...especially when u get down...it becomes so clutch and strong.



Vital Osmosis needs to be reverted to what it was, or use the idea I posted in this thread.
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#52
AgentNoir

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Vital Osmosis needs to be reverted to what it was, or use the idea I posted in this thread.

Ohh agreed not disputing that at all.

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#53
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What is wrong with Vital Osmosis? In November, it would heal everyone in the cone. It should only be healing teammates in the cone now, like it was previously. And it still has the lower cast time and bigger heal numbers. I'm not sure I'm understanding the problem with it currently. Can you please elaborate? And we did see the other thread about your suggestion, but right now I'm just trying to nail down the perception of the current PTS version of the ability.
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#54
Oratho

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The problem with this ability that I see is that the cooldown doesn't allow it to be a gameplay defining ability, but the delivery method is gameplay defining. Basically, it's not available often enough to play your character with cone-effects in mind, but cone effects require such specific positioning that you have to play with cone effects in mind if you want the best use out of it.

If it was simply a big radius around yourself you wouldn't have to think much to use it, you'd just see that your team is in trouble, lots of people very hurt, fire it off, heal them all, 2 minute cooldown. As a cone AoE though you need to run a fair bit away from the group, position yourself to catch as many of them as possible, then fire it off. Of course that can be done, but the positioning your have to adopt to make it work doesn't synergize with any of your other abilities. If you had a character that was gameplay defined by cone attacks and you'd have Vital Osmosis in there I'm sure it would be much better received, since that would be a natural extension of what that character does. If you need to change up what you're doing on a moment to moment basis with your character to use an ability with a long cooldown it's very easy to be disappointed by it, even if on paper it's perfectly useful, just because it felt like the extra work to bring it to bear didn't justify the effect.



A really well designed skill should contain abilities that synergize with each other, and define your gameplay that way. Nanomanipulation's core gameplay is to basically add a "healing rifle" to your character, which can be used either like you'd use a shotgun, or like you'd use a sniper rifle.

If I were to redesign Vital Osmosis I'd change it so that it doesn't have its own effect at all, it just gives your next Filtration cast a 5 meter radius AoE around the initial target that hits teammates. That way it just flows naturally into whatever you're doing anyways, whether you're in the thick of it healing short range or you're hanging back sniper-healing from well out of the action. Every 2 minutes you just get a supercharged Filtration.

Edited by Oratho, 06 February 2013 - 09:12 AM.


#55
Reaps989

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What is wrong with Vital Osmosis? In November, it would heal everyone in the cone. It should only be healing teammates in the cone now, like it was previously. And it still has the lower cast time and bigger heal numbers. I'm not sure I'm understanding the problem with it currently. Can you please elaborate? And we did see the other thread about your suggestion, but right now I'm just trying to nail down the perception of the current PTS version of the ability.



Vital Osmosis during the last PTS when you asked us to check S3 suits was a 2 minute cooldown timer. That was infact the issue, if this was fixed then we have no issues :D

In the post it does state the cooldown was 2 minutes on the PTS, I'll log in again in just a moment to see if it's still 2 minutes on it's cooldown timer.

Edit : It is still 120 second cooldown, on live it's 30 seconds... That's the issue.

The healing was increased by 128 to 200 for rank 7 but the cooldown was increased by 4x. That means you increased direct healing by 57% but decreased it's HPS.

Current live V.O. Rank 7 = 128 or 512 in 2 minutes (Well, alittle over 2 minutes
PTS V.O. Rank 7 = 200 healing in 2 minutes...

Direct healing = +57%
HPS = Almost 61% less

Edit : I did notice it is no longer a cone AoE and heals all members within 30 meters. Rather than a cone AoE, which is much better. But I still rather have the old verision if I was pumping out over twice the HPS to a team. While this does improve it's overall effectiveness without having to worry about LoS constantly. Still a two minute cooldown however.

If it was a 1 minute cooldown this would mean it would have lost 56 healing, which would have been reasonable. Especially since you'd have to choose when to use this heal. Along with using Revitalize while it's down.

Edited by Reaps989, 08 February 2013 - 07:07 PM.

