[Downlink]

What were the arguments for decreasing ttk and adding recoil to weapons? I wasn't around for the rtw->g1 transition. I come from an fps gaming background (cs), and recoil is nothing new, but in a GTA style game like this? 3rd person shooter, makes little sense to me.

Help me understand.

[Revoluzzer]

I think recoil was a great addition to the gameplay. It adds another, rather skill-based element.

Decreasing the TTK, however, was not. It simply makes scoring a kill easy.

[BirryMays]

The only argument G1 gave us (still waiting on that write-up about why low TTK is better Qwentle) is that it makes the game easier for noobs. However, the noobs have it harder now because all of the vets know where to set up, making noobs die a lot more, and a lot faster. The increased spawn time just seems to rub it in.

[specialgirlxoxo]

there was a huge gap between the best players and the good players in rtw
with the new ttk theres not much different between most high tl players

imo it really ruins alot of the game, you can never rush a corner no matter how noob your opposition is. in rtw you could get away with alot more

This post has been edited by specialgirlxoxo: 18 April 2012 - 12:41 PM

[Kasrai]

specialgirlxoxo, on 18 April 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

there was a huge gap between the best players and the good players in rtw
with the new ttk theres not much different between most high tl players

imo it really ruins alot of the game, you can never rush a corner no matter how noob your opposition is. in rtw you could get away with alot more

You could play carelessly and still win in the RTW version? Sounds about right, which makes the TTK change good.

People should stop playing like bads just because the opposition is bronze/silver and then complaining when they lose using the lowered TTK as an excuse.

[Stepcore]

Kasrai, on 18 April 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

You could play carelessly and still win in the RTW version? Sounds about right, which makes the TTK change good.

You could never play carelessly, if you rushed blindly you'd still die just the same. The TTK just fit the game better, you didn't get killed by random luck as often. Teamplay was a lot more necessary too. There are a lot of reasons why the old TTK fit the game better and not enough reasons why the new one does.
The only reason I've heard is that for some people it feels better and that it makes it easier for noobs. From a competitive standpoint, the new TTK is absolute Bullsh!t.
The recoil was a welcome addition however. There was also more recoil on some weapons in RTW.

This post has been edited by TheSpore: 18 April 2012 - 03:25 PM

[specialgirlxoxo]

Kasrai, on 18 April 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

You could play carelessly and still win in the RTW version? Sounds about right, which makes the TTK change good.

People should stop playing like bads just because the opposition is bronze/silver and then complaining when they lose using the lowered TTK as an excuse.

it is alot harder/less noob friendly to hit shots for a longer ttk than it is to twitch out 5 joker shots or 5 obeya shots. thats why rtw was more skillful

[BrianRolling]

Using Kevlar 3 seems to work the ttk thing quite nicely for me. Then again, I'm familiar with its limits. So I can't imagine anyone who is use to taking advantage of the normal speed be good with it. Like the Shaw, it requires a unique type of play.

[proxie]

All RTW veterans that were actually good wants the old TTK...

[Cingal]

The TTK definitely needs increasing.

The game is not a twitch shooter, we're not playing UT3 here, we don't need weapons that kill people faster than they can react.

[Jaani]

In my opinion, recoil is an absolute necessity, but if TTK was higher, given the way weapons work right now, long range combat would be a drag, its already hard enough to kill a cornerhumper without an OBIR or HVR... I think it would work for all the close range weapons though.

...

Actually that would work pretty well. There's no reason you should use a long range weapon in close range, so the 'still lower' TTK won't matter as much, but you won't be able to faceroll 4 noobs in literally under 3 seconds if you surprise them with an OCA. If all the weapons had say a 30-40% increase or something, they'd still be the same relative power.

The only issue would be the STAR, N-TEC and SHAW, they should probably get a TTK boost too but not as much. The shaw especially, and its not like it would nerf it because you could just put cooling jacket on it (which as of now is useless). ALIG is fine cause that's not really too good on players to start with.

[Coreldan]

I personally enjoy the current game much more than RTW APB.

[8BITPiercingFiend]

Recoli added a bit of skill when it coems to controling your rate of fire etc. A welcome change.

The lower TTK was random and said it would help noobs......makes me think did they even play the game. Noobs die so fast now its crazy.

[Liger]

The recoil made the game much better in my opinion.

The lowered TTK however, is one the reasons I hardly ever play this game now. It'd be nice if they changed it back since because districts are now seperated on threat, the old problem of newbs getting roflstomped is more or less gone.

[Scylenser]

Revoluzzer, on 18 April 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

I think recoil was a great addition to the gameplay. It adds another, rather skill-based element.

Yeah random left/right recoil really drove up the skill cap of the SHAW, M-I-Rite?

I'm not against recoil, but if the choices going forward are either the M1922 or SHAW-esque, "The Recoil is the weapon!", I'd rather just have spread and effective range be the major limiting factor for weapon range/accuracy.

[broke™]

Going back to old TTK would only result in.
- more dancing
- more using mobile supply kit
- more dancing
- more lemmings
- more dancing

Especially with the recoil it will just turn into scrubs dancing around in the middle of the street emptying their clips without actually hitting eachother much. As much this isn't a problem for skilled players, it would ruin the experience for newbies.

With current TTK anyone with half a brain quickly figures out this isn't Quake, and some foretought is required when getting into a firefight rather than having a dance-off.

[proxie]

I liked the game even without the recoil, just as much. It's hart to say now though as it was such a long time ago and its basically impossible to compare it. But i know i liked it.

Just because the game has recoild doesn't raise the skill cap or anything. Quake and such games work just fine without recoil. Even 1.6 in a way. I know there is recoil, but it's not random and people just learned the patern. And those 2 games are the biggest fps esports ever.

So, is recoil really a must for anything but a war simulator? Not really. Not when there is accuracy degrade at the same time.

But with this really unfitting TTK it's a must, unfortunally.

[Schneider]

Please up the TTK again, with the balmy servers and the low TTK I sometimes get instakilled or from what my client displays as 3 hits from an N-Tec. I got 60-75fps and 60-90ms latency.
There are so many what-the-gosh darn moments right now. Increased TTK would make the impact of balmy servers less apparent.

This post has been edited by Schneider: 21 April 2012 - 04:14 AM

[Locnlol]

Scylenser, on 21 April 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

Yeah random left/right recoil really drove up the skill cap of the SHAW, M-I-Rite?

Yeah... the real problem here is the 'random'. One time you're going to shoot at a guy 50m, and the gun wont nudge for 20 shots, another time you take 3 shots at a guy 30m away and suddenly you're not even facing him anymore... and trying to 'correct' is as likely to make it worse as not. Very frustrating mechanism.

This post has been edited by Locnlol: 21 April 2012 - 05:11 AM

[Revoluzzer]

Scylenser, on 21 April 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

Yeah random left/right recoil really drove up the skill cap of the SHAW, M-I-Rite?

I'm not against recoil, but if the choices going forward are either the M1922 or SHAW-esque, "The Recoil is the weapon!", I'd rather just have spread and effective range be the major limiting factor for weapon range/accuracy.

I can handle both weapons perfectly fine. Although it's random, you can still see where your crosshair is moving and counter it. For me, this simply became intuitive movement after a day or two.


Replacing "random" recoil with predictable recoil would only support macros.