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#56
Oratho

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If it's no longer a cone AoE I don't really see a problem with it. In fact it's very powerful if you can just hit it to get your team out of trouble, and a 2 minute cooldown is perfectly appropriate.

I'd still prefer if it was directly tied to Filtration, because that would give it total synergy.

Edited by Oratho, 09 February 2013 - 09:28 AM.


#57
Reaps989

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If it's no longer a cone AoE I don't really see a problem with it. In fact it's very powerful if you can just hit it to get your team out of trouble, and a 2 minute cooldown is perfectly appropriate.

I'd still prefer if it was directly tied to Filtration, because that would give it total synergy.


Even if it doesn't require to aim via cone Oratho. It's the fact if you were good before, you could get 512 for each player you hit every 2 minutes. Now you can heal yourself for 200 and every player for 200 every 2 minutes.

Nano didn't need a "self" heal, while it is nice the fact is that it's CD is far to long.
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#58
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Even if it doesn't require to aim via cone Oratho. It's the fact if you were good before, you could get 512 for each player you hit every 2 minutes. Now you can heal yourself for 200 and every player for 200 every 2 minutes.

Nano didn't need a "self" heal, while it is nice the fact is that it's CD is far to long.

This...a 2 min cooldown on a average heal thats team based is silly. 45 seconds would suit it better. No reason to nerf a fairly underused line as is.

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#59
Reaps989

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This...a 2 min cooldown on a average heal thats team based is silly. 45 seconds would suit it better. No reason to nerf a fairly underused line as is.


Exactly
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#60
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I would like to see Primal Vigor be less damaging to one's gamma reserves at higher levels. Perhaps even see the debuff split into half gamma and half stamina (Eg. instead of 50% gamma, 25% gamma and 25% stamina).

#61
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I would like to see Primal Vigor be less damaging to one's gamma reserves at higher levels. Perhaps even see the debuff split into half gamma and half stamina (Eg. instead of 50% gamma, 25% gamma and 25% stamina).

What they could do is have it scale lower per rank so it's more appealing. 3% per rank or so.

Although another thing they could do is fix rampage. Rampage is a skill that has a buff and a debuff then it has an extreme percentage resource cost. So not only are you playing the risk vs reward game the risk vs reward game has a cost on it. Making it not worth using unless you are going for a hail mary buff(no resources...low on health or just low on resources and trying to end it). If they removed the % cost rampage would be a good skill and the main reason is the benefit is the buff and the penalty/cost is the debuff allowing for risk and reward. The resource cost is just an excessive tax on it that makes it a skill that you only use in extreme conditions.

The buff on the health to attack dmg skill makes that good to use.

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#62
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imo the AOE snares and heals should affect EVERYONE in the area of affect, friends, enemies, team mates, raid members. EVERYONE! You're already fighting a team more then likely which means you're probably out numbered as it is anyway. unless you're trying to promote the furball/headless chicken dance?

if that's the case then why not just go ahead and change grenades so they don't affect your team too, heck change rocket launchers too while you're at it, seeing as how hard it is to hit anyone with that master weapon, hell while we're at it get rid of that pesky friendly fire thing, it's such a nuisance for a full raid when you're trying to roll over ppl after all. better yet there should be an ability that auto targets your enemy for you! you could have it default key map to tab, since the F keys are already used to auto target your team for heals and all....

yeah. just what this game needs more abilities that don't require player skill to use. at least make them weigh the benefit vs risk before popping off an AOE.

#63
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imo the AOE snares and heals should affect EVERYONE in the area of affect, friends, enemies, team mates, raid members. EVERYONE! You're already fighting a team more then likely which means you're probably out numbered as it is anyway. unless you're trying to promote the furball/headless chicken dance?

if that's the case then why not just go ahead and change grenades so they don't affect your team too, heck change rocket launchers too while you're at it, seeing as how hard it is to hit anyone with that master weapon, hell while we're at it get rid of that pesky friendly fire thing, it's such a nuisance for a full raid when you're trying to roll over ppl after all. better yet there should be an ability that auto targets your enemy for you! you could have it default key map to tab, since the F keys are already used to auto target your team for heals and all....

yeah. just what this game needs more abilities that don't require player skill to use. at least make them weigh the benefit vs risk before popping off an AOE.


Except for the fact HPS is always less then DPS, you can always kill someone faster than anyone can heal someone. Not to mention V.O. is the only AoE heal in the entire game and even with a 30s cooldown on live it's never used outside of PVE or very very rare cases in PVP. While I could understand if V.O. was able to be "spammed", which it is not even remotely able to be spammed even if it's CD was reduced to 45s, the power itself is not gamechanging. Not to mention this skill requires a large investment, needs to be used at the right time, and still requires LoS of your target within 30m. Let's not forget the previous version was able to be used effectively on 5+ targets from 80m as it had infinite range.

Damaging skills "should" hit friendlies, which has been addressed outside of Patho-Trans. However, Nano-Manipulation doesn't need yet another reason not to use this line.

That and I'm sick of how underused Nano-Manipulation is, there's a reason I've been sent hate tells for "Cooldown hacks" and "Infinite Healing". It's from filtration along every other heal in the bloody game, while I have had maybe 5 instances since all factions could use every mutation/skill where V.O. saved anything in PVP.

So i will agree all snares/damage skills should hit players, but there is no reason for V.O. to hit non-team members. You'd be surprised how little you even see it's mutation line in PVP, the most common I'd say would be Heretic, Unity, and I think a few random "Medic" players that were inspired by my build on Nysek.

Also... please note the description of Nano-Manipulation, there is no reason it wouldn't beable to be programed to only heal team members. That and filtration already requires more skill than any other heal in the game while having the highest risks.

Edited by Reaps989, 13 February 2013 - 06:53 PM.

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#64
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Except for the fact HPS is always less then DPS, you can always kill someone faster than anyone can heal someone. Not to mention V.O. is the only AoE heal in the entire game and even with a 30s cooldown on live it's never used outside of PVE or very very rare cases in PVP. While I could understand if V.O. was able to be "spammed", which it is not even remotely able to be spammed even if it's CD was reduced to 45s, the power itself is not gamechanging. Not to mention this skill requires a large investment, needs to be used at the right time, and still requires LoS of your target within 30m. Let's not forget the previous version was able to be used effectively on 5+ targets from 80m as it had infinite range.

Damaging skills "should" hit friendlies, which has been addressed outside of Patho-Trans. However, Nano-Manipulation doesn't need yet another reason not to use this line.

That and I'm sick of how underused Nano-Manipulation is, there's a reason I've been sent hate tells for "Cooldown hacks" and "Infinite Healing". It's from filtration along every other heal in the bloody game, while I have had maybe 5 instances since all factions could use every mutation/skill where V.O. saved anything in PVP.

So i will agree all snares/damage skills should hit players, but there is no reason for V.O. to hit non-team members. You'd be surprised how little you even see it's mutation line in PVP, the most common I'd say would be Heretic, Unity, and I think a few random "Medic" players that were inspired by my build on Nysek.

Also... please note the description of Nano-Manipulation, there is no reason it wouldn't beable to be programed to only heal team members. That and filtration already requires more skill than any other heal in the game while having the highest risks.

Agreed I run nano on my support toon and i'd only use the res and filtration.

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#65
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think you should add one more rank to Duck and Weave @ 195 skill and 25% stamina poll cost. That would make it more viable.

Primal line is still horrible and will not gonna be used in Pvp by smart players. Should still do complete revamp of it. I am sure it looks fun on paper, but it's just useless in pvp or pve for that matter. 225 health for 50% gamma poll is a joke, and why would you spend more health then you would do damage? Unless you are the best pvp player on your team, and you have 2 pocket healers just non stop healing you, witch is unlikely.

Thwarted Intention reduces healing done to the target by 40% for 15 secs (60 sec cd) to op imo. It's gonna be mandatory for pvp players to rotate it to take down targets. Just armor debuff and "mortal strike" the best player on other team, and he goes down in seconds... not fun. It's not fun to be primary target as it is (one of the reasons i don't play anymore) this is just take to another level... We all know the shot callers and healers, and best damage dealers that need to die 1st, it's just gonna take fun out of pvp...

Edited by Ganji, 17 February 2013 - 07:14 AM.

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#66
Reaps989

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think you should add one more rank to Duck and Weave @ 195 skill and 25% stamina poll cost. That would make it more viable.

Primal line is still horrible and will not gonna be used in Pvp by smart players. Should still do complete revamp of it. I am sure it looks fun on paper, but it's just useless in pvp or pve for that matter. 225 health for 50% gamma poll is a joke, and why would you spend more health then you would do damage? Unless you are the best pvp player on your team, and you have 2 pocket healers just non stop healing you, witch is unlikely.

Thwarted Intention reduces healing done to the target by 40% for 15 secs (60 sec cd) to op imo. It's gonna be mandatory for pvp players to rotate it to take down targets. Just armor debuff and "mortal strike" the best player on other team, and he goes down in seconds... not fun. It's not fun to be primary target as it is (one of the reasons i don't play anymore) this is just take to another level... We all know the shot callers and healers, and best damage dealers that need to die 1st, it's just gonna take fun out of pvp...


Agreed, I'd perfer if they scrapped Thwarted Intentions personally... or at least reduce the amount debuffed. Mostly since Social, which will take up alot of AP only increases healing by 25% max yet has no other benefits while Thwarted Intention is 40%. while also still being under suppression's line-up.

Easy fix...

Thwarted Intention : Moved to Patho, max healing reduction reduced to 30% not 40%. Remove "Wracking Pains" to finish this change.

Suppression : Bring back ze Stamina drain.


Dodge's stam cost was already reduced, it was Primal that still needs to be fixed. However, it should scale down to -25% gamma as it still is a huge HP buffer. (Without being a stance no less)

Let's not forget Rampage which already has a debuff (-x power/precision/primary armor) but eats 50% of your stamina...

Edited by Reaps989, 17 February 2013 - 08:09 AM.

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#67
Ganji

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also I'd like to say that i really liked the contingency plan concept that we had in last combat build. Think few lines feel still empty and there would be room to add some of those back. Just the whole concept was fun, when you engage the fight, you pop contingency plan that you need.

The one i miss the most is social one, that buffed up team stam/gamma regen for 30 secs(60 sec cd). That was one of the things that made social special and fun to use.
Also group tactics could use 1 imo. So group tactics would feel like group tactics. I'd say give group tactics temp save buff or armor buff.

It's all debatable, but i would love to see some more buttons back in the game. Ofc vanilla fallen earth with 40-60 skills was overkill (still was fun) but atm there is definitely not to many skills to use atm.

Edited by Ganji, 17 February 2013 - 08:47 AM.

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#68
AgentNoir

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also I'd like to say that i really liked the contingency plan concept that we had in last combat build. Think few lines feel still empty and there would be room to add some of those back. Just the whole concept was fun, when you engage the fight, you pop contingency plan that you need.

The one i miss the most is social one, that buffed up team stam/gamma regen for 30 secs(60 sec cd). That was one of the things that made social special and fun to use.
Also group tactics could use 1 imo. So group tactics would feel like group tactics. I'd say give group tactics temp save buff or armor buff.

It's all debatable, but i would love to see some more buttons back in the game. Ofc vanilla fallen earth with 40-60 skills was overkill (still was fun) but atm there is definitely not to many skills to use atm.

To be fair it only had so many buttons due to the min skill on every line and due to how some stuff stacked etc, but mainly the min skill.

Although myself I liked the old skill setup in general if they added more skill prim/secs and removed/reduced the mutation prim/sec debuff. Also...missing consuming stats was good. Although that's old and passed.


Although the main thing with the new debuffs...there should be counters! Dispels that can remove those otherwise they are pretty much autowins. Reduce dmg...gg nonfactor dmg time...reduce healing...time to die.

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#69
Reaps989

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To be fair it only had so many buttons due to the min skill on every line and due to how some stuff stacked etc, but mainly the min skill.

Although myself I liked the old skill setup in general if they added more skill prim/secs and removed/reduced the mutation prim/sec debuff. Also...missing consuming stats was good. Although that's old and passed.


Although the main thing with the new debuffs...there should be counters! Dispels that can remove those otherwise they are pretty much autowins. Reduce dmg...gg nonfactor dmg time...reduce healing...time to die.


Yup
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#70
BurgerKun

